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  • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    A reasonable argument...
    I'm pretty much on the same page as you. I would also have liked a single-payer type approach. Hell, Medicare For All sounded pretty good. The ACA has problems, and fails to really tackle a huge problem in our healthcare system - cost - but it's better than what we had before, in my mind.

    Comment


    • ACA is largely exactly what we had before, except with slightly less racketeering and more of the rest of it.

      M.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
        Insurance is always about redistributing costs. Perhaps you are opposed to insurance in principle.
        The ACA makes actual insurance, that is a premium you pay to guard against a catastrophic loss, illegal. That is why it imploding. People who can least afford expensive pre-paid health plans and were reluctant to even buy catastrophic insurance plans in some cases are being asked by the President to buy plans that are more expensive and have higher deductibles. Well, at least they would be asking them that if the damn sites even worked. What the ACA is really trying to do is force people in to is pre-paid health plans, not "insurance". Obama is using the word "insurance" but what he really means is something quite different. What the US needs to do is go back to a system of true insurance (and this requires going back decades). That is the only way you are ever going to get a handle on costs. Well, not the only way- the other option would be a totalitarian police state that regulates health care at the point of a gun.

        Comment


        • Democrats abandon Obama, House takes first step toward repeal, passes legislation

          In a stinging rebuke to President Obama, the House voted to “fix” Obamacare, allowing insurers to keep offering the plans canceled by Obamacare indefinitely to not only existing customers, but also future ones. The vote was 261 to 157, with 39 Democrats joining with the Republicans.

          This bill passed by the House means that ObamaCare is DEAD, and Obama promised to veto it ! Of course our Liar in Chief threatens to veto this bill. He can't allow ANY existing policies to continue. He needs that money in his exchanges with far more expensive plans. Republicans have a new healthcare bill in the wings that makes much more sense, which I posted earlier.
          “More and more Democrats are finding that the law they helped enact is actually causing real world harm. As more problems with Obamacare hurt the American people, I expect even more Democrats will join Republicans in opposing it.” The strong Democratic vote for legislative relief in the House may well induce the Senate to pass its own, more limited fix. If so, the two houses will need to reconcile their bills — possibly opening up even more aspects of the bill. This, of course, is precisely what Republicans want to do. The inevitability that once cloaked Obamacare is gone; the real potential for further revisions now exists.
          Dems abandon Obama, House takes first step toward repeal

          ======================================

          America’s truth or consequences moment is NOW



          After enduring months of scandals, lies, and ineptitude, there can be no doubt America is at a crossroads. We must all decide whether the rule of law is still applicable in this Republic or shall we drift into becoming a progressive socialist dictatorship.

          I know where I stand. The question is, will our elected officials have the courage to stand as well?

          Watching the apparently mindless lemmings show up and cheer on an individual who has lied and deceived an entire nation on its most personal decision, healthcare, is just unconscionable. They are allowing their own freedom and liberty to slip through their fingers.
          To still hear the countless droning of those who will make every excuse for what is blatantly a collapse of integrity and competence is simply astonishing.

          President Obama repeatedly lied to Americans about keeping their healthcare coverage while implementing mandates that made those plans non-compliant. The President then lectured the American people that these plans were not up to his standard, referring to them as junk.

          President Barack Obama constantly shows himself to be a disgrace to America and a clear and present danger to our Republic.
          Read more at http://allenbwest.com/2013/11/actions-dictator/

          Obama's Liberal Socialist House of Cards is finally tumbling down over his big ears.
          Grizz
          Last edited by Grizz; 11-16-2013, 12:25 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
            Insurance is always about redistributing costs. Perhaps you are opposed to insurance in principle.
            It's also about weighing risk. The way car insurance works is very fair. My premium? $63 bucks a month. I drive a sports car, but have a clean driving record. Some other guys premium might be $400 a month because he has a DUI.

            Health insurance used to work like that. You got charged based on how much they predicted you to cost them. My friend with bad diabetes costs them a lot; ergo, she should pay more. Does it suck for her to have to pay more for her healthcare than I do? Probably, but we all have something that creates a higher financial burden for us. It's like the point I made earlier, of course older people should pay more; they cost more but at that life stage, hopefully some other financial burdens have reduced.

            And yup, a lot of the costs of healthcare are caused by people making poor decisions (ie, just like the drunk driver). I know maybe one or two friends who eat healthy (and that's a broad definition) and work out regularly who also have medical conditions that require treatment. OTOH, most people I know with poor diet and no exercise take "meds" and that includes the fat and skinny.

