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  • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Keep expecting politicians to be able to solve the world's problems. I'm sure one of them will eventually figure it out.
    Exactly. It's funny how we blame them, but yet we keep voting them back in. The finger should be pointed at ourselves.

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    • Originally posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
      Exactly. It's funny how we blame them, but yet we keep voting them back in. The finger should be pointed at ourselves.
      My point was waiting around for the government to fix anything is like waiting for the cable guy to actually show up between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m., except the cable guy will actually show up eventually. It doesn't matter who you vote for, because the system is designed to fail, and you can't make a success of a system that's designed to fail by building it out of better parts.
      Last edited by RichMahogany; 10-16-2013, 06:19 AM.
      The Champagne of Beards

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      • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
        For me, the most instructive thing about this outrageously long thread and the constant tin-foil hat stuff from Grizz is exactly why this guy is still the President.....

        Let me put this bluntly:
        The Republicans will not win another national election in 2016, 2018, or 2020. They have allowed rabid crazies to say whatever they want with impunity, and to allow these voices to be THE ENTIRE VOICE OF OPPOSITION to the Democrats....seeing as most people find these people and their views to be repulsive, ...
        Interesting story of your experience and a lot of people need to hear "police your own". But it could have been summed up simply as the usual voting experience of Voting for the Lesser of Evils.

        Liberals appear to have the same challenge. Reflected in their silent majority; those who don't bother to vote out of fear of being labeled radical-lab-blowing-up-lefties.

        And hey GRIZZ (maybe you are here, not working on the ol' house). Explain please, how exactly should anyone in this county interpret the sleazy, cheap, underhanded trick the Repubs pulled with House Resolution 368? Lets see, "Where any member of the House previously could have brought the clean resolution to the floor under House Rule 22, House Resolution 368 -- passed on the eve of the shutdown -- gave that right exclusively to the House majority leader, Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia."

        Was this to keep Boehner under control? Was this stupid, nihilistic choice even thought out?! So, Cantor gets in a car accident and then NO ONE can propose a clean resolution is voted on? Interesting. Sounds like a Cantor was crowned Oligarch.
        Last edited by spk; 10-16-2013, 04:59 PM.

        “you aren't what you eat - you are what you don't poop.” Wavy Gravy

        Today I am Fillyjonk. Tommorow I will be Snufkin.

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        • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
          I am a physician, so I figure I have something worse contributing here....

          -- "Personal responsibility" is not a realistic argument in regards to healthcare, for as much as I propagate it in other things. Someone can be responsible all day long, but when they get hit by a bus or have a massive heart attack, the time and costs associated cannot be handled by one person, or family. Everyone is all about being responsible, until their family member gets a 500k medical bill....the "personal responsibility" argument, if applied here, would mean that they are now contractually obligated to pay that money, with interest. If they are deemed unable, as most would be, the "responsible" thing to do would be to liquidate all of their assets, as well as the family's assets. Whatever is left would be garnished from wages, for as long as it takes, by whatever kin they had. If that means your great grandkids are paying for your 1.5 mil end of life care 40 years later, so be it. You should have done the responsible thing and killed yourself as to not burden them.These are the laws we assign to all other commodities and assets/loans. Why should your death be any different? ....the reality is that caring for our sick REQUIRES us working together, allocating costs into pools, insurance, etc. This is not a reason for the ACA to exist, as it is a terrible, usurious law, but it is a reason why most of its opponents are totally idealistic and clueless.

          -- The ACA is not socialistic at all. It is a law that mandates that one purchase something from a PRIVATE company, or face government penalty. That is fascism. Big difference. It was originally a republican idea from the 90's, the individual mandate. The entire law was written by pharma, insurers, and hospital networks. It is a corporatist masterpiece.

          Overall, my main problem with bashing Obamacare is that these same people often have no better ideas. I am opposed to the idea that a country should be basing 1/5 of its economy on making money from sick people. That is an immoral, repugnant idea. For me, any system that does not take this on fundamentally will not work, period.

          One could get millions of horror stories from people that have gone bankrupt, seen family members die due to not affording care, or the other terrible sides to having a "sickness for profit" system in place. That is the problem. The current law or the previous ones are only re-arranging deck chairs. I did not become a physician to make money, but to help people. Make med school free (as it is in many other places, and was here for decades), make it so we aren't paying 300k in loans back, and then set salary rates that are big enough to keep it as incentive.

          With our salaries taken care of, we could then target the true con-men and beneficiaries of Obamacare: insurers (30 million new customers by LAW! HOLY hell, thank you!), private hospital networks, and pharma. They wrote it themselves, for themselves.

          Just saying, "personal responsibility" is a fantasy in healthcare. There are good solutions, but that sure as hell isn't one of them.
          Fascism is a form of socialism
          Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
          Starting Weight: 294 pounds
          Current Weight: 235 pounds
          Goal Weight: 195 pounds

          Comment


          • Originally posted by canio6 View Post
            ^This. I am so tired of our gov't half assing everything.
            The penalty for compromise
            Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
            Starting Weight: 294 pounds
            Current Weight: 235 pounds
            Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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            • @ kenn

              Fascism is when the government and the corporate interests are gelled, so that the government exists to carry out their whims, rather than actually serve the people....this is why it was referred to as "national socialism" by the WWII era dictators.

