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  • Originally posted by turquoisepassion View Post
    Calling graycat's opinions "disgusting" -zoebird, pro -"acceptance"
    Check your facts.

    I used the term "disgust" twice in my statements -- both were "treating someone (who is fat) with disgust." I was characterizing (rightly based on the posts) the behavior. I did not say that the behavior was "disgusting." I asserted how and why it was problematic behavior.

    So before you go throwing around false accusations -- check it. I can quote both of my posts that use the word "disgust" if you would like.

    Did derp, laz, hanna, graycat, or I actually once personally call someone specific fat or some other abusive name on this thread?
    No, not to my knowledge.

    That being said, there's a big difference between accepting a human being as they are (because you don't know what is up with them at all) vs ascribing a bunch of meaning to them as human beings (which may include seeing and/or treating them with disgust) because of their body presentation. That could be any number of factors in terms of presentation that leads to this behavior -- the person's manner of dress, race, size, body modifications, disabilities/abilities, etc.

    To be sure, I haven't been reading your posts, hannah's or derp"s. I read Laz's because it was interesting and I look for his posts. I don't think that his perspective is per se problematic, just that certain communications are interesting to engage.

    And I was pretty straight forward and clear in my posts. I don't see the "fat acceptance" movement as being about normalizing being fat as per se healthy. Instead, in my long experience with the movement, it's trying to get people to stop ascribing attributes to people based on body size. I think this is fair enough.

    Again, I have no problem talking about the issues that are related to obesity and such in our society. But I think that we can do this without holding people in contempt.
    Last edited by zoebird; 12-30-2013, 09:43 AM.

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    • Plus-Size Barbie

      Aw leida. :/

      I sound southern, not Asian when I speak now but I still get the "where are you from...(me: Austin Texas) ... No where are you REALLY from?" Crap.
      Last edited by turquoisepassion; 12-30-2013, 09:48 AM.
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      HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

      My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


      Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

      " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

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      • Originally posted by turquoisepassion View Post
        Aw leida. :/

        I sound southern, not Asian when I speak now but I still get the "where are you from...(me: Austin Texas) ... No where are you REALLY from?" Crap.
        Here is a perfect example of ascribing meaning to a body.

        A person sees your race and assumes you are "really" from somewhere else, rather than Texas. How frustrating that they ascribe false meaning to your body!?

        Can't they just accept you as you are? And when you answer "Texas" -- just accept that? Apparently not. So annoying when they ascribe meaning to your body presentation that isn't accurate.

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        • Plus-Size Barbie

          Originally posted by zoebird View Post
          Here is a perfect example of ascribing meaning to a body.

          A person sees your race and assumes you are "really" from somewhere else, rather than Texas. How frustrating that they ascribe false meaning to your body!?

          Can't they just accept you as you are? And when you answer "Texas" -- just accept that? Apparently not. So annoying when they ascribe meaning to your body presentation that isn't accurate.

          I am sorry... I thought you didn't read my posts? Or did my posts suddenly become interesting overnight?

          Like I said previously I don't really give a shit about private citizens being openly racist. Rather, Even if it bothers me I don't really think advocating for a "solution" is really efficient. I only care if they are complaining about racism and are racist/discriminatory themselves. That is what I find hypocritical.

          We humans find it efficient to judge immediately based on looks. Maybe we are wrong, but it is all the initial information we have.

          As to your prior comment, it must have been someone else calling graycat names. I apologize if it wasn't you. To be honest, I only scan your posts and don't read most of it either. Too full of pseudo-progressive stuff almost everyone I know in law "believes" but don't understand.


          Note: I don't actually call anyone fatty shorty etc. I call myself fat sometimes but that is about it! I just don't see anything fundamentally wrong with others doing so.
          Last edited by turquoisepassion; 12-30-2013, 10:09 AM.
          ------
          HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

          My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


          Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

          " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

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          • I sound southern, not Asian when I speak now but I still get the "where are you from...(me: Austin Texas) ... No where are you REALLY from?" Crap.
            Yeah, same stuff. "No, no, I mean originally?" Very, very few, maybe 1% have the sensitivity to NOT assume that you have misunderstood the question (you can't speak English without an accent, therefore you just don't get it....) At times, I feel like inventing countries to test the IQues. At times, I feel like going with a country in Asia or Africa.

