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  • Originally posted by JWBooth View Post
    One nice thing about this thread is that despite the political differences, pretty much everybody agrees with the idea of offering bounties for sterilization.
    I don't. But I'm all for making it cheap and easily available.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by quikky View Post
      Healthy skepticism is always good. However, you surely accept certain things as true, based not on existence of proof, but based on sufficient evidence to suggest it so. For example, has your diet been proven? Probably not. However, you've gathered enough evidence, to accept it as true, at least for the time being.

      My question is, do you believe the evidence for the Holocaust is insufficient for you to accept it as true, not excluding the possibility of some healthy skepticism remaining on your part?
      There are certain aspects that I do accept, and others I don't, based on, yes, insufficient evidence and "exposed" lies. The skepticism shall remain until proven otherwise, if it should happen.

      Whoa, whoa....that was most certainly NOT me laying out either a rant or explaining a position. That was a joke. These are used for laughter, and I felt it may be useful to inject an outrageous stereotype into a discussion with Hitler, Zionism, Glenn Beck, and healthcare all involved. It is an intentionally childish caricature. Most jokes are.

      I think that the most conformist tendency of all is to always try to box someone else up. In other words, to assume that because they are saying A and B, they must be in this group over here....that is why following what I believe, in all but people that are close to me, is hard to pin down. As soon as I lay out one position, 15 assumptions are made about what else I believe....I am sure most people are familiar with this happening to them.

      For me in my personal life, I am best-described I think as a "tribalist". I disagree with people far away, with different experiences, heritage, customs, and culture being able to dictate to others far away. There are always 2 questions though, and I have 2 different answers: 1) What would you like if you could have everything start over again? vs 2) What do you think should be done now that we are light years away from that? My tribalist ideal is the answer to the first question....I think that we will end up back that way eventually anyway. It will likely be a very long time from now, but that is our natural way. We have just been on a 2 millenia sidetrack that will end some day.

      In regards to what I feel now, I do not place that much emphasis on the present situation. I think that we completely lost our way, in regards to what we were founded as, when the Industrial Revolution hit. In my opinion, the government sold its soul when those opportunities to "modernize" presented themselves, and we have never fully recovered.

      I think it is lost on most people that about 90% of the reason that the US has the status it has is due to WWII, and its immediate aftermath....we saw all of our competitors devastated, financed and supplied a bulk of the war effort, and got Bretton Woods written for us toward its end. This allowed us to get crazy with monetary policy without immediate consequences, and has allowed ALL worldwide commodities to be sold in OUR currency. That is a very underrated tool of economic force.

      Starting in about the 70's though, our competitors came back, and we have been squandering our huge luck ever since. Seeing new routes of money to be made overseas, "free market" economic policies were chosen as the best way to keep our status as temporary superpower, over protecting ourselves and our industries.....the result, decades later, is very predictable. These same companies now have infiltrated the government almost entirely. I have been in on healthcare discussions in both Florida and Georgia, in matters pertaining to medical formulary in these states. It is 100% about money and influence. I have seen it with my own eyes. The people are not considered to any degree.

      So for me, Obamacare is a very minor thing in the grand scheme of things. The president is an unabashed corporatist, in the model of Clinton and Reagan. There are not 2 parties. There is one party with 2 wings. The core assumptions are never questioned. The healthcare law is just another in a long string of laws, essentially EVERY law since about 1970, that was written by and for the benefit of large corporations. NAFTA, Medicare Part D, CAFTA, TARP, Auto bailout, HMO's under Nixon, S&L crises under Reagan, Dot-com bubble under Clinton and its legislative aftermath, Housing bill under Bush W....Obamacare....

      All of them were written in the same method as those medical debates I saw in FL. The people do not have a seat at the table anymore. The selling of our soul is totally complete....and yes, that is a very unpopular stance to take: telling people not only that their opinions are wrong, but they are irrelevant and wrong.

      Now, even parts of our national heritage, such as the Gadsden flag, have been bought up like a commodity by the orchestrators of the tea party, primarily the Koch brothers. Now even calling myself a "patriot" is a coined term....the left is scarcely better, with a mentality that has become even MORE statist (the opposite of tribalism, in my view) than anyone else. The state can kill people in other countries without trial, even Americans. Your phone can be tapped without hearing. We can invade whole countries without Congressional approval or international agreement. It is all tyrannical, whether that tyrant is a corporation or a government. I make no distinction, whereas most will nearly always defend over-reach by one or the other.

      It's like this, from the man:
      “The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you are emotionally detached from it. I have always viewed it from a safe distance, knowing I don't belong; it doesn't include me, and it never has. No matter how you care to define it, I do not identify with the local group. Planet, species, race, nation, state, religion, party, union, club, association, neighborhood improvement committee; I have no interest in any of it. I love and treasure individuals as I meet them, I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to.”

      Sums it up better than I ever could
      Well, seeing this, it's clear you weren't malicious in your intents, so I'll apologize. I admire the rest of your post and find myself agreeing with it -- as I like to think of myself as a tribal anarchist personally. I'm actually going to attempt doing something similar to your lifestyle soon. Out of sight, out of mind.

