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  • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    Yes, it's called disability and Medicaid. It costs me money. They cost me money.

    Problem is some 40% of my income goes to some form of tax. It doesn't leave me a lot to live with. I get like, roads from our government. I feel very badly for these people, but I'm becoming a turnip with no blood left to give.
    1) Tax burdens have actually gone down since the 1980's.....this is well-established fact that only loonies without calculators argue against.
    or for rote stats, here
    Taxes - Just Facts

    The reason that it is brought up so much, to create the idea of such "oppressive taxation", is that it is the only selling point that the Reps have anymore. It was called as much in the "Shooting Santa Clause" article many years ago, which explained that the Reps should become the "Santa of Tax Cuts" to offset the Dems "Santa of free stuff"....they know it is their only card left, so the argument that under a Dem taxes are just so oppressive is pervaded throughout their corporate media, despite no actual changes to rates or laws. Facts are not relevant to them.

    2 ) We are in no danger of becoming a "nanny state", as anyone that has seen a bankruptcy court could tell you. When I see a lot of the patients I do, whether in a hospital or otherwise, it becomes clear that there is an overwhelming harshness to our system. It judges people mostly on what they can contribute, at that moment, to the machine. It dehumanizes, infantilizes, and takes away dignity.....again, all of the calls about a "nanny state" are from the young and vigorous, which are essentially getting mad over the fact that others in bad situations require their help to make it. In other words, it is the desire for institutionalized selfishness. Come hang out in a cancer ward or an outpatient wing for a good look at the "nanny state" that Fox News has on the screen all the time....we have a full-time counselor at my hospital whose entire job, as far as I can tell, is to counsel grief stricken people....not because of death, but because their financial lives are pretty much over now. She is a financial advisor, not a social worker. She guides people through the bankruptcy process. Ask a family of 4 that was just scraping by with the kind of jobs our Economic Royalist's system provides that just got bankrupted because the mother got cancer how "nannied" they feel. We are very calculated and heartless; traits opposite of a nanny.

    I understand the fact that there are HUGE swaths of American cities and rural areas (inner city or rural Appalachia aren't all that different on this count) where almost NO ONE actually contributes to much of anything. They get welfare and disability, head to Wal-Mart to buy a bunch of Chinese junk and SAD food, then get sick and we end up paying for it through the nose.

    But a society paying for the desperation it is putting its citizens into is not a "nanny state". It is a corporatist state, with society stepping in to take care of its castaways, its "non viable". These are diametrically opposed to one another.

    My views on this are pretty well-known by now I'd imagine.....but I cannot stand the way that the corporate media is able to make people talk about what they want them to talk about; and the nanny state idea is entirely their own, along with the "oppressive taxation" one, because the further depletion of either benefits them.
    Last edited by TheyCallMeLazarus; 11-16-2013, 08:24 PM.
    "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."


    • Lazarus,

      The Tax Burden is going up to record levels. You must consider the property taxes, sales tax, state income tax, federal income tax that includes dividend & interest taxes. I was driven out of 2 states just for the rocketing property taxes. My property tax in Chicago went from $600 to $6,000 a year when we said to HELL with Chicago and moved to Florida. Then our property taxes rocketed from $900 a year to $3,500 a year and we said to HELL with Florida and moved to Tennessee where our property tax is still less than $1,000 after 8 years. We also have the inflation tax, and the FED is boosting the money supply dramatically to force higher inflation on us.

      And now Obama Care adds a SEVERE tax to pay for other peoples health procedures. Men should not be forced to pay for pregnancy procedures, birth control pills, etc etc. IMO, the Obama Care Tax is going to be the LAST STRAW, and must be repealed. People are going to revolt against the Far Left Liberals and extreme liberalism will be set back for years to come. They can't get blood from turnips. IMO, the Lying Democrats will be thrown out of power for years to come.


      Nation's Largest Healthcare Provider Cuts Thousands Of Doctors; Blames Obama Care !
      UnitedHealth, the nation's largest provider of privately managed Medicare Advantage plans, has dropped thousands of doctors from its networks in recent weeks citing "substantial funding pressure from the federal government."
      There are HORRORS involved in this story! I'll try to find the links & post them.

