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Who's worse — the vegans or us?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Liftinglife View Post
    Perhaps. Certain groups of people can easily be correlated to certain traits, maybe even non/religious sectors. I guess certain religious groups may be more likely to eat certain foods but I feel like that is more of a regional thing.
    I'm sure there's a regional correlation as well. I was just implying that people who generally make decisions based on reason might be more inclined to Primal/Paleo than veganism, while people who generally make decisions based on faith and emotion might be more inclined to veganism than P/P. Therefore, a forum filled with vegans might be more predisposed to sympathizing with religious beliefs while a forum filled with us might be more predisposed to sympathizing with atheism. I could very well be wrong, but it would surprise me. I was just pointing out a flaw in Lewis's proposed experiment, not making a value judgment regarding anyone's beliefs (although I'd be happy to do so if anyone insists).
    The Champagne of Beards

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    • #17
      Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
      I'm sure there's a regional correlation as well. I was just implying that people who generally make decisions based on reason might be more inclined to Primal/Paleo than veganism, while people who generally make decisions based on faith and emotion might be more inclined to veganism than P/P. Therefore, a forum filled with vegans might be more predisposed to sympathizing with religious beliefs while a forum filled with us might be more predisposed to sympathizing with atheism. I could very well be wrong, but it would surprise me. I was just pointing out a flaw in Lewis's proposed experiment, not making a value judgment regarding anyone's beliefs (although I'd be happy to do so if anyone insists).
      Lol I bet you could but I won't insist.

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      • #18
        I've noticed a lot of wild insistence and Pub-med backed righteousness on the forums lately.

        I think a good diet/lifestyle results in a calm mind, low stress, and enough energy for daily life, plus plenty of play. I always thought the 30bd trollers were like angry malnourished cavepeople, sneaking in and trying to steal a bison leg.

        If you're feeling really righteous and pissed off at other people for being so dumb that they won't eat EXACTLY LIKE YOU, it's probably time to take some Omegas, eat a burger and go nap in the sun.

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        • #19
          It's crazy how worked up people get about their views. I find it really hard not to associate my views with my identity. When someone attacks your views they really aren't attacking you but it can't stop you feeling criticised or maybe less enlightened. When I drive on the motorway I believe everyone going slower than me is a moron and everyone going faster is a maniac....can't be true and reminding myself of this frequently can help to moderate my attitude. Vegans are morons and Peaters are maniacs
          Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
          www.primaljoy.co.uk

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          • #20
            Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
            Ok. I think that primals are based on 'digestion based', which is scientific evidence in the way you are saying. But I think that vegans are primarily coming from a moral stance. Which I guess I could see you saying is faith-based, but really, religion is only a subset of the moral sphere.

            Do you think Plant Positive (who I think is Don Maetz) is approaching his diet from a faith based or scientific paradigm?

            The tricky thing about science is that it's not as 'pure' as it's made out to be. People lock in on theories and invest themselves in them their whole lives. It's only when the (wrong) theories fail to attract new adherents that they wither and die out, but that can take a generation or more.
            I feel like you're fervently refuting claims I've never made. I'm just sort of shrugging my shoulders at this.

            Do you think they debate the biochem on vegan websites like we do here? I have a hard time imagining vegan versions of Chocotaco and pklopp spewing vitriol at one another over a disagreement on the minute interworkings of various metabolic hormones.

            BTW: Loren Cordain wrote the Paleo Diet more than a generation ago. How long has the debate about global warming been around? Some things don't fail to attract new adherents and die out, but that doesn't mean the old beliefs are justifiable. Just that they're strong memes.
            The Champagne of Beards

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            • #21
              Going back to the OPs point about how we react to the disabled, it seems pretty common that people who clearly have some issue such as schizophrenia are not generally handled as unwell people on the interwebs. In real life, a few times a year I am in charge of a place where the public comes through and it astounds me how the the otherwise educated staff gets riled up by autistic customers. They somehow think autistic behavior is "rudeness" purposefully directed at them personally.

              Of course, a Paleo group is more likely to include those who mock the afflicted in all forms, because it is more likely to attract a more isolationist sort of person. I don't imagine there are many Ayn Rand readers on the vegan boards- veganism tends include a more communitarian world view. This has nothing to do with science- both isolationists and communitarian scan adequately use science to support their world view. And the fact that they can means one would do well not to become dogmatically attached to any point along the spectrum.
              “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
              Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Lewis
                How far does one defend the Paleo position against each and every attack? Even attacks from the (obviously) weak?
                I don't bother defending Paleo/Primal, any more than I bother defending my atheism. Sometimes I'll correct clearly erroneous facts, but beyond that I see no reason to try defending it against those who are determined to be hostile. Why are they so fearful and angry that they have to lash out and berate me for my choices? Beats me. But I receive no benefit from getting angry in response, and rising to their bait only gives them fuel for their own fear- and anger-driven sense of righteouness.

                Eating LCHF Primal (combined with IF) works for me, but it's not the optimal choice for everybody. For some, my diet would be an outright terrible choice. And in the future, as I keep tinkering and experimenting, and my body changes, I might find myself needing a different macronutrient ratio, or I might benefit more by doing longer fasts once a week or month, rather than daily IF. What I do is not carved in stone, and does not have to be--it just has to meet my health needs right now.