            Oh and don't get me started on "mental health meds". If I had a dollar for every friend I have who gets adderal and Xanax for RECREATIONAL use, i'd be able to afford a policy on the exchange. These people have employer sponsored insurance and go lie about mental health for "fun meds". I sure as hell don't want to pay for that shit.

            So... the old system of self insurance really made you take note of your health and use medical care wisely. Now... what the hell, maybe i'll go get a script for adderal and sell it at raves since using the services won't impact my rates.

            http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
            Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JWBooth View Post
              The ACA makes actual insurance, that is a premium you pay to guard against a catastrophic loss, illegal. That is why it imploding. People who can least afford expensive pre-paid health plans and were reluctant to even buy catastrophic insurance plans in some cases are being asked by the President to buy plans that are more expensive and have higher deductibles. Well, at least they would be asking them that if the damn sites even worked. What the ACA is really trying to do is force people in to is pre-paid health plans, not "insurance". Obama is using the word "insurance" but what he really means is something quite different. What the US needs to do is go back to a system of true insurance (and this requires going back decades). That is the only way you are ever going to get a handle on costs. Well, not the only way- the other option would be a totalitarian police state that regulates health care at the point of a gun.
              No, the ACA doesn't make such plans illegal (in that it doesn't specifically state that doing so is). It does imply that such plans do not met the mandate and that any individual who purchased one would have to pay the penalty, if they purchased only a catastrophic policy. And yes, I know a few people that have and will continue to use such policies through the coming years. Now, if you are going to argue that insurance companies may discontinue offering such policies, due to overall market changes, there may be some merit to that argument.

              Why do we need to go back to a system of "true insurance"? As opposed to the prepaid healthcare system that a lot of people call insurance? And again, how would doing so, get a handle on costs? As from where I stand, I can only see some of the out of pocket costs for the insured decreasing, if they don't have a catastrophic loss. It isn't like this change would change how much doctors, drug companies, hospitals and all of the providers of healthcare get paid, so the actual healthcare costs (to provide it) wouldn't decrease at all. Unless you are arguing that such a change would potentially make it possible that people would take more responsibility for their health and potentially consume less of it.

              There are a few reasonable things that could be done to reduce overall healthcare costs, in my opinion. But, the US healthcare system is complex and all of the systems out there in the developed world have trade offs. From my point of view, some of the simple answers would be to:

              - Introduce tort reform and potentially get a national malpractice insurance exchange
              - That the government (and insurers) provide incentives for healthcare providers to make pricing transparent (so that you can get a cash price for service up front, without having to do a huge run around).
              - I would really like it if the drug companies weren't allowed to advertise (back to the pre-1997 rulings; though I realize that this is a constitutional issue and would be very unlikely to occur)

              But, I have doubts that such would occur. I'm sure that Laz has more than a few other suggestions too.
              turquoisepassion - I MUST KNOW ALL THE THINGS

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                The bolded above is completely invented tripe. Sorry.

                How exactly would I, as a physician in a private practice, "opt out of the ACA"?

                All that it is, in any state, are a few long-standing insurers that have allowed their plans to be sold through the government. In my state it is only BCBS and MVP, both of which pay pretty much 100% of the time with immediate reimbursement. I can only "opt out" in the sense that I will refuse to carry Blue Cross or MVP, which is financially idiotic. It would be like taking car insurance claims without taking State Farm or Allstate....you would only be losing yourself money for no reason.

                Additionally, the idea that the ACA is going to make us "unsure of how they will get reimbursed" is completely made-up horseshit as well.....ask ANY doctor what insurance they love to see at the top of the superbill for a patient, and I would bet 95% will say "medicare".....that is because it is done by the government, not an insurance company whose entire business model depends on not paying me part of the time. If I say they need it and they have Medicare, it gets done, I get paid top dollar, no fuss.

                What doctors DO hate to deal with are the fly-by-night insurers that are totally bare bones, in both prices and benefits. (As an example, I had a patient recently whose "insurance" paid the first FIFTY DOLLARS of a hospital visit, then it was all on them. You can't go pee in the bathroom of a hospital for less than that) When I have my people call these racketeers, you will be getting a 90 min harangue about how they are not paying you.