      Here is one of the Horrors:
      Depending on their plan, UnitedHealth Medicare members may be able to see terminated doctors if they pay an out-of-network fee or pay 100% of the cost themselves!


      Find Your Obama Health Plan Now
      Instantly compare premiums for health exchange plans

      Impeach Obama

      Last edited by Grizz; 11-17-2013, 09:20 AM.


      • WARNING: If you have children or grandchildren, I think you had better start investigating what Obama is teaching your children through the "Common Core" nationwide educational program. Common Core is teaching FAR LEFT liberalism to children! This is just another component of Obama's promise to "Transform The United States of America." I think someone should start a new thread about Obama's Common Core.

        I won't go into details because this thread is for the Horrors of Obama Care which is "Transforming the United States" into an insurance Dictatorship. Y'all do it MY WAY or the HIGHWAY. Period!

        Now back to Obama Care,

        SNL makes Obama the butt of another VERY funny skit:
        Pill-popping Obama in SNL’s hilarious ‘second-term strength’ anti-depressant ad
        “Depressed? Run down? Like you just can’t win? . . . You may be suffering from presidential depression.”

        In its latest attempt to capitalize on the unmistakable mess that Obama has made of his second term, the SNL crew published a doozy of a commercial for Paxil, second term strength, “the only anti-depressant strong enough for an embattled second term.”

        Impeach Obama

        Last edited by Grizz; 11-17-2013, 09:21 AM.


        • LMAO!

          Common Core State Standards Initiative | Home

          I can understand why you and your Tea Party would not want kids today to learn reading comprehension and how to analyze and write a paper using logic and reason.

          This was started on a local and state level with NO federal involvement BEFORE Obama was elected. States started to voluntarily adopt it in 2010 according to their site. Even your state adopted it so I guess it is time to move again. Common Core State Standards Initiative | Frequently Asked Questions

          They also have standards for math which you seem to need as well based on your response to Laz about taxes. Did you even look at the site he posted? Or are numbers another tool the Devil Left?

          Facts are your friend! Why do you hate learning and education?


          • Nation's Largest Healthcare Provider Cuts Thousands Of Doctors; Blames Obama Care !

            People can keep their Doctors. Period. Really?
            Not when Obama Care SLASHES & BURNS Medicare & Medicaid Dollars.
            Here are some of the stories I have found:

            Midway through her third pregnancy, Grace Ewing spotted a disturbing notice on the counter at her obstetrician’s office.
            Her Advocare doctor could no longer accept the UnitedHealthcare Community Plan as of Oct. 1, since the Medicaid managed care organization terminated its contract with the provider network.Like 25,000 other Advocare patients in New Jersey, the practice told her she would have to find a new provider — and quickly. One office worker after another told her the same thing: “We used to accept it, but we don’t anymore.”
            “When I say that this has been horrible for me, I had a mental breakdown … I was treated for mental exhaustion and anxiety and dehydration at Virtua Hospital ... This has really, really affected my life.”
            Nearly 1.3 million New Jerseyans — about 15 percent of the state’s population — are enrolled in Medicaid, most through plans administered by four managed care organizations.
            MUCH MORE to this heart breaking story:
            Doctor Associations File Lawsuit Against UnitedHealthcare Over Network Cuts
            This is already getting VERY nasty
            More to come

            I know, you just HATE it when I expose your Far Left Wing Comrades. I repeat to everyone, if you have children in school, learn what Common Core has been teaching your children, and make up your own mind. Then start a new thread about Common Core to expose what the Socialists are teaching your children.

            Last edited by Grizz; 11-17-2013, 09:56 AM.


            • Ah, Vh67, Grizz never considers actual facts when on his Fox-fueled rants. He clearly demonstrates "none so blind as those who will not see".

              I, however, appreciate your thoughtful and sensible posts.
              Starting Weight: 197.5
              Current Weight: 123
              Far healthier!


              • @ Grizz.....and I don't know why I even try anymore. Facts are clearly not a strong suit.

