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  • 20131026_obamacare.jpg

    AND you are required to pay TOP DOLLAR for this flight !

    Bwahahahaha - Mwahahahahaha (Obama Laughing)

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 10-26-2013, 01:59 PM.

    Comment


    • @ Grizz.....I will try this one more time. Again, there are 2 questions, only 2.

      You keep on putting things up about the Constitution, and Obama's supposed distaste for it. So I pose this:
      1) What was the last Presidential administration that followed the Constitution at all, in your view?

      Obamacare's main transgression, the individual mandate, began in the early 90's as a Republican platform idea....this leads to
      2) What policies has Obama STARTED that are of significance, that have no precedence in history?

      Please understand that I spent about 300 hours volunteering to unseat Obama in 2012, and did not vote for him of course in either election.

      My point is that the right has a made-up version of Obama, that he is some kind of radical....he isn't. He is another representation of how we do things, and how we have done them for a very long time. In short, Obama is how we roll. He is how we have rolled since about 1980....he is a corporatist technocrat, in the mold of Reagan and Clinton.

      There is all of this talk about fearing we will get a one-party system. I have news; we are already there....we have ONE party, with two wings. The objective is to create the illusion of actual differences, in order to get people like Grizz and the left-wing crazies to hate each other. I can go on Democratic Underground and see legion of left-oriented Grizz characters. The will post vids and sources from MSNBC and Huffington Post, while Grizz picks Fox or Drudge Report....my reply to both sides is the same. It is all very useful anger for the powerful, as it maintains the illusion that all one side needs to do is eliminate the other....anything to keep the eyes off of the actual people behind the curtain.

      Please answer those 2 questions. I am very curious as to your viewpoint.
      "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
        Facebook comments on Obama Care experiences:

        The following are 21 of the best comments that have been posted on the official Healthcare.gov Facebook page so far…

        Needless to say, there are a whole lot of very frustrated and very disappointed people out there right now.

        21. “I am so disappointed. These prices are outrageous and there are huge deductibles. No one can afford this!”

        20. “Good grief. Day three of trying and still can’t get on this website. The government KNEW about this thing going live for two years. TWO YEARS! And this is the best they could do? I shudder to think what’s going to happen once they are in control of my healthcare. They can’t even get their website functioning properly. If my business had rolled out a piece of crap that worked like this I’d be out of business.”

        19. “How is it that Facebook, which is a non-essential social networking web site, can reliably handle BILLIONS of electronic interactions per second, but the Healthcare.gov site, which is literally the very heart of the Obamacare program wasn’t ready for the obvious millions of visitors that you had to know it would be receiving?”

        18. “i’m just going to stop even bothering for a couple weeks or so… once the fervor dies down, hopefully i’ll be able to actually create an account!”

        17. “The Federal Gov’t has ruined everything it has gotten involved in, does anybody really expect this healthcare disaster to be any different? Sorry, I’ll take the asinine fine.”

        16. “And yet another day and several tries I once again keep getting nothing but a completely blank page after I log in. The top tab says ‘Successful URL’. Oh how ironic.”

        15. “Didn’t these Feds ever have mothers that told them not to lie? Maybe they were raised in the wild. This system is trash. I can’t verify my identity or upload documents. Also what’s with Experian verifying ID’s? Don’t care for that at all.”

        14. “I am a single mother of two, in school and working full time, living 75% below the poverty level and I DO NOT qualify for a healthcare subsidy”

        13. “the website can’t verify my identity…the people at the experian verification number can’t verify my identity either….i tried to upload a scan of my driver’s license, and that won’t work either……very annoying process…….i’ve wasted 3 days on this junk.”

        12. “if you’re stupid enough to put all your banking information in to the federal governments computers you are definitely part of the problem”

        11. “Where the HELL am I supposed to get $3,000 more a year to pay for this “bronze” health insurance plan!?!??? And I DO NOT EVEN WANT INSURANCE to begin with!! This is frightening.”

        10. “I have one question. What happens if I can’t afford the Affordable Health Care that you are cramming down my throat? I just ran your calculator, and if it is even close to accurate, I will have a choice…..I can pay my rent and buy groceries, or I can pay the health care premiums, move out into the streets and live under a bridge some where, and go hungry! Can I please get one of those exemption things that the President and Congress got?”