                Most of these insurers that the ACA is making illegal, many of which can be bought for less than $100 a month, are no different than Joe Pesci's character in "Casino":

                "He had a system. It wasn't very sophisticated, but it worked....when he won, he collected. When he lost, he told the bookies to go F*** themselves."

                This is their business model. I deal with them all the time. Drop you as soon as you actually need much of anything.

                What has happened is that there are a very small number of very ideological healthcare networks and docs that have decided they will not be taking any ACA plans, which do not even exist yet, out of pure political backlash. They are willing to LOSE money to do it, and they make a lot of noise and get themselves onto Fox News for doing it.

                I think the ACA is a terrible idea and a corporatist handout, but none of the GOOD reasons for hating it are ever brought up. All that is ever brought up is single-minded corporatism to combat a law that is also single-minded corporatism to different backers. It is all so sad to me.

                Sorry for the rant and it's not at you at all, just the ideas I see constantly floated around with no educated rebuttal.
                Thanks for that Laz. Lots to think about. Doctors opting out is what I had in mind whe i read this: Private Doctors Stop Accepting Insurance - Business Insider, same with hospitals: Top Hospitals Opt Out of Obamacare - US News and World Report.

                I think the problem is that the media is unsure of what the law is and reports accordingly. Nevertheless, I think ACA government overeach, generational theft and destroys the patient doctor paradigm.

                Comment


                • The major problem with healthcare in the USA is malnutrition for required vitamins & minerals. People are starving for nutrition on Pizza, Burgers & Fries:

                  See this heart warming Testimonial by Susan
                  "I am now a true Iodine believer. I suffered for over 30 years with PCOS, debilitating IBS, chronic allergies and upper respiratory infections,(including six bouts of pneumonia and many more of bronchitis and sinusitis), widespread eczema, fibrocystic breast disease, chronic fatigue and other hypothyroid-like symptoms such as weight gain and depression, asthma, heart arrythmias, and many other minor and chronic issues, finally culminating in Breast Cancer five years ago, and the removal of one ovary due to severe cysts. At one point, a doctor explained to me that we would be looking for one cause for all the problems, rather than many problems in the same body, which made sense. So needless to say, I went from doctor-to-doctor for years, searching for the underlying cause of all these many problems, with not much more than a pat on the hand and a lecture to watch my diet and get more exercise. In the meantime, my marriage, family and entire life were seriously impacted. I finally stumbled across the concept of iodine supplementation on the web — a simple pop-up ad did for me what all those doctors and their fancy degrees could not. Looking at the list of possible symptoms of iodine deficiency was like looking at my own medical history, and I couldn’t start taking it fast enough. After one month on 50mg of iodine, my IBS disappeared, after over 30 years of daily misery. And I mean DISAPPEARED. It was like a miracle for me. My energy picked up significantly. My skin stopped flaking, my hair became shiny again, and I haven’t broken a nail in three months — I’ve never experienced that in my whole life. I have to file them down weekly! My eczema is greatly improved. My one remaining breast is smoother, and less painful around my period. My allergies are also significantly improved, and getting better. My heartbeat is much more regular now. In short, I have seen improvement or complete resolution of nearly ALL of my symptoms, and the improvements continue, after four months now. It truly is amazing. The impact that this small amount of iodine has had on my health cannot be overlooked or overstated. My one continuing hope is that I’ll lose some weight, and I believe that it’s only a matter of time.

                  It’s really a tragedy that most doctors still refuse to believe that iodine can help with these kinds of problems, and, indeed, are afraid to supplement for fear of poisoning their patients. I’ve never felt better in my whole life, taking the kind of dose that many warn will cause a toxic overdose! Ignorance abounds, and I see so many women who clearly suffer from iodine deficiency, and will likely suffer for the rest of their lives, because of this ignorance. I’m so glad I found my own answers, and I hope this will help others to do the same!
                  Do You Need to Supplement Iodine?
                  http://tinyurl.com/Iodine-Handout

                  This is a video testimonial describes a doctor who cured her own Multiple Sclerosis with a strict Paleo Diet.
                  She went from bed ridden to running Marathons. MS Drugs are $5,000 a month, and only slow the progression of disease. A nutrition rich rich diet is superior to drugs for MS!
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjg...e_gdata_player

                  Then we have this Pandoras Box of health problems caused by Wheat
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1362984

                  Grizz
                  Last edited by Grizz; 11-16-2013, 09:38 AM.

