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  • I think the problem is that we are not a free market. We are not capitalist, by definition, despite saying we are and we haven't really been, well, ever. We are a corporatist economy and it's a problem not because large monopolies exist, but because large monopolies can essentially set their own legislation. Big Pharma writes law. Banks write law. Often the industries that write law and up with government grants and other monies and they end up doing business in a way that the government wants (environmental "research" is a great example of this).

    What you propose is interesting from a theoretical perspective, but, in my opinion, ultimately the problem with it is that it's against man's nature. Man is selfish and because of it, society always trends towards socialism. For every person that wants to work and make something of himself, there are two more that will sit and do nothing if they're allowed to. History shows this. Even a reset would merely postpone the inevitable. There will always be people richer than others, stronger than others and smarter than others.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Catharsis View Post
      I think the problem is that we are not a free market. We are not capitalist, by definition, despite saying we are and we haven't really been, well, ever. We are a corporatist economy and it's a problem not because large monopolies exist, but because large monopolies can essentially set their own legislation. Big Pharma writes law. Banks write law. Often the industries that write law and up with government grants and other monies and they end up doing business in a way that the government wants (environmental "research" is a great example of this).

      What you propose is interesting from a theoretical perspective, but, in my opinion, ultimately the problem with it is that it's against man's nature. Man is selfish and because of it, society always trends towards socialism. For every person that wants to work and make something of himself, there are two more that will sit and do nothing if they're allowed to. History shows this. Even a reset would merely postpone the inevitable. There will always be people richer than others, stronger than others and smarter than others.
      With Obama & his Comrades in power, we are going directly into Communism !

      Grizz

      Comment


      • I don't see how you could think that I would desire any other order; my point is that merely political victories and deregulation would only empower the corporate boards that already employ the government and own everything.
        "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

        Jack london, "Before Adam"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
          I don't see how you could think that I would desire any other order; my point is that merely political victories and deregulation would only empower the corporate boards that already employ the government and own everything.
          Wow.....you made that connection. So few so-called "libertarians" ever do.

          The reality is that simply voiding regulations, many of which were in fact PUT THERE by corporations as a means of monopolizing their profits, is a pointless endeavor if done under existing power structures....if one were to advocate the voiding of all subsidies, tax loopholes, and especially the "regulations" that are actually entrance barriers to competition, and THEN setup a free market, I am all ears.

          @Grizz
          That was not remotely picking a fight. I believe that the idea that Obama is some kind of radical is without a basis in reality, and that branding him as anything unique only further empowers their ilk. I dislike ANY demonizing of a single party, politician, or movement.....the system is not broken. It was MEANT to work this way. (stolen from the very resourceful j3nn!)

          If any of it is laid out without regard to political party, it becomes clear that the corporate interests have gotten whatever was most beneficial to them at every step. NAFTA, GAFTA, Medicare Part D, the S&L crisis response, Dot-com bubble, TARP, auto bailout....and Obamacare. All the same. Party is a farce.

          Placing the blame on the "Tea Party" or the "Progressives" misses the point entirely.
          "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

          Comment


          • There is only one thing left to do....
            Find a way to blame BUSH for the Obama Care Disaster
            !


            This is a hilarious spoof on Obama Care


            Grizz

            Comment


            • Late-Night Comedians’ Best Jokes Mocking Obamacare

              ROFLOL



              It is so hilarious because it is all true !
              Especially the 1st joke when O'Bama is caught saying Obama Care is working really good !

              Grizz

              Comment


              • Obamacare shock: $12,600 deductible, 40 percent co-pay, zero competition

                The Obamacare system applicants are being slapped with rate shock, including savings-sapping deductibles and co-pays, according to multiple reports from around the country.

                For some able to get the problem-plagued Obamacare website to work, the so-called “deals” the system is coughing up around the country include $12,600 deductibles, co-pays of up to 40 percent, zero competition, and rate hikes of 260 percent.
                Obamacare shock: $12,600 deductible, 40 percent co-pay, zero competition | WashingtonExaminer.com

                Plans with the least expensive monthly premiums -- highlighted by state and federal officials as proof the new law will keep costs low for consumers -- have deductibles as high as $6,350 for individuals and $12,700 for families, the highest levels allowed under the law.
                http://www.gopusa.com/news/2013/10/1...e-deductibles/

                It is clear that "Affordable Care Act" is a BIG LIE. It is unaffordable on every count. Getting a $12,700 deductible out of many families will be like getting blood from a turnip and Hospitals will be stuck with the bill.

                I am going to try & find some good articles on the crippling deductibles being forced on people. This seems to be one of the worst horrors. If you have found some good articles on this horror, please post them for us,

                Grizz
                Last edited by Grizz; 10-28-2013, 08:39 AM.

                Comment


                • DOCTORS, HOSPITALS DEMANDING PATIENTS PAY ENTIRE DEDUCTIBLE UP FRONT THANKS TO OBAMACARE

                  The rocky rollout of Obamacare isn’t limited to website problems. According to a report from Bloomberg, many doctors and clinics are now demanding that people pay the entire deductible on their insurance before they will be seen. Obamacare will increase that practice, since a huge number of plans under Obamacare have low premiums with huge deductibles.
                  Doctors, Hospitals Demanding Patients Pay Entire Deductible Up Front Thanks to Obamacare

                  This horror story just keeps getting worse by the day !
                  What would happen if EVERYONE refused to sign up for this insane plan? As in a National Strike!