        9. “I’ve been stuck at the security questions since 9am on October 1st”

        8. “Death Panels. Yes. The red plan. It’s affordable. And painless!”

        7. “Here in Austin, TX have gotten to login screen three times today, wait is getting shorter, but am still getting
        a blank screen after getting a quick ‘authenticating, please wait’ message at top left of screen, then nothing but a blank white page and no indication that the browser is waiting for the server to do anything. Attempts to refresh the screen sends me back to the please wait screen.”

        6. “I finally got past the security question problem, got my account, my verification email, and when I went to log in, it said the information was invalid.”

        5. “I want to know how I am expected to pay $300+ for this and still pay my bills when the only income is $710 a month from my husband’s SSI? Am i supposed to lose my home and water and electricity or go to jail because I can’t afford this?”

        4. “Government forces people to pay a new tax. People click on website to see how much this new tax will cost them. Website crashes in the first hour. Government calls it a huge success.”

        3. “I work a minimum wage job…how the heck can I afford health insurance and if the company doesn’t give full time? I am so angry right now…. I share housing with others because I can’t afford my own place… how do you expect people to afford obamacare if they barely get by from paycheck to paycheck????? I can’t afford a fine either! I think you are obligated to give the American people an answer and an explanation!”

        2. “Y’all can kiss my butt. You got that? You want my bank account? I’ll close it. You put a lien on my house? Take it…and the mortgage too. Some things are worth fighting for, and freedom is one of them! I am sick and tired of the redistribution strategies of this socialist country and having my wages STOLEN to pay for them!”

        1. The best comment was posted by a man named Will Sheehan with type 1 diabetes who was initially very excited to sign up for Obamacare. But what he discovered while trying to sign up was absolutely horrifying…
        I actually made it through this morning at 8:00 A.M. I have a preexisting condition (Type 1 Diabetes) and my income base was 45K-55K annually I chose tier 2 “Silver Plan” and my monthly premiums came out to $597.00 with $13,988 yearly deductible!!! There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I “opt-out” and chose to continue along with no insurance.
        I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me that my fine would be $4,037 and could be attached to my yearly income tax return. Then you make it to the “REPERCUSSIONS PORTION” for “non-payment” of yearly fine. First, your drivers license will be suspended until paid, and if you go 24 consecutive months with “Non-Payment” and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home. You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy “Automatically withdraw” your “penalties” weekly, bi-weekly or monthly! This by no means is “Free” or even “Affordable.”
        You can see a screenshot of his comment below…

        More here:
        21 Of The Best Comments Posted By Frustrated Americans On The Official Obamacare Facebook Page | SilverDoctors.com

        What are your real life experiences with Obama Care?

        Grizz
        Hey Grizz, you're doing a great thing here still, but I want to win this based on truth as I'm sure you do too. Remember that I'm an agent....not that it means much these days.....but the number one guy Will Sheehan or whatever isn't telling the truth from what I've been trained on thus far. The fine is only $95 this year 2014. Were they tallying the fine for the years to come I wonder? Cause it does go up each year, but I'm pretty sure for a single person it is capped at lower than $4k. Also, the IRS has no authority to collect the fine except via tax return. No tax return, no fine....so I'm told. Can you show me something that says otherwise? I really need to know if so. I'm not saying my stuff is 100% gospel either cause this thing has been in the making for four years, and I swear the rules change everyday. Even the carriers I represent kept almost everything hush hush for fear of repercussions. It has been hard to get the truth on anything.....but that's the government for you. Like nailing jello to a wall. Thanks Grizz.

        Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Goldensparrow View Post
          Hey Grizz, you're doing a great thing here still, but I want to win this based on truth as I'm sure you do too. Remember that I'm an agent....not that it means much these days.....but the number one guy Will Sheehan or whatever isn't telling the truth from what I've been trained on thus far. The fine is only $95 this year 2014. Were they tallying the fine for the years to come I wonder? Cause it does go up each year, but I'm pretty sure for a single person it is capped at lower than $4k. Also, the IRS has no authority to collect the fine except via tax return. No tax return, no fine....so I'm told. Can you show me something that says otherwise? I really need to know if so. I'm not saying my stuff is 100% gospel either cause this thing has been in the making for four years, and I swear the rules change everyday. Even the carriers I represent kept almost everything hush hush for fear of repercussions. It has been hard to get the truth on anything.....but that's the government for you. Like nailing jello to a wall. Thanks Grizz.
          Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
          Goldensparrow,
          You are right. There was some distortion in that 1st message I posted, and I do apologize. However, most of those points were accurate. I have been very careful to post messages that are as accurate as possible.

          In actual fact, the fine for refusing ObamaCare starts at $95 OR a % of your income, whichever is MORE, with a cap !

          Fox news was discussing this very subject this morning. Here are the details:

          Complete details here:
          Obamacare Individual Mandate

          Video here with ALL the details, exceptions, iff's and's & wherefore's - Very complicated even in this video:
          How much are the Obamacare tax penalties? - YouTube

          This is the best information I have at this time. This is too confusing & I think my interpretation is flawed.
          I will have to find a better link that is not so confusing.

          See this link for correct information on the penalty:
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1349437

          If you find anything better, please post it here,
          Grizz
          Last edited by Grizz; 10-28-2013, 12:09 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
            Goldensparrow,
            You are right. There was some distortion in that 1st message I posted, and I do apologize. However, most of those points were accurate. I have been very careful to post messages that are as accurate as possible.

            In actual fact, the fine for refusing ObamaCare starts at $95 OR a % of your income, whichever is MORE, with a cap !

            Fox news was discussing this very subject this morning. Here are the details:

            For 2014 the penalty is:
            1% of your taxable income or $95 per adult AND $47.50 per child, whichever is MORE or a MAX of $285 per family
            For 2015 the penalty is:
            2% of your taxable income or $325 per adult AND $162.50 per child, whichever is MORE or a MAX of $975 per family

            So for an average family of 2 adults & 2 children earning $50,000 a year
            2014 penalty = $500 (1%) or 284.90 (2 adults, 2 children) - you pay $285 per month.
            2015 penalty = $1,000 (2%) or $975 (2 adults, 2 children) - You pay $975 per month.
            Complete details here:
            Obamacare Individual Mandate

            Video here with ALL the details, exceptions, iff's and's & wherefore's - Very complicated even in this video:
            How much are the Obamacare tax penalties? - YouTube

            This is the best information I have at this time. If you find anything better, please post it here,
            Grizz
            Thanks Grizz! You da man! :-)

            I was actually just about to reply with those same penalties....I found the percentages this morning. 2014 won't be a big deal for people but 2015 is going to hurt at a thousand a month. Although many plans will be at least that expensive especially since you can only buy catastrophic coverage if you're under 30.

            I still think many people who want coverage and are subsidy eligible are going to force their employers to eventually stop offering it, so they can get their subsidy and have cheaper insurance. That's just what I'm seeing here based on SC rates, which aren't as high as elsewhere. Many clients are upset that their employer offers it, but it still isn't affordable.....this is mainly young people by the way, due to the high cost from the older people on the group plans. The old people are eventually going to be left out in the cold. Hope you're sticking to Primal for your best chance at survival right?

            Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
              @ Grizz.....I will try this one more time. Again, there are 2 questions, only 2.

              You keep on putting things up about the Constitution, and Obama's supposed distaste for it. So I pose this:
              1) What was the last Presidential administration that followed the Constitution at all, in your view?

              Obamacare's main transgression, the individual mandate, began in the early 90's as a Republican platform idea....this leads to
              2) What policies has Obama STARTED that are of significance, that have no precedence in history?

              Please understand that I spent about 300 hours volunteering to unseat Obama in 2012, and did not vote for him of course in either election.

              My point is that the right has a made-up version of Obama, that he is some kind of radical....he isn't. He is another representation of how we do things, and how we have done them for a very long time. In short, Obama is how we roll. He is how we have rolled since about 1980....he is a corporatist technocrat, in the mold of Reagan and Clinton.