                1) You DO UNDERSTAND that property taxes are levied by municipalities, right? In the case of Florida, my former state where there is no state income tax, state level hikes were forced to keep things like police and fire from being eliminated (Detroit, anyone?) Just in case this escaped you: Property tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The federal government has no jurisdiction to levy property taxes.

                2) Inflation is incredibly low right now, and has been for about a decade. Our main worry is deflation, which is much worse.
                Historical Inflation Rates: 1914-2013, Annual and Monthly Tables - US Inflation Calculator

                I am clearly anti-Obamacare, but mainly because it in fact did almost nothing. It was not a revolution, a far left law, or anything of the sort. It was a set of standard for insurance and a government exchange were they could voluntarily offer policies....that's all. I have become convinced that there is an invented president and the real president.

                Invented = a far-left "comrade" (really? You know that makes you look totally insane, correct?) that desires world domination and Marx in every classroom.
                Real = a corporatist technocrat that only really varies from the likes of Clinton or Reagan in terms of style. Actual policy, both foreign and domestic, remains a corporate/militaristic cabal that is not too concerned with actually improving people's lives.

                And please stop copy/pasting 6 paragraph invented news as an actual post. If I want made-up corporate brainwashing, I will turn on Fox. Give YOUR opinion, hopefully with things like numbers and objective references. YOU aren't exposing anything. You are doing the calling-card of the kool-aid drinking sheep; taking the words and opinion of "the approved sources" and casting them as your own. If you want people to take you seriously, you have to be a little more rational. Just saying what everyone that has looked at this thread has been thinking.
                "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."



                  Unfortunately, this is all he will hear.

                  Bravo, Comrade Lazarus.
                  "The grand essentials of happiness are: something to do, something to love and something to hope for." - Allan K. Chalmers (1759-1834)


                  • I tried signing up for obamacare the other day. I have a pre-existing condition and did not have insurance previously.

                    I was flat out denied from the the state healthcare program and also told i was not eligible for medicaid.

                    so what the hell do people like me do now?


                    • @@ janie
                      @@ VH67
                      Sorry you don't like FOX news. The fact is that conservative FOX has sent Liberal MSNBC into the ratings DUST.
                      READ IT & WEEP
                      People are just sick & tired of the LIES & Distortion of the Liberal News. FOX is putting liberal news out of business. I know you and the rest of you liberals HATE it, but that is just the way it is. Sorry, get ready for your MSNBC Comrades to shut down because everyone went to FOX.....

                      Common Core is indoctrinating MARXISM into our innocent children. Here is a Google search for everyone to study:
                      2.2 Million Hits
                      Don't take my word for it. If you have children, find out what they are being taught under Common Core.
                      BTW) This video on Common Core just came in: Notice the statement,"Bribery by Obama to get what he wants."
                      TN Student Speaks Out About Common Core, Teacher Evaluations, and Educational Data - Tea Party Command Center

                      @@ Lazarus
                      Property taxes are rocketing an many areas. It doesn't matter why. Tennessee has no state income tax either, and we are not suffering rocketing property taxes. Tennessee is a TAX HAVEN. If you are sick & tired of confiscatory taxes, move to Tennessee! All of these taxes, local, state & federal all add up add up to a stifling theft of our incomes. We are being SMOTHERED with taxes and Obamacare is going to be the LAST STRAW for Millions of Americans. There WILL be retribution at the Polls in 2014 and in 2016! . Sorry, but I am NOT going to give away most of my income to taxes. That is UNAMERICAN.

                      Inflation is measured by the growth of money supply. The FTTM Money Supply has doubled since 2009 !
                      Some key statistics
                      When the money supply rockets, inflation in goods & services follows. (The CPI does not measure inflation accurately). There is no inflation? Tell that to someone buying food, to someone buying health insurance, or anyone buying a college education.
                      I also did not say we had bad inflation. Here is what I said:
                      "We also have the inflation tax, and the FED is boosting the money supply dramatically to force higher inflation on us."
                      Inflation is a hidden tax caused by many factors, but the major factor is Printing Press Money. As you can see in the charts above, FTTM money supply has DOUBLED since 2009. This is a reliable predictive measure of future inflation.