                  Comment


                  • @ scotcharu

                    The sentence that really sticks out to me in the second article is this one:
                    "Fully 11 of the 18 hospitals had just one or two carriers."

                    What has happened is a centralization of the insurance industry, all of which started long before Obamacare, in which about 4 companies control almost all of the market. (United, Aetna, Cigna, BCBS) What this has led to is most communities having ONE major carrier that almost all of the local businesses sign onto, as it is the only thing honored nearby.

                    The main fallacy of all of these kind of articles is that no one seems to understand the difference between the ACA and the government exchanges, which are separate. Here is all the ACA really is:
                    1) A set of standards which ALL insurance must meet. (Most are needed, some are retarded and never ironed out because anyone that brought up the changes would get the whole bill re-debated instead of actually fixing anything)
                    2) A government-run exchange, executed with the efficiency of a sloth on an assembly line so far, which offers SOME insurers an opportunity to sell directly to individuals and businesses. The insurance company must VOLUNTARILY enter the exchange, and this is where there is a big problem.....only a few have done so, as there are well-grounded fears that only sick or lower income people not on Medicaid will be the only ones signing up, which equals losses for the company.

                    My point is that a doctor or hospital CAN choose to not accept the exchange-carriers, but that is only a part of the ACA. The fact I will be able to refer anyone for to a PCP for blood testing and it will be FREE to the patient is part of the ACA, whether I take the exchange-carrier or not.

                    Secondly, nothing is stopping anyone from buying insurance from a company that is carried by their local hospital or doctor network.....and many hospitals are not taking the exchange insurance out of again a well-grounded fear that imbursements will be terrible.

                    Here are MY problems with the ACA:
                    1) Imbursements to doctors and hospitals were targeted, which really DOES affect the "doctor/patient paradigm". If it is mandated that I will be getting $400 for a surgery that I used to get $650 for, I will have to see a lot more patients in far less time. Most PCP's must spend no more than ten min in a room to make much any money....targeting reimbursement does not save very much and creates cost increases elsewhere in the system.

                    2) No mandate that the big carriers must enter the exchanges. This was in the original law, and taken out via handouts to the Dems. It won't work if two carriers or one are in it. Doesn't take a scientist to see that.

                    3) Immediately taken off the table that the government could negotiate drug prices with Big Pharma. This is pure greed and political coercion (lobbying), and it would save billions.

                    Please note that this is not how I would fix healthcare, but just these few easy things have made it a terrible roll-out. I think what we will end up with is a government-exchange with expensive plans that are heavily subsidized and used mostly by the middle and lower income citizens, especially sick people. This will make it far too expensive for a young healthy person. Local hospitals will be forced to take it by legislative action, making everyone else's premiums even higher in the profit they are now losing due to having to take such poor payment plans.

                    In other words, more of the same, just one extra "Medicaid lite" for sick people that cannot get covered any other way. It is all so pathetic. The entire thing should have been thrown in the garbage, but instead we just further propped up a greedy and ineffective system....but only an idiot would call that "socialism". That is a corporate-dream, the system I just outlined.
                    "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

                    Comment


                    • The Conservative American Health Care Reform Act

                      Conservatives recognize that patient-centered reforms rooted in free markets are the best way to lower costs and solve problems in our health care system. That is why the Republican Study Committee (RSC) is proud to bring forward a pragmatic, practical, and portable free-market alternative to the current health care system. Simply put, our bill is a better way forward. Specifically, H.R. 3121, the RSC's American Health Care Reform Act:

                      * Fully repeals President Obama's health care law, eliminating billions in taxes and thousands of pages of unworkable regulations and mandates that are driving up health care costs.

                      * Spurs competition to lower health care costs by allowing Americans to purchase health insurance across state lines and enabling small businesses to pool together and get the same buying power as large corporations.

                      * Reforms medical malpractice laws in a common sense way that limits trial lawyer fees and non-economic damages while maintaining strong protections for patients.

                      * Provides tax reform that allows families and individuals to deduct health care costs, just like companies, leveling the playing field and providing all Americans with a standard deduction for health insurance.

                      * Expands access to Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), increasing the amount of pre-tax dollars individuals can deposit into portable savings accounts to be used for health care expenses.

                      * Safeguards individuals with pre-existing conditions from being discriminated against purchasing health insurance by bolstering state-based high risk pools and extending HIPAA guaranteed availability protections.