              There is all of this talk about fearing we will get a one-party system. I have news; we are already there....we have ONE party, with two wings. The objective is to create the illusion of actual differences, in order to get people like Grizz and the left-wing crazies to hate each other. I can go on Democratic Underground and see legion of left-oriented Grizz characters. The will post vids and sources from MSNBC and Huffington Post, while Grizz picks Fox or Drudge Report....my reply to both sides is the same. It is all very useful anger for the powerful, as it maintains the illusion that all one side needs to do is eliminate the other....anything to keep the eyes off of the actual people behind the curtain.
              Please answer those 2 questions. I am very curious as to your viewpoint.
              Lazarus,
              I understand you are trying to pick a fight, and I am not going there. Instead we can discuss points that we agree on.

              I think we can agree on the following points:
              1) The USA has been drifting toward socialism since the 1930's when Social Security was started.
              2) Then came the Medicare, more creeping socialism
              3) Then followed by an ever growing Welfare state to the point that 50% of our population is now receiving handouts
              4) Now nearly 50 MILLION people are getting food stamps or equivalent ! ! !
              5) Now Obama is completing the ultimate drift into socialism with Obamacare at the point of a gun.

              We can both agree that something HAD to be done with runaway health care costs. Both political parties wanted to find answers, but it took the relatively new Progressive Party to ramrod its liberal agenda through Congress.

              Here we have a fatally broken system becoming the Law of the Land.

              I predict the broken system will be fixed and compromises will be made to make it muddle through. Our political system has never been perfect, and never will be. We fight, bicker & there is always controversy. But we muddle through. We have ALWAYS muddled through, with things like WWII, Korea, Vietnam, LBJ, Carter, etc, etc. And I predict we will muddle through the Broken Obama Care, with each political party contributing as best it can.

              There is no point in talking about Republicans vs Democrats anymore. They are gone! Forget the old political parties of the Democrats & Republicans. They have morphed into the NEW political parties. The NEW political parties are the extreme left Progressive Democrats of America and the extreme right Tea Party members of the GOP.
              Progressives have already taken over the old Democratic Party in 2004: Progressive Democrats of America & its policies here:
              Progressive Democrats of America
              Tea Party Conservatives are taking over the old Republican Party
              Tea Party - Join the Movement. Support the Tea Party.
              The old fogey republicans will be tossed out & replaced with new younger Tea Party candidates.

              After the recent shutdown debacle & the progressives refusing to negotiate, I predict a LANDSLIDE victories for the Teaparty movement in coming years.Extreme HATRED for Obamacare is already taking root, and will contribute to the Teaparty victories. IMO, Obamacare marks a political turning point in the USA.

              Grizz

              Comment


              • Saturday Night Live 10/26/13 had a HILARIOUS parody of Kathleen Sabelius explaining Obama Care at the beginning of the show. It was so funny I was literally rolling on the floor laughing!

                I've tried getting the link to post here, but it is already totally censored. I'll keep trying to find a working link. If anyone can find that SNL link please post it for me. It is a GEMSTONE of humor.

                AHA! I found some links that should work ( for now ). Watch quickly before they get deleted.
                http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/...ealthcare-gov/
                http://redalertpolitics.com/2013/10/...e-gov-to-work/
                http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...amacare-651110

                Google "SNL kathleen sebelius" to find more links if these get deleted.
                Grizz
                Last edited by Grizz; 10-27-2013, 01:03 PM.

                Comment


                • (Daily Caller) – First Lady Michelle Obama’s Princeton classmate is a top executive at the company that earned the contract to build the failed Obamacare website.

                  Toni Townes-Whitley, Princeton class of ’85, is senior vice president at CGI Federal, which earned the no-bid contract to build the $678 million Obamacare enrollment website at Healthcare.gov. CGI Federal is the U.S. arm of a Canadian company.

                  Townes-Whitley and her Princeton classmate Michelle Obama are both members of the Association of Black Princeton Alumni.