                There is no single way of eating/macro balance that is right for every single person. There is no One True Way to Dietary Heaven. There is nothing that needs defending from unbelievers. Anyone who is truly interested in P/P (or whole foods ketogenic diets) will explore those options for themselves. But those who need enemies to feel alive, and thus go on Internet crusades for their faith or their diet? Why should I even bother responding to that? I mean, really?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Artemis67 View Post
                  There is no single way of eating/macro balance that is right for every single person. There is no One True Way to Dietary Heaven. There is nothing that needs defending from unbelievers. Anyone who is truly interested in P/P (or whole foods ketogenic diets) will explore those options for themselves. But those who need enemies to feel alive, and thus go on Internet crusades for their faith or their diet? Why should I even bother responding to that? I mean, really?
                  Why not? I always tries to take good care of my enemies, and peace is only the boring rest between wars! This is how I handle vegans:

                  "Your enemy shall ye seek; your war shall ye wage, and for the sake of your thoughts! And if your thoughts succumb, your uprightness shall still shout triumph thereby! Ye shall love peace as a means to new wars—and the short peace more than the long. You I advise not to work, but to fight. You I advise not to peace, but to victory. Let your work be a fight, let your peace be a victory! One can only be silent and sit peacefully when one hath arrow and bow; otherwise one prateth and quarrelleth. Let your peace be a victory! Ye say it is the good cause which halloweth even war? I say unto you: it is the good war which halloweth every cause."

                  (Also Sprach Zarathustra)
                  "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                  - Schopenhauer

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                  • #24
                    Gorby: Ironically, that reminds me of Deuteronomy 7:5:

                    But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
                    The Champagne of Beards

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                      Why not? I always tries to take good care of my enemies, and peace is only the boring rest between wars! This is how I handle vegans:
                      LOL. I don't see vegans as my enemy. After all, many of them cave in and binge on cheese or eggs every so often. They're omnivores, like us! They're just in denial about it.

                      Besides, I reserve the term "enemy" for someone who poses a genuine threat to my well-being. It's an honor to be my enemy; all others are just a damned nuisance. Someone wants to eat 30 bananas a day? Pfft--let 'em. They'll see how well that works, soon enough. I spent two years as a vegan myself when I was a young and angry critter; I got over that madness, and most of them will, too.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                        I'm sure there's a regional correlation as well. I was just implying that people who generally make decisions based on reason might be more inclined to Primal/Paleo than veganism, while people who generally make decisions based on faith and emotion might be more inclined to veganism than P/P. Therefore, a forum filled with vegans might be more predisposed to sympathizing with religious beliefs while a forum filled with us might be more predisposed to sympathizing with atheism. I could very well be wrong, but it would surprise me. I was just pointing out a flaw in Lewis's proposed experiment, not making a value judgment regarding anyone's beliefs (although I'd be happy to do so if anyone insists).
                        This is ridiculous. Vegans are mostly liberals, liberals are mostly atheist if not always. Checkmate atheist. Christianity for a certainty does not equal vegetarian or veganism, and most religions are simply against cruelty of animals, not consumption of them for food. I know you want to make your amoral and tyrannical religion look cool, but at least learn the facts.

                        "God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: 'Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you shall rest on every animal of the earth, and on every bird of the air, on everything that creeps on the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; into your hand they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.' "

                        Genesis 9:1-3
                        Make America Great Again

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Artemis67 View Post
                          LOL. I don't see vegans as my enemy.
                          Absolutely. Primal and Vegans are far closer to each other than to the SAD.
                          Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                          Griff's cholesterol primer
                          5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                          Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                          TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                          bloodorchid is always right

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                            This is ridiculous. Vegans are mostly liberals, liberals are mostly atheist if not always.
                            The Ann Coulter school of reasoning. Love it.

                            Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                            "God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: 'Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you shall rest on every animal of the earth, and on every bird of the air, on everything that creeps on the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; into your hand they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.' "
                            I didn't say Christianity (or the Abrahamic religions in general) supported veganism. I suggested that people who are less influenced by reason might be drawn to both religion and veganism. Quoting Genesis doesn't refute that.
                            The Champagne of Beards

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                              The Ann Coulter school of reasoning. Love it.



                              I didn't say Christianity (or the Abrahamic religions in general) supported veganism. I suggested that people who are less influenced by reason might be drawn to both religion and veganism. Quoting Genesis doesn't refute that.
                              They don't call it religion... It's spirituality, and you wouldn't understand because your meat-fogged brain is not enlightened.
                              I got 99 problems but a pancake ain't one...

                              My Journal

                              Height: 6'3"
                              SW (Feb 2012): 278
                              SBF: 26% (Scale)
                              CW (Sept 2015): 200
                              CBF: 17% (Scale)

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by accidentalpancake View Post
                                They don't call it religion... It's spirituality, and you wouldn't understand because your meat-fogged brain is not enlightened.
                                Sweet, sweet meat-fog!
                                The Champagne of Beards

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