            Oh, yeah, 'I can't place your accent..." is the close second, but that can be easily countered with a mention of accent-reduction courses,
            Last edited by Leida; 12-30-2013, 10:18 AM.
            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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            • Plus-Size Barbie

              Originally posted by Leida View Post
              Yeah, same stuff. "No, no, I mean originally?" Very, very few, maybe 1% have the sensitivity to NOT assume that you have misunderstood the question (you can't speak English without an accent, therefore you just don't get it....)


              Now I just pretend to be dumb and not say anything about my origins just to piss them off.

              I get "Are you mixed??! You look so exotic" and "you look too pretty to be Chinese" (wtFfffffff is that) if I say I am from China so I just say I am from Texas.

              XD
              ------
              HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

              My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


              Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

              " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

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              • I'm coming out of lurk. I first saw this thread last night, and I couldn't believe my eyes. My heart seriously aches reading some of the posts here, and the same kinds of posts in other threads. If one were reading this thread as their first taste of MDA, s/he might think there are no currently heavy members, no black members with the way we are spoken about like we aren't even in the room, and-people-who-just-can't-understand-me-even-though-I'm-posting-alienating-comments.

                As for the thread topic: When I played with Barbies as a young girl (all of them were black, like me), it didn't inform my expectations of what a woman should look like. Barbie didn't look like any living woman I knew, and the woman I did see trying to look like Barbie looked ridiculous in my eyes back then. I feel like adults are projecting the insecurities they've accumulated through other channels of media through that doll, and they are using Barbie as a proxy to try and resolve personal internal demons. A young girl knows the doll isn't a person, it's an anthropomorphic toy that she can give buzz cuts and amputations.

                <resumes lurking>

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                • Plus-Size Barbie

                  I didn't realize racism was just about black and white people... >.>

                  Hopefully I just misunderstood that last comment.

                  Agreed on the Barbie being a fantasy toy though. I played with transformers more than Barbie but I never thought I had to look like my Theresa doll.
                  ------
                  HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                  My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


                  Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                  " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by turquoisepassion View Post
                    Now I just pretend to be dumb and not say anything about my origins just to piss them off.

                    I get "Are you mixed??! You look so exotic" and "you look too pretty to be Chinese" (wtFfffffff is that) if I say I am from China so I just say I am from Texas.

                    XD
                    To be honest, you don't look Han Chinese to me. I've been exposed to Chinese cultures enough to recognize a few things here and there. Are you of a different Chinese ethnicity?

                    The comments about "You're too pretty to be "X" "... I think we are both smart enough to know why someone would even say such nonsense like that to a woman of color. It's not actually a compliment, more of a diss to your perceived origins.

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                    • Plus-Size Barbie

                      Originally posted by Deedly Deedee View Post
                      To be honest, you don't look Han Chinese to me. I've been exposed to Chinese cultures enough to recognize a few things here and there. Are you of a different Chinese ethnicity?

                      The comments about "You're too pretty to be "X" "... I think we are both smart enough to know why someone would even say such nonsense like that to a woman of color. It's not actually a compliment, more of a diss to your perceived origins.
                      Manchurian. I am supposedly part of the Qin dynasty royal family or something so don't you know you are talking to a Z-grade celebrity? Lol

                      Omg so glad the communist revolution happened so I didn't have to go through foot binding.

                      Han isn't the only type of Chinese. There are 56 different Chinese cultures, as you probably know!


                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...roups_in_China

                      I agree it is more of a diss. Hahaha.
                      Last edited by turquoisepassion; 12-30-2013, 10:41 AM.
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                      HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                      My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


                      Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                      " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

                      Comment


                      • Can't they just accept you as you are? And when you answer "Texas" -- just accept that? Apparently not. So annoying when they ascribe meaning to your body presentation that isn't accurate.
                        I think people are often just curious about ethnicity, and it isn't meant to be a mean natured thing to think that someone with an accent/non-white appearance is from somewhere different and to want to know where that place is. It's often just a good place to start a conversation.