                  Grizz
                  Last edited by Grizz; 10-28-2013, 09:25 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                    NeckHammer,
                    You are entitled to you opinion.....
                    Where did I state my opinion? I just relayed what is happening in my neck of the woods. Your posts read like a bad edition of The National Enquirer.... "Trader terrorist two headed liberal fathers the anti-christ and kicks puppies". It would actually be funny if you weren't so emotionally attached to it all.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                      I don't see how you could think that I would desire any other order; my point is that merely political victories and deregulation would only empower the corporate boards that already employ the government and own everything.
                      We're talking about two different things. You're talking about policy in our current system of Keynesian Corporatism and I'm talking about the free market we should have been, from an Austrian school of thought in which government would never be allowed to be large enough for significant regulation in the first place. No environmental regulation, no FDA, DEA or IRS. Our current system is a mess in my opinion. Government regulation has led to crisis after crisis, from inflation, to bad lending practices, to bail outs, and our poor health as a nation just to name a few.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                        DOCTORS, HOSPITALS DEMANDING PATIENTS PAY ENTIRE DEDUCTIBLE UP FRONT THANKS TO OBAMACARE

                        The rocky rollout of Obamacare isn’t limited to website problems. According to a report from Bloomberg, many doctors and clinics are now demanding that people pay the entire deductible on their insurance before they will be seen. Obamacare will increase that practice, since a huge number of plans under Obamacare have low premiums with huge deductibles.
                        Doctors, Hospitals Demanding Patients Pay Entire Deductible Up Front Thanks to Obamacare

                        This horror story just keeps getting worse by the day !
                        What would happen if EVERYONE refused to sign up for this insane plan? As in a National Strike!

                        Grizz
                        More bullshit. It is actually illegal to require a person to pay co-insurance or deductible PRIOR to being seen, and every doctor or biller knows this.
                        Last edited by Neckhammer; 10-28-2013, 09:32 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                          Goldensparrow,
                          You are right. There was some distortion in that 1st message I posted, and I do apologize. However, most of those points were accurate. I have been very careful to post messages that are as accurate as possible.

                          In actual fact, the fine for refusing ObamaCare starts at $95 OR a % of your income, whichever is MORE, with a cap !

                          Fox news was discussing this very subject this morning. Here are the details:

                          For 2014 the penalty is:
                          1% of your taxable income or $95 per adult AND $47.50 per child, whichever is MORE or a MAX of $285 per family
                          For 2015 the penalty is:
                          2% of your taxable income or $325 per adult AND $162.50 per child, whichever is MORE or a MAX of $975 per family

                          So for an average family of 2 adults & 2 children earning $50,000 a year
                          2014 penalty = $500 (1%) or 284.90 (2 adults, 2 children) - you pay $285 per month.
                          2015 penalty = $1,000 (2%) or $975 (2 adults, 2 children) - You pay $975 per month.
                          Complete details here:
                          Obamacare Individual Mandate

                          Video here with ALL the details, exceptions, iff's and's & wherefore's - Very complicated even in this video:
                          How much are the Obamacare tax penalties? - YouTube

                          This is the best information I have at this time. If you find anything better, please post it here,
                          Grizz
                          Grizz - the penalties are per year, not per month and are due with your taxes.
                          https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-s...erage-in-2014/

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Catharsis View Post
                            Grizz - the penalties are per year, not per month and are due with your taxes.
                            https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-s...erage-in-2014/
                            Thanks, I was pretty sure about that.
                            Depression Lies

                            Comment


                            • Thank you for your correction. I'll edit my post.

                              Your link & my link are totally different. Using your link this is provided:

                              The penalty in 2014 is calculated one of 2 ways. You’ll pay whichever of these amounts is higher:

                              * 1% of your yearly household income. The maximum penalty is the national average yearly premium for a bronze plan.

                              * $95 per person for the year ($47.50 per child under 18). The maximum penalty per family using this method is $285.

                              * The fee increases every year. In 2015 it’s 2% of income or $325 per person. In 2016 and later years it’s 2.5% of income or $695 per person. After that it is adjusted for inflation.
                              They GET US on the % of annual income. If our Net Income is $100,000 then our penalty is $1,000 in 2014 & $2,000 in 2015

                              They get you on the % of your net income. If you have a substantial income they say the CAP is the national average cost of the Bronze plan.

                              I think I like this chart the best:

                              individual-mandate.jpg

                              http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-...al-mandate.php

                              Grizz
                              Last edited by Grizz; 10-28-2013, 12:03 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                                More bullshit. It is actually illegal to require a person to pay co-insurance or deductible PRIOR to being seen, and every doctor or biller knows this.
                                What?! My husband had surgery recently and yes they required everything up front....if they can do that then this isnt that much more of a stretch. And I see the effects of Obamacare on a daily basis and can vouch for the principles behind this thread....it isnt National Enquirer BS ....it is socialism....period.

                                Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

                                Comment

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