                  Toni Townes ’85 is a onetime policy analyst with the General Accounting Office and previously served in the Peace Corps in Gabon, West Africa. Her decision to return to work, as an African-American woman, after six years of raising kids was applauded by a Princeton alumni publication in 1998

                  George Schindler, the president for U.S. and Canada of the Canadian-based CGI Group, CGI Federal’s parent company, became an Obama 2012 campaign donor after his company gained the Obamacare website contract.

                  As reported by the Washington Examiner in early October, the Department of Health and Human Services reviewed only CGI’s bid for the Obamacare account. CGI was one of 16 companies qualified under the Bush administration to provide certain tech services to the federal government. A senior vice president for the company testified this week before The House Committee on Energy and Commerce that four companies submitted bids, but did not name those companies or explain why only CGI’s bid was considered.

                  On the government end, construction of the disastrous Healthcare.gov website was overseen by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), a division of longtime failed website-builder Kathleen Sebelius’ Department of Health and Human Services.

                  Michelle Obama's Princeton classmate was Obamacare website builder | The Daily Caller

                  Do we smell CRONYISM HERE ????? NO BID CONTRACT ? ? WTF
                  Grizz

                  Comment


                  • Serious Legal Glitch "Has The Potential To Sink Obamacare"

                    a potentially major "legal glitch" could cause the healthcare law to unravel in 36 states. As the LA Times reports, The Affordable Care Act proposes to make health insurance affordable to millions of low-income Americans by offering them tax credits to help cover the cost. To receive the credit, the law twice says they must buy insurance "through an exchange established by the state." But 36 states have decided against opening exchanges .... Critics of the law have seized on the glitch & have filed four lawsuits that urge judges to rule the Obama administration must abide by the strict wording of the law, even if doing so dismantles it in nearly two-thirds of the states. And the Obama administration has no hope of repairing the glitch by legislation as long as the Republicans control the House... Rest of this sensational story here:
                    Legal Glitch "Has The Potential To Sink Obamacare" | Zero Hedge

                    The Teaparty may WIN THE DAY & FORCE O'Bama to negotiate after all !

                    Grizz

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Grizz View Post

                      After the recent shutdown debacle & the progressives refusing to negotiate, I predict a LANDSLIDE victories for the Teaparty movement in coming years.Extreme HATRED for Obamacare is already taking root, and will contribute to the Teaparty victories. IMO, Obamacare marks a political turning point in the USA.

                      Grizz
                      Maybe were you live that is the vibe. I don't know. Seems quite the opposite around me.... Not that I agree either way, but round here seems like most are blaming the Tea Party for throwing a temper tantrum at the last minute and shutting down the government when they could not get their way legally.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                        I am a physician, so I figure I have something worse contributing here....

                        -- "Personal responsibility" is not a realistic argument in regards to healthcare, for as much as I propagate it in other things. Someone can be responsible all day long, but when they get hit by a bus or have a massive heart attack, the time and costs associated cannot be handled by one person, or family. Everyone is all about being responsible, until their family member gets a 500k medical bill....the "personal responsibility" argument, if applied here, would mean that they are now contractually obligated to pay that money, with interest. If they are deemed unable, as most would be, the "responsible" thing to do would be to liquidate all of their assets, as well as the family's assets. Whatever is left would be garnished from wages, for as long as it takes, by whatever kin they had. If that means your great grandkids are paying for your 1.5 mil end of life care 40 years later, so be it. You should have done the responsible thing and killed yourself as to not burden them.These are the laws we assign to all other commodities and assets/loans. Why should your death be any different? ....the reality is that caring for our sick REQUIRES us working together, allocating costs into pools, insurance, etc. This is not a reason for the ACA to exist, as it is a terrible, usurious law, but it is a reason why most of its opponents are totally idealistic and clueless.

                        -- The ACA is not socialistic at all. It is a law that mandates that one purchase something from a PRIVATE company, or face government penalty. That is fascism. Big difference. It was originally a republican idea from the 90's, the individual mandate. The entire law was written by pharma, insurers, and hospital networks. It is a corporatist masterpiece.

                        Overall, my main problem with bashing Obamacare is that these same people often have no better ideas. I am opposed to the idea that a country should be basing 1/5 of its economy on making money from sick people. That is an immoral, repugnant idea. For me, any system that does not take this on fundamentally will not work, period.