                        Getting peeved because someone mocks your weight/language/accent is one thing, but if someone just has a polite curiosity and asks a few too many annoying questions, who cares?

                        http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                        Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                        • Originally posted by turquoisepassion View Post
                          I am sorry... I thought you didn't read my posts? Or did my posts suddenly become interesting overnight?
                          Due to time constraints, I scan most threads, looking for people with whom I have a good experience from prior postings, etc. My experience of you -- until now -- has been neutral, and as your posts were long and I found two others two respond to, I focused on those.

                          While scanning this morning, I saw my name in your post. Thus, I read the post. I checked my own posts to verify the factual nature of your accusation, and then responded.

                          Does this require your animosity? Or is it common sense that a person to speak up for themselves when they are specifically called out?

                          I have very little experience of you prior, but now you read very whiny -- someone who complains about being attacked while attacking people. So, it's unlikely that I'll take you very seriously in the future.

                          As to your prior comment, it must have been someone else calling graycat names. I apologize if it wasn't you. To be honest, I only scan your posts and don't read most of it either. Too full of pseudo-progressive stuff almost everyone I know in law "believes" but don't understand.
                          I find it ironic that you are calling people out for calling names and such, falsely accuse me, sort-of apologize for it, and then insinuate that I don't understand my own postulations because of your prejudice (it's "pseudo progressive.").

                          Pretty intellectually lazy. You could go back and read the posts, for example, since you felt the need to call me out. And then apologize from a place of knowledge and sincerity. And then you could do so without attacking me.

                          Note: I don't actually call anyone fatty shorty etc. I call myself fat sometimes but that is about it! I just don't see anything fundamentally wrong with others doing so.
                          Missing the point. This isn't about calling people names or fat. This is about ascribing meaning to certain attributes -- a perfect example was your own experience -- and how that can negatively impact that individual in relation other individuals, as well as to society and culture.

                          I'm thinking that you are projecting in this "lack of understanding" business.

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                          • Plus-Size Barbie

                            Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                            Due to time constraints, I scan most threads, looking for people with whom I have a good experience from prior postings, etc. My experience of you -- until now -- has been neutral, and as your posts were long and I found two others two respond to, I focused on those.

                            While scanning this morning, I saw my name in your post. Thus, I read the post. I checked my own posts to verify the factual nature of your accusation, and then responded.

                            Does this require your animosity? Or is it common sense that a person to speak up for themselves when they are specifically called out?

                            I have very little experience of you prior, but now you read very whiny -- someone who complains about being attacked while attacking people. So, it's unlikely that I'll take you very seriously in the future.



                            I find it ironic that you are calling people out for calling names and such, falsely accuse me, sort-of apologize for it, and then insinuate that I don't understand my own postulations because of your prejudice (it's "pseudo progressive.").

                            Pretty intellectually lazy. You could go back and read the posts, for example, since you felt the need to call me out. And then apologize from a place of knowledge and sincerity. And then you could do so without attacking me.



                            Missing the point. This isn't about calling people names or fat. This is about ascribing meaning to certain attributes -- a perfect example was your own experience -- and how that can negatively impact that individual in relation other individuals, as well as to society and culture.

                            I'm thinking that you are projecting in this "lack of understanding" business.


                            Omg zoebird. I am laughing. Who is creating "animosity" now?

                            "Intellectually lazy" "whiny"...

                            I don't need to read other posts because you did indeed just name-call. If I was falsely accusing you before, I am no longer doing so.

                            Also I am posting "for the lols" and am not whining about being attacked! Forums are filled with attacks and life is filled with attacks.