                      * Protects the unborn by ensuring no federal funding of abortions.

                      * Repeal and Replace Obamacare: It's Time for Reform

                      Obamacare is a train-wreck full of broken promises that is increasing health care costs and interfering with the doctor patient relationship. Obamacare must be stopped. We recently sat down with Americans from across the country to ask their opinions of Obamacare and how it is affecting them in the workplace.

                      There is a better way to the one-size-fits-all approach of Obamacare. That is why the Republican Study Committee (RSC) is proud to bring forward a pragmatic, practical, and portable free-market alternative to the current health care system without the unworkable taxes and mandates forced on American families through the President’s health care law.

                      Complete details:
                      The American Health Care Reform Act | Republican Study Committee (RSC)

                      The republicans are doing a terrible job making people aware that they even have a better healthcare plan.
                      Google even has trouble finding it.

                      Grizz

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JWBooth View Post
                        The ACA makes actual insurance, that is a premium you pay to guard against a catastrophic loss, illegal. That is why it imploding. People who can least afford expensive pre-paid health plans and were reluctant to even buy catastrophic insurance plans in some cases are being asked by the President to buy plans that are more expensive and have higher deductibles. Well, at least they would be asking them that if the damn sites even worked. What the ACA is really trying to do is force people in to is pre-paid health plans, not "insurance". Obama is using the word "insurance" but what he really means is something quite different. What the US needs to do is go back to a system of true insurance (and this requires going back decades). That is the only way you are ever going to get a handle on costs. Well, not the only way- the other option would be a totalitarian police state that regulates health care at the point of a gun.
                        In theory, catastrophic health insurance is a great product, that everyone should own. In practice it was nothing but a ripoff that rarely paid out the benefits it claimed and never saved anyone from bankruptcy, since most extraordinary health expenses didn't qualify.

                        Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                        So... the old system of self insurance really made you take note of your health and use medical care wisely. Now... what the hell, maybe i'll go get a script for adderal and sell it at raves since using the services won't impact my rates.
                        The old system really just kept costs down by rationing health care to those who were judged not to deserve any. It was so expensive to use that 50% of the insured put off doctor visits and treatments annually.

                        You seem to believe that mental health problems are all faked, and the country would be better off if, what? Maybe those people wouldn't have gotten mentally ill if they hadn't chosen it? Maybe living out on the street for a few years will "encourage" those people to make the same moral choice not to be mentally ill that you did?

                        And what about someone who is chronically ill and cannot work, or a family that has one or more disabled members? When you say that "it's not your fault", so it shouldn't cost you anything, you are saying it's their fault.

                        Yeah, you are.

                        Most illnesses are not caused by faulty moral decisions. Being healthy is not a moral choice that you have made, that others should be punished for not making.

                        Comment


                        • What comes next in Obama Care?

                          Video explains 110 million employer plans that will be made illegal by Obama Care after the 2014 elections:
                          Obamacare: What's Next - Tea Party Command Center


                          Obama thinks he is the King and can bypass Congress to make or change laws as he sees fit to suit his FAR Left Socialism political agenda.
                          King Obama Video


                          Impeach Obama

                          Grizz
                          Last edited by Grizz; 11-16-2013, 02:48 PM.

                          Comment


                          • And what about someone who is chronically ill and cannot work, or a family that has one or more disabled members? When you say that "it's not your fault", so it shouldn't cost you anything, you are saying it's their fault.
                            Yes, it's called disability and Medicaid. It costs me money. They cost me money.

                            Problem is some 40% of my income goes to some form of tax. It doesn't leave me a lot to live with. I get like, roads from our government. I feel very badly for these people, but I'm becoming a turnip with no blood left to give. I'm really not a selfish bitch, I'm just tired of so much of my paycheck helping others when I myself do not have an ideal quality of life. I have now close to $20,000 worth of needed dental care I can not afford. So...no, I don't want to pay for Susie's Prozac because she made poor life decisions, since she won't pay for my 2 root canals and 3 implants because I ate sugar for too many years.

                            You know what, I am selfish. Maybe if we were all a little more selfish, we would not be moving towards a nanny state where nothing improves.

                            http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                            Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

                            Comment


                            • IMO, WE HAVE AN OBVIOUS WELL ORGANIZED FRAUD BY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY !
                              Throw these LIARS out of office !