                      Now, back to Obama Care
                      Allen West on President Obama's Credibility: "He Should Resign"
                      From Common Core to Obamacare, to Benghazi and Middle East stability, Barack Obama's credibility rating with the American people has slipped down to an all time low...... Video:

                      D.C. insurance commissioner fired a day after questioning Obamacare fix
                      HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY DICTATES !
                      A day after he questioned President Obama’s decision to unwind a major tenet of the health-care law and said the nation’s capital might not go along, D.C. insurance commissioner William P. White was fired.

                      Impeach Obama
                      Impeach Obama Fax - Tea Party

                      Last edited by Grizz; 11-17-2013, 12:55 PM.


                      • STUDY: Watching Fox News Makes You Less Informed Than Watching No News At All - Business Insider

                        Fox News Viewers Uninformed, NPR Listeners Not, Poll Suggests - Forbes

                        Fox News viewers worst-informed, study finds - Telegraph

                        I posted several sources of the same story since that seems to make you think it is more impressive based on your past posts.

                        I don't think I have never watched or read MSNBC but i may have. I actually like reading a bunch of different sources. To provide you even more evidence that I am what ever it is that you think I am, I even read BBC and gasp , Fact-Based, In-Depth News | Al Jazeera America! I like to have a well rounded of any subject that I read about.

                        Maury Povich and Judge Judy get good ratings too but what does that tell you about our country?

                        I do have complaints about cursive no longer being taught, which is supported by Common Cause. I think that is wrong. There are schools here that are continuing to teach it but they are in the better school districts. Some day too soon reading cursive will be just for the elite.

                        Anyone who has kids in school would be remiss not to know what is being taught and being proactive in their child's education. I would be far more worried about people resorting to name calling then actual facts, who exhibit a lack of comprehension skills and logic trying to decide what and how kids learn. Marxism? Nazism? Really? So very sad.


                        • Here's who crafted Obamacare's magic lies

                          "You can keep your Doctor & Healthcare PERIOD" was no mistake or slip up. It was carefully crafted to trick America!
                          Every word that Obama & his Democrat Comrades Utter is carefully scripted & marketing tested by this secretive organization that no one has ever heard of. How they did it, and who funds them. This is the second WND report investigating the Herndon Alliance, the group behind the marketing of Obamacare. The first article, which exposed Herndon’s ties to many radical groups, is included.

                          Part 1 excerpts here:
                          The Herndon Alliance is openly partnered with a number of radical groups, including MoveOn, the National Council of La Raza and a slew of George Soros-funded activist organizations.

                          It is also partnered with a “direct action” group dedicated to the teachings of radical Saul Alinsky.
                          The original research that informed Herndon’s blueprint for marketing Obamacare, WND has found, was concocted by the imaging guru for the late Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez.The Herndon Alliance has been behind the marketing campaign for Obamacare since the inception of the legislation.
                          Herndon’s decision-making for how to market Obamacare was based significantly on the theoretical work of American Environics, which was founded in 2004 by a team of American strategists and Canadian researchers.

                          AE describes itself as a consulting firm that uses social-values surveys, cognitive linguistics and political psychology to help foundations and nonprofits develop breakthrough social change initiatives.
                          WND has reported Apollo is led by a host of radicals, including Van Jones, Obama’s former “green” jobs czar, who resigned after it was exposed [by Glenn Beck] he founded a communist revolutionary group.

                          Jeff Jones, who heads Apollo’s New York branch, is a former top leader of the Weathermen terrorist organization, while Apollo associate Joel Rogers is a founder of the socialist-oriented New Party.

                          Much more tying Obama into the Radical Left Wing organizations, Part 1
                          Chavez-linked group crafted ‘keep your health plan’

                          Part 2 of Report here:
                          A group that has been the driving force in branding Obamacare has recommended a series of phrases, some deceptive, that the White House and Democrats have used to sell the health-care law to the public, WND has found.