              Democratic socialism, as practiced in Scandinavia, and to a lesser degree in Australia or NZ (this is using a strictly American definition, which essentially means anything left of an American democrat) is built differently. There are usually very strict limits on corporate power, with a more expensive safety net.

              I am not in favor of either, but these are only similar in theoretical comparison....I would like to think most Europeans, those that had their countries invaded and destroyed by Fascism, would take quite offense in claiming their democratic socialistic system was a "type" of fascism. One puts growth and industrialists as kings of the world (I.E. the famous Oskar Shindler was not even a political man. He was rich though, and that is all the power required), while the systems that replaced them in Europe put strict barriers on such direct oligarchy.

              I.E.
              Gov forces you to buy their product, which they will disproportionally price on the wealthy = socialism
              Gov forces you to buy from a PRIVATE company that they allowed huge influence into writing the law you must now follow = fascism
              "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                @ kenn

                Fascism is when the government and the corporate interests are gelled, so that the government exists to carry out their whims, rather than actually serve the people....this is why it was referred to as "national socialism" by the WWII era dictators.

                Democratic socialism, as practiced in Scandinavia, and to a lesser degree in Australia or NZ (this is using a strictly American definition, which essentially means anything left of an American democrat) is built differently. There are usually very strict limits on corporate power, with a more expensive safety net.

                I am not in favor of either, but these are only similar in theoretical comparison....I would like to think most Europeans, those that had their countries invaded and destroyed by Fascism, would take quite offense in claiming their democratic socialistic system was a "type" of fascism. One puts growth and industrialists as kings of the world (I.E. the famous Oskar Shindler was not even a political man. He was rich though, and that is all the power required), while the systems that replaced them in Europe put strict barriers on such direct oligarchy.

                I.E.
                Gov forces you to buy their product, which they will disproportionally price on the wealthy = socialism
                Gov forces you to buy from a PRIVATE company that they allowed huge influence into writing the law you must now follow = fascism
                I said facsism is a form of socialism.
                Last edited by kenn; 10-16-2013, 06:38 PM.
                Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                Current Weight: 235 pounds
                Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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                • So what's the news in the states?

                  Did they do the inevitable and increase the debt limit yet?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                    Fascism is when the government and the corporate interests are gelled, so that the government exists to carry out their whims, rather than actually serve the people....
                    That's Amerika.

                    Comment


                    • How can people get tickets for being in parks if the government is shut down?
                      Crohn's, doing SCD

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                      • Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                        So what's the news in the states?

                        Did they do the inevitable and increase the debt limit yet?
                        Yep, but they only raised it until Feb. And the budget is set until January. So we can go through the whole dog and pony show again in just a couple of months.

                        All these jackholes made a fortune in donations to their campaign funds during all this, so they are laughing all the way to the bank.


                        I guess the whole "there's no such thing as bad publicity" is working out for the crooks who run our government.
                        Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                        http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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                        • Originally posted by jammies View Post
                          Yep, but they only raised it until Feb. And the budget is set until January. So we can go through the whole dog and pony show again in just a couple of months.
                          Excellent!

                          What cracks me up is the attention deficit disorder of the American people. They get played, and played again, and every time it's like the first time!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jammies View Post
                            Yep, but they only raised it until Feb. And the budget is set until January. So we can go through the whole dog and pony show again in just a couple of months.

                            All these jackholes made a fortune in donations to their campaign funds during all this, so they are laughing all the way to the bank.


                            I guess the whole "there's no such thing as bad publicity" is working out for the crooks who run our government.
                            We did it last spring, too. That'll be the MO for now on, I suppose. Bump it down the road a few months to have something to mudsling about.

                            M.

                            Comment


                            • Peter Schiff is always great, straight economics 101...

                              U.S. Is Broke, Can't Afford to Raise the Debt Ceiling - YouTube

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                              • I recently had a conversation about the debt ceiling with my dad. We were watching BBC world news and some idiot was going on about how the US not raising the debt ceiling would harm the third world. And my dad works for the Canadian banks so his opinion might have meaning.

                                Me: So basically they want the US to borrow money from China so they can buy more shit from China? Is this like some kind of mass delusion? What the hell?

                                Dad: Pretty much. They won't be able to keep it up for much longer though. About two years.

                                Me: Two... years...? I'd hoped this house of cards wouldn't fall in until after I was dead!

                                Dad: Nah, I'd give them two years, three max. Then they'll figure something out. The States are good at figuring things out when they HAVE to. Until they HAVE to, they do what's easy.

                                Me: ...I'm scared! D: They're our biggest trading partner! I really hoped this would happen after I was gone!

                                Dad: Well, you could still get hit by a bus or something.

                                Me: Screw you.
                                Out of context quote for the day:

                                Clearly Gorbag is so awesome he should be cloned, reproducing in the normal manner would only dilute his awesomeness. - Urban Forager

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