                              An interesting list from a response to an article - perhaps this needs passing on "Now what really matters is this simple list of knuckleheads who liedknowingly? that's for you and the rest of America to decide...)"

                              SEN. HARRY REID (D-Nev.): “In fact, one of our core principles is that if you like the health care you have, you can keep it.” (Sen. Reid,Congressional Record, S.8642, 8/3/09)

                              SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: (D-Ill) “We believe — and we stand by this — if you like your current health insurance plan, you will be able to keep it, plain and simple, straightforward.” (Sen. Durbin, Congressional Record, S.6401, 6/10/09)

                              SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): “If you like your insurance, you keep it.” (U.S. Senate, Finance Committee, Bill Mark-Up, 9/29/09)

                              SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D-Wash.): “Again, if you like what you have, you will be able to keep it. Let me say this again: If you like what you have, when our legislation is passed and signed by the President, you will be able to keep it.” (Sen. Murray, Congressional Record, S.6400, 6/10/09)

                              SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D-Mont.): “That is why one of the central promises of health care reform has been and is: If you like what you have, you can keep it. That is critically important. If a person has a plan, and he or she likes it, he or she can keep it.” (Sen. Baucus, Congressional Record, S.7676, 9/29/10)

                              SEN. TOM HARKIN (D-Iowa): “One of the things we put in the health care bill when we designed it was the protection for consumers to keep the plan they have if they like it; thus, the term ‘grandfathered plans.’ If you have a plan you like — existing policies — you can keep them. … we said, if you like a plan, you get to keep it, and you can grandfather it in.” (Sen. Harkin, Congressional Record, S.7675-6, 9/29/10)

                              THEN-REP. TAMMY BALDWIN (D-Wis.): “Under the bill, if you like the insurance you have now, you may keep it and it will improve.” (Rep. Baldwin, Press Release, 3/18/10)

                              SEN. MARK BEGICH (D-Alaska): “If you got a doctor now, you got a medical professional you want, you get to keep that. If you have an insurance program or a health care policy you want of ideas, make sure you keep it. That you can keep who you want.” (Sen. Begich, Townhall Event, 7/27/09)

                              SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-Colo.): “We should begin with a basic principle: if you have coverage and you like it, you can keep it. If you have your doctor, and you like him or her, you should be able to keep them as well. We will not take that choice away from you.” (Sen. Bennet, Press Release, 6/11/09)

                              SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D-Calif.): “So we want people to be able to keep the health care they have. And the answer to that is choice of plans. And in the exchange, we're going to have lots of different plans, and people will be able to keep the health care coverage they need and they want.” (Sen. Boxer, Press Release, 2/8/11)

                              SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D-Ohio): “Our bill says if you have health insurance and you like it, you can keep it…”(Sen. Brown, Congressional Record, S.12612, 12/7/09)

                              SEN. BEN CARDIN (D-Md.): “For the people of Maryland, this bill will provide a rational way in which they can maintain their existing coverage…” (Sen. Cardin, Congressional Record, S.13798, 12/23/09)

                              SEN. BOB CASEY (D-Pa.): “I also believe this legislation and the bill we are going to send to President Obama this fall will also have secure choices. If you like what you have, you like the plan you have, you can keep it. It is not going to change.” (Sen. Casey, Congressional Record, S.8070, 7/24/09)

                              SEN. KAY HAGAN (D-N.C.): ‘People who have insurance they're happy with can keep it’ “We need to support the private insurance industry so that people who have insurance they're happy with can keep it while also providing a backstop option for people without access to affordable coverage.” (“Republicans Vent As Other Compromise Plans Get Aired,”
                              National Journal’s Congress Daily, 6/18/09)

                              SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D-La.): “If you like the insurance that you have, you'll be able to keep it.” (MSNBC’s Hardball, 12/16/09)

                              SEN. PAT LEAHY (D-Vt.): “[I]f you like the insurance you now have, keep the insurance you have.” (CNN’s “Newsroom,” 10/22/09)

                              SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-N.J.): “If you like what you have, you get to keep it” “Menendez is a member of the Senate Finance Committee, which is expected to release a bill later this week. He stressed that consumers who are satisfied with their plans won't have to change. ‘If you like what you have, you get to keep it,’ he said.” (“Health Care Plan Would Help N.J., Menendez Says,” The Record, 6/19/09)