                            I was noting your hypocrisy for preaching acceptance while using personal attacks. If that is whining, then okay.
                            Last edited by turquoisepassion; 12-30-2013, 10:40 AM.
                            ------
                            HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                            My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


                            Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                            " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                              I think people are often just curious about ethnicity, and it isn't meant to be a mean natured thing to think that someone with an accent/non-white appearance is from somewhere different and to want to know where that place is. It's often just a good place to start a conversation.

                              Getting peeved because someone mocks your weight/language/accent is one thing, but if someone just has a polite curiosity and asks a few too many annoying questions, who cares?
                              I'm certainly not advocating getting peeved, and it is a great place to start a conversation. But accept the answer. If someone says "Texas" -- then they are from Texas. If you want to know their ancestral background, ask about that. It's just more polite, really.

                              But it is wearing on people who look different to be asked "no, really" -- and as turquoise queen points out, it is racist to do so. So, you know, if we are concerned about our own behavior/thoughts/actions, it's a good idea to pay attention and simply reframe the question or not ask the next question.

                              To me, personally, it's not relevant per se. TQ's history is interesting in so far as I may be interested to know her -- i.e., moved to texas when I was 8, grew up there, etc -- but her ethnic background or ancestry is also only as important to me as it is important to her. And I feel confident that asking about it openly isn't racist, but asking about it uncertain ways betrays a subtle racism within myself.

                              For myself, I seek to undo the roots of racism within myself, so that I can live and practice acceptance. It's something that I value.

                              I think that in the case of weight/size, a lot o the questioning is patronizing. And it's often not questioning. Fat folks call it "concern trolling." A stranger introduces himself, then immediately offers health (diet/exercise) advice. It's patronizing. It's not accepting.

                              The other day, my husband and I went to dinner with friends. It was pizza/beer. We don't eat/drink that, but we have very cool, accepting friends. We are also cool, accepting friends, I would say. We ate before hand, and it was no problem.

                              Everyone else at the table was overweight to some degree. That is just an observation, not a judgment. With one, I spoke about her crafting and how she grew up in PGH. With another, we talked about tolkein and dr who. With another, we talked about his work as an art director at a local advertising firm. Not once did diet, weight, fitness, or anything of the sort come up. We had no judgment of them -- just total acceptance -- and as such, we left with 4 new friends.

                              I doubt there will come a time where weight issues will come up -- and if they do, it'll be because they bring them up to me, not the other way around.

                              I think that there are so many things to talk about. When I meet people, I usually ask "what are you into these days?" And then they tell me what they are into. It's awesome to hear people talk about their passions.

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                              • The major reason I no longer come to this site is the lack of compassion shown towards others here.

                                I was once one of those who could have been assumed to be "sitting on the couch all day stuffing my face". Many of you would have judged me as you judge other "fatties", yet your assumption would have been far from the truth.

                                The CICO believers here have already told me repeatedly that I must be lying (or stupid), but the truth is that I did not lose weight with a CICO approach. It was only when I started eating a diet of primarily protein and fat that I began to lose the weight I had struggled to lose for many years.

                                I spent a good deal of my life following the recommendations of the government and my doctor, staying within caloric guidelines for my height but eating low fat/high carb (i.e. "healthy whole grains"). I also exercised. I frequently went hungry, sometimes painfully so.

                                You don't believe me, I know -- but I don't think I am a "special snowflake" as someone on here already stated -- actually I think there are possibly many, many more like me who struggle to do what is recommended with low or zero results. My body still reacts this way BTW: if I have sushi or a piece of French bread, I can be assured that I will see a 3 lb gain on the scale....and it will take 3 weeks of vigilance to lose that gain.

                                Through all the years of struggling with this and finally finding what worked for me, I managed to earn 2 college degrees, hold down a senior administrative post, get married, have 2 children, own a business, publish a book, etc. -- all the while knowing that I frequently wasn't valued for my accomplishments but judged by my weight.

                                The meanness in our society towards those who weight is over the "norm" is well demonstrated in this thread. Perhaps you could develop some compassion for those who aren't as lucky as many of you have been in the area of metabolism.
                                Starting Weight: 197.5
                                Current Weight: 123
                                Far healthier!

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