                        One could get millions of horror stories from people that have gone bankrupt, seen family members die due to not affording care, or the other terrible sides to having a "sickness for profit" system in place. That is the problem. The current law or the previous ones are only re-arranging deck chairs. I did not become a physician to make money, but to help people. Make med school free (as it is in many other places, and was here for decades), make it so we aren't paying 300k in loans back, and then set salary rates that are big enough to keep it as incentive.

                        With our salaries taken care of, we could then target the true con-men and beneficiaries of Obamacare: insurers (30 million new customers by LAW! HOLY hell, thank you!), private hospital networks, and pharma. They wrote it themselves, for themselves.

                        Just saying, "personal responsibility" is a fantasy in healthcare. There are good solutions, but that sure as hell isn't one of them.
                        I couldn't agree more! Well said! They should have "like" buttons here.
                        As far as Obamacare and Obama, I think he is just a puppet in the hands of bigger players like insurers and pharma.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                          Maybe were you live that is the vibe. I don't know. Seems quite the opposite around me.... Not that I agree either way, but round here seems like most are blaming the Tea Party for throwing a temper tantrum at the last minute and shutting down the government when they could not get their way legally.
                          NeckHammer,
                          You are entitled to you opinion, even if it is dead wrong. Here are the facts:
                          Eight House Republicans were appointed to negotiate a budget deal with Senate Democrats today and actually sat at a table to await some senators.
                          When no one showed up, the Republicans said it was an example of the Senate Dems’ refusal to negotiate to reach a deal.
                          House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, joining seven other conferees appointed earlier this morning by House Speaker John Boehner, said “there is a way” for Republicans and Democrats “to work through our differences” but complained that Democrats have refused to negotiate.
                          Do you see the empty seats in the photo in this link?
                          House Republicans Wait at a Table for Dems to Negotiate Budget - ABC News

                          The fact is that republicans have made every attempt to negotiate but the Progressives refused on every count. The battle over the budget will renew again after the first of the year. Obama DEMANDS unlimited debt. He even says that raising the debt ceiling does not raise debt ! The national debt has gone up more with Obama than any president in HISTORY !
                          Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase Our Debt,' Though It Has 'Over 100 Times' | CNS News
                          Bwahahaha - Mwahahaha DUH !
                          Obama was the laughing stock even saying this on the Tonight Show.

                          Grizz
                          Last edited by Grizz; 10-27-2013, 02:00 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Zb Acupuncture Studio View Post
                            I couldn't agree more! Well said! They should have "like" buttons here.
                            As far as Obamacare and Obama, I think he is just a puppet in the hands of bigger players like insurers and pharma.
                            ZB,
                            I agree with you. However the CRUX of the problem is SKYROCKING health care costs, and Obamacare will just make it WORSE, the more money that is poured into the healthcare BLACK HOLE, the more that will disappear.

                            The cause of rocketing healthcare should be addressed. I have proven examples that could be done to drastically reduce health care costs: The Dr. Brownstein Iodine Supplement Protocol prevents surgery & expensive drugs for most of the following disease:
                            * Fibrocystic Breast Disease
                            * Ovary Cysts
                            * Prostate Problems
                            * Uterus Problems
                            * Thyroid Problems
                            * Many related cancers
                            YES! Even cancers have been proven to be cured with iodine. See "Cancer" in the links below.
                            Examples & documentation of my claims:
                            http://tinyurl.com/Iodine-Reading
                            http://tinyurl.com/iodine-testimonials

                            In addition there are many other disease that can be treated with diet, vitamins & minerals and without expensive surgeries + expensive drugs. Prime example is the treatment for Multiple Sclerosis and all related Autoimmune Disease:
                            Minding Your Mitochondria: Dr. Terry Wahls at TEDxIowaCity - YouTube

                            Pouring even MORE money into this BLACK HOLE is not the answer.
                            Grizz
                            Last edited by Grizz; 10-27-2013, 01:56 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                              @ Grizz.....I will try this one more time. Again, there are 2 questions, only 2.

                              You keep on putting things up about the Constitution, and Obama's supposed distaste for it. So I pose this:
                              1) What was the last Presidential administration that followed the Constitution at all, in your view?