                              SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-Oreg.): “[E]nsuring that those who like their insurance get to keep it” “The HELP Committee bill sets forward a historic plan that will, for the first time in American history, give every American access to affordable health coverage, reduce costs, and increase choice, while ensuring that those who like their insurance get to keep it.” (Sen. Merkley, Press Release, 7/15/09)

                              SEN. BARBARA MIKULSKI (D-Md.): “It means that if you like the insurance you have now, you can keep it.” (Sen. Mikulski, Press Release,12/24/09)
                              SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D-W.Va.): “I want people to know, the President's promise that if you like the coverage you have today you can keep it is a pledge we intend to keep.” (U.S. Senate, Finance Committee, Hearing, 9/23/09)

                              SEN. JACK REED (D-R.I.): “If you like the insurance you have, you can choose to keep it.” (Sen. Reed, Town Hall Event, 6/25/09)

                              SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-Vt.): “‘If you have coverage you like, you can keep it,’ says Sen. Sanders.” (“Sick And Wrong,” Rolling Stone, 4/5/10)

                              SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-N.H.): ‘if you have health coverage that you like, you get to keep it’ “My understanding … is that … if you have health coverage that you like you can keep it. As I said, you may have missed my remarks at the beginning of the call, but one of the things I that I said as a requirement that I have for supporting a bill is that
                              if you have health coverage that you like you should be able to keep that. …under every scenario that I’ve seen, if you have health coverage that you like, you get to keep it.” (Sen. Shaheen, “Health Care Questions From Across New Hampshire,” Accessed 11/13/13)

                              SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW (D-Mich.): “As someone who has a large number of large employers in my state, one of the things I appreciate about the chairman's mark is — is the grandfathering provisions, the fact that the people in my state, 60 percent of whom have insurance, are going to be able to keep it. And Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that. That's a strong
                              commitment. It's clear in the bill … I appreciate the strong commitment on your part and the president to make sure that if you have your insurance you can keep it. That's the bottom line for me.” (U.S. Senate,Finance Committee, Bill Mark-Up, 9/24/09)

                              SEN. JON TESTER (D-Mont.): “‘If you like your coverage, you'll be able to keep it,’ Tester said, adding that if Medicare changes, it will only become stronger”. (“Tester In Baker To Discuss Health Care,” The Fallon County Times, 11/20/09)

                              SEN. TOM UDALL (D-N.Mex.): “Some worried reform would alter their current coverage. It won't. If you like your current plan, you can keep it.” (“What I Learned: About Health Care Reform This Summer, By Your Lawmakers In Congress,” Albuquerque Journal, 9/8/09)

                              SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-R.I.): “…it honors President Obama’s programs and the promise of all of the Presidential candidates that if you like the plan you have, you get to keep it. You are not forced out of anything.”(Sen. Whitehouse, Congressional Record, S.8668, 8/3/09)

                              Chuck Todd: White House Knows Obama Doesn't Have Power for Obamacare 'Fix'

                              Grizz
                              Last edited by Grizz; 11-16-2013, 06:58 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                                Yes, it's called disability and Medicaid. It costs me money. They cost me money.

                                Problem is some 40% of my income goes to some form of tax. It doesn't leave me a lot to live with. I get like, roads from our government. I feel very badly for these people, but I'm becoming a turnip with no blood left to give. I'm really not a selfish bitch, I'm just tired of so much of my paycheck helping others when I myself do not have an ideal quality of life. I have now close to $20,000 worth of needed dental care I can not afford. So...no, I don't want to pay for Susie's Prozac because she made poor life decisions, since she won't pay for my 2 root canals and 3 implants because I ate sugar for too many years.

                                You know what, I am selfish. Maybe if we were all a little more selfish, we would not be moving towards a nanny state where nothing improves.
                                Magnolia,
                                All of this socialism is driving friends of mine into leaving the country ! They like keeping most of their salary to spend on themselves. From things they are telling my wife & I, we are thinking of following them.

                                We fled Illinois because of rocketing property taxes and moved to Florida. Then we fled Florida for Tennessee after 5 years because of rocketing property taxes. So far, our property taxes are still very reasonable after 8 years. If Tennessee goes crazy with taxes, I don't know where to move to next.

                                USA the land of Stifling Taxation and getting worse every year. May God help us all if Obama is not impeached ASAP. He is reportedly working secretly in the shadows to Destroy America. At this rate we will ALL be on welfare!

                                Grizz
                                Last edited by Grizz; 11-16-2013, 07:15 PM.

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