                          The little-known Herndon Alliance has been behind the marketing of Obamacare since the inception of the legislation.

                          It was the group that crafted President Obama’s false claim that Americans can maintain their “choice” of doctors and insurance plans.

                          Along with advising the Obama administration, Herndon has been providing strategy to Enroll America, the main organization pushing for the uninsured to sign up for Obamacare. Enroll America’s executive director, Ron Pollack, was a founding member of Herndon.

                          Politico reported that when Obama repeatedly announced Americans can maintain their “choice” of doctors and insurance plans, he was “using a Herndon strategy for wringing fear out of a system overhaul.”

                          The Herndon Alliance, based in Seattle, describes itself as “a nationwide non-partisan coalition of more than 200 minority, faith, labor, advocacy, business, and healthcare provider organizations.”

                          As WND reported in February 2012, the group received a grant from the lobbying arm of the progressive Media Matters for America to help the White House to craft and market Obamacare.(Funded by Billionaire George Soros)

                          Using polling data about what Americans like and don’t like about Obamacare, Herndon concocted a list of words and statements to use in selling the legislation to the country: “Universal health care,” “Canadian Style Health care,” “Medicare for All,” “Competition,” “Government health care for all,” “Regulations,” “Required,” “Public or Government health care,” and “Basic health care.”

                          Key phrases to use in the messaging of Obamacare include “Quality affordable health care,” “American solutions,” “A choice of private and public plans,” “Choice and control,” “Giving security and peace of mind,” “Sliding scale, pay what you can afford,” “Government as a watchdog, ensure a fair playing field,” “Affordable health plans” and “Smart investments.”

                          Many of these phrases were incorporated in the marketing material released by the White House and groups like Enroll America.Herndon specifically labels women, particularly those over the age of 65, “a key persuadable audience.”

                          “We need to show them how the new law will benefit them. Remember that when messaging to women, start with our core message to build trust,” continues Herndon.

                          The core message: “Reform requires that Members of Congress get their healthcare coverage from the same plans as millions of Americans.”

                          However, the Affordable Care Act actually locks lawmakers and their staffers out of the federal government’s group health plan and instead puts them into state insurance exchanges.

                          Herndon recognized the public was finding it difficult to accept Obamacare will bring health-care costs down.

                          So to avoid a conversation on costs, Herndon suggested what it called a “long-term effort to ‘move’ the public along by focusing the conversation on specific benefits of the law that will most affect them.”

                          On Medicare, Herndon concocted two key selling points: “The law protects Medicare and provides preventive care with no co-pay.”
                          In actuality, it has been widely reported the government is scaling back Medicare funding to help defray the costs of Obamacare, with the likely loss of some benefits while raising premiums.

                          In one immediate ramification, the country’s largest provider of Medicare Advantage plans, UnitedHealth Group, said it will need to reduce the number of doctors in its network nationally by 10 to 15 percent in the next year alone.
                          [AS I ALREADY REPORTED]

                          For those who say they don’t trust the government, Herndon posits the best response “is one that says the law requires us all (consumers, doctors and nurses, hospitals, insurance companies) to take responsibility and play by fair rules.”

                          “Our government is a government for all the people, not just for the privileged,” Herndon recommends saying.

                          However, that talking point may surprise critics of what has been described as waivers of some provisions of the health-care law for a number of businesses and unions.

                          The Department of Health and Human Services allowed lower annual caps on the total amount of medical bills some firms and unions pay for each subscriber. Reportedly the temporary waivers were offered to 722 businesses, 417 groups of small employers bound by collective bargaining agreements and 34 unions.

                          The rest of the story here:
                          Deception: Here’s who crafted Obamacare’s magic lies

                          @@ VH67,
                          I don't agree with your analysis of FOX News, so we can agree to disagree. FOX is far better than MSNBC or CNN, as proven by popularity studies Chart.
                          Your opinion doesn't mean anything.
                          What counts is the MAJORITY have cast their ballot by watching FOX and shunning the Left Wing Liberal News.

                          Impeach Obama

                          Last edited by Grizz; 11-17-2013, 02:15 PM.