                              Obamacare's main transgression, the individual mandate, began in the early 90's as a Republican platform idea....this leads to
                              2) What policies has Obama STARTED that are of significance, that have no precedence in history?

                              Please understand that I spent about 300 hours volunteering to unseat Obama in 2012, and did not vote for him of course in either election.

                              My point is that the right has a made-up version of Obama, that he is some kind of radical....he isn't. He is another representation of how we do things, and how we have done them for a very long time. In short, Obama is how we roll. He is how we have rolled since about 1980....he is a corporatist technocrat, in the mold of Reagan and Clinton.

                              There is all of this talk about fearing we will get a one-party system. I have news; we are already there....we have ONE party, with two wings. The objective is to create the illusion of actual differences, in order to get people like Grizz and the left-wing crazies to hate each other. I can go on Democratic Underground and see legion of left-oriented Grizz characters. The will post vids and sources from MSNBC and Huffington Post, while Grizz picks Fox or Drudge Report....my reply to both sides is the same. It is all very useful anger for the powerful, as it maintains the illusion that all one side needs to do is eliminate the other....anything to keep the eyes off of the actual people behind the curtain.

                              Please answer those 2 questions. I am very curious as to your viewpoint.
                              I have to say I agree with this (not where it's pointed at Grizz, but the meat of these points). We have not been a constitutional nation really in 100 years or so. I was raised/taught to be conservative in every facet of life. These days, I'm very much hardcore Libertarian, which sometimes conflicts with being Christian. I believe very much in fiscal conservatism and very much in more socially Libertarian values. I see the monstrosity that combines both of our major political parties into one and it makes me sick. We are no longer a nation of choice. The Republican party completely lost me after passing the Patriot Act and at no point in my life will I ever buy into Liberal philosophy. I view economics through the lens of the Austrian viewpoint because I'm arguably a deep thinking simpleton.

                              Obamacare will be a complete quagmire much like Medicaid and Medicare, WIC, Foodstamps and every other government entitlement program. We are well on our way to a single payer system, which IS the entire point of the Affordable Healthcare Act. It's here to stay, period, and 20 years from now it will be viewed just like the rest of our entitlement programs. Medicaid/care were not particularly popular in the beginning either.

                              Sitting on my desk is my packet from BCBS about changes to my coverage. I have yet to open it because I've been in a good mood lately and I don't want to ruin it. I have been on the same plan since about 2007 and I pay for 100% of my coverage because I have either been self-employed or worked for small businesses the majority of my working time over the past 6 years. After the ACA passed, BCBS was courteous enough to give us all fair warning and ample time to deal with healthcare cost increases. They raised our rates slowly and steadily. I'm 33 and in excellent health. Despite this, I've watched my premiums go from $70/month to $172/month. That's HUGE. The best I've been able to calculate is that similar coverage (I pay 20%) will be to the tune of $320/month.

                              That's a 357% increase in cost. That's NOT affordable. If the penalty is $325 per person, then essentially we are all forced to participate in the system. That is, in fact, fascism. The very premise of the ACA is flawed. The message being taught to future healthcare professionals (and I know this because I'm engaged to a Nurse Practitioner working on a Masters in Public Health) is that requiring insurances = more people insured = more people getting preventative screenings = more people not being as sick.

                              What a load of hogwash. I rarely go to the doctor as it is. My premiums are expensive enough so unless I'm REALLY sick, I save the $40 copay + cost of labs + prescription costs and man up. Doubling my rates makes me even less likely to go because it's REALLY not in the budget and it's tough enough to budget for everything since I'm on a variable income. I really think we're going to see a lot of co-ops start up and I for one will be the first to join if the time comes were my future wife's insurance starts to suck or if she changes jobs and moves to a situation where the health coverage sucks.

                              Man up, get used to it, because it's hear to stay. Personally, I'm becoming a fan of the idea of hitting a big reset button.

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                              • contradictions/obstacles to free market property

                                Curious where you stand on this idea. Other libertarians/an-caps evidently hate me for having it.
                                "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                                Jack london, "Before Adam"

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