                          • @VH67

                            I have actually found similar things, were it feels like there are two forms of education in America. I work in an Ivy League community (Hanover NH, home of Dartmouth College) and the public school there is HARD. I had a patient a few weeks ago that was explaining that she cannot help anymore on her 5th grader's math homework.....because it is pre-calculus (first order derivatives). Ditto with their history class. I am friends with a freshman history teacher, and I have SEEN his tests. They are incredibly hard and nuanced. An essay question he had recently was this:

                            Please explain the rationale for the Boston Tea Party from the point of view of the colonialists. He indicated to me that any answer that included the idea that colonialists had to pay more taxes and were angry is automatically zero points, as it is historically false without argument....and this is their PUBLIC school. Contrast this to 10 miles away in the much less affluent Lebanon, and it is not in the same universe. I have had parents that tell me their kids never even have homework. Its early stratification, and it is incredibly sad.

                            Remember that when Jefferson died, he created the Univ of Virgina, and mandated into its charter it be FREE. It was his greatest accomplishment, to his mind.

                            @Jamie. Many states do not actually even HAVE Obamacare right now, as the state-level sabotage means they have not setup an exchange. The federal website (a disaster) was never meant to be actually giving out policies. It was meant to be a portal to the state exchanges only. 36 states did not setup an exchange, so anyone is them does not actually "have Obamacare" yet. This is one of those things our terrible media sheep have neglected to mention, as the spectacle of failure gets much better ratings than actual analysis of why it is happening.
                            "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."


                            • @@ VH67,
                              I don't agree with your analysis of FOX News, so we can agree to disagree. FOX is far better than MSNBC or CNN, as proven by popularity studies Chart.
                              Your opinion doesn't mean anything.
                              What counts is the MAJORITY have cast their ballot by watching FOX and shunning the Left Wing

                              That is not my analysis of Fox News but thank you for thinking that most news sources would write an article about my opinion. That was a study, not my opinion, so, no, we can not agree to disagree. Being popular does not make one right. It, sadly, may show more about the people who get their news from tv. Kim Kardashen is popular too. Actually the MAJORITY spoke when they voted in November 2012.


                              • VH67,
                                OK, I get it. You don't like FOX news. Am I right? That is fine with me. All of us have our preferences.

                                You can get your news anywhere your sweet little heart desires, and I will never criticize you for it. To each their own.

                                I honestly tried watching CNBS on numerous occasions, and all they did was piss me off with their biased, liberal slanted coverage. So I do prefer FOX and other honest news sources. So that is my opinion and I don't expect you to agree with me.

                                To each their own.

                                A Song Dedicated to Obama:
                                In light of the recent fiasco with ObamaCare and the President coming out and "semi" apologizing for the ineptitude of his administration putting together a scrap heap website and MILLIONS of our American brothers and sisters LOSING their healthcare contrary to what they were told: "If you like your plan you can keep",
                                I dedicate this song to the Contrite President:
                                Too Late to Apologize, Mr. Obama! - Tea Party Command Center

                                Sen. Kristen Gillibrand (D-NY): Yeah, "We All Knew" Obama Was Lying About Keeping Your Health Insurance
                                New York Senator Kristen Gillibrand admitted Sunday to knowing the promises President Obama made about his signature health care plan were false. On ABC’s This Week, fill-in host Martha Raditz asked Gillibrand, considering the now nearly universally acceptance of the fact that the President said things about the law that weren’t true, whether she felt misled by the President:
                                He should’ve just been specific. No we all knew.
                                Doug Ross @ Journal: Sen. Kristen Gillibrand (D-NY): Yeah, "We All Knew" Obama Was Lying About Keeping Your Health Insurance

                                Watch Nancy Pelosi stumble over her lies when grilled on Meet The Press!
                                Nancy Pelosi Spends 3 Minutes Trying To Rewrite Her Own Broken ObamaCare Promise.
                                Read the scathing & Hilarious comments below this link:

                                Impeach Obama

                                Last edited by Grizz; 11-17-2013, 03:40 PM.