      I don't think we're that different, maybe just both really passionate debaters. I respect that though.
      Make America Great Again

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Egerland View Post
        If you think "everybody" agrees with bounties for sterilization, you need to find some new friends.

        Eugenics? Accept that and you end up with a "master race" and "them.".
        Umm think you read it wrong. Offering people cash for sterilisation or even just the procedure for free isn't the same as eugenics. It was being talked about as being offered equally to everyone.

        Comment


        • Even if they had hired the "best" companies out there to build their website, how many of these best company websites have also crashed from too much demand? Yeah, just about every last one of them.

          Seems to me this whole thing is a sign of pent-up demand. A lot of people want to quit their crappy jobs and start their own companies and find a little security in their lives against calamitous health emergencies.
          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
            I'm not for any political party, fyi, but I've come to dislike democrats and lefties by far more than anyone else.
            so then Jesse Ventura is your guy, right?

            jesse-ventura-6.jpg

            just kidding i know you don't vote

            “you aren't what you eat - you are what you don't poop.” Wavy Gravy

            Today I am Fillyjonk. Tommorow I will be Snufkin.

            Comment


            • Power Mad Obama Offers Two Choices: Unconditional Surrender Or Default

              Barack Obama is warning that if he does not geteverything that he wants that he will force the U.S. government into a devastating debt default which will cripple the entire global economy. In essence, Obama has become so power mad that he is actually willing to take the entire planet hostage in order to achieve his goals. A lot of people are blaming the government shutdown on the Republicans, but they have already voted to fund the entire government except for Obamacare. The U.S. Constitution requires that all spending bills originate in the House of Representatives, and the House did their duty by passing a spending bill. If the Senate or the President do not like the bill that the House has passed, then negotiations need to take place. That is how our system works. And the weak-kneed Republicans have already indicated that they are willing to give up virtually all of their prior demands. In fact, if Obama offered all of them 20 dollar gift certificates to Denny’s to end this crisis they would probably jump at that deal.

              But that is not good enough for Obama. He has made it clear that he will settle for nothing less than the complete and unconditional surrender of the Republican Party.
              Why is Obama doing this? Why is Obama willing to bring the country to the brink of financial disaster?

              The answers at Power Mad Obama Offers Two Choices: Unconditional Surrender Or Default | InvestmentWatch

              This is all about a political victory and crushing the Republicans. Obama doesn’t really care how long this crisis lasts because he believes that he is WINNING and getting the end result that he wants. According to Obama, the Republican Party is just supposed to roll over and give him the exact spending bill that he wants and also give him another trillion dollar increase in the debt limit.

              If the Republicans do not give him that, he is willing to plunge us into financial oblivion, and blame it all on the republicans.

              Grizz
              Last edited by Grizz; 10-10-2013, 03:23 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                Power Mad Obama Offers Two Choices: Unconditional Surrender Or Default

                Barack Obama is warning that if he does not geteverything that he wants that he will force the U.S. government into a devastating debt default which will cripple the entire global economy. In essence, Obama has become so power mad that he is actually willing to take the entire planet hostage in order to achieve his goals. A lot of people are blaming the government shutdown on the Republicans, but they have already voted to fund the entire government except for Obamacare. The U.S. Constitution requires that all spending bills originate in the House of Representatives, and the House did their duty by passing a spending bill. If the Senate or the President do not like the bill that the House has passed, then negotiations need to take place. That is how our system works. And the weak-kneed Republicans have already indicated that they are willing to give up virtually all of their prior demands. In fact, if Obama offered all of them 20 dollar gift certificates to Denny’s to end this crisis they would probably jump at that deal.

                But that is not good enough for Obama. He has made it clear that he will settle for nothing less than the complete and unconditional surrender of the Republican Party.
                Why is Obama doing this? Why is Obama willing to bring the country to the brink of financial disaster?

                The answers at Power Mad Obama Offers Two Choices: Unconditional Surrender Or Default | InvestmentWatch

                This is all about a political victory and crushing the Republicans. Obama doesn’t really care how long this crisis lasts because he believes that he is WINNING and getting the end result that he wants. According to Obama, the Republican Party is just supposed to roll over and give him the exact spending bill that he wants and also give him another trillion dollar increase in the debt limit.

                If the Republicans do not give him that, he is willing to plunge us into financial oblivion, and blame it all on the republicans.

                Grizz
                What an idiot - I mean the person who wrote that article...
                Federal taxation and spending by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                nteresting to see that the democrats are overwhelmingly funding the republicans since it seems to be the republicans who are against any form of state help eg obamacare....

                Comment


                • I think US politics are the best example of when democracy fails. It just seems as if anything the opposition does is wrong and un American.
                  http://lifemutt.blogspot.sg/ - Gaming, Food Reviews and Life in Singapore

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by AMonkey View Post
                    I think US politics are the best example of when democracy fails. It just seems as if anything the opposition does is wrong and un American.
                    The US was not setup as a democracy, it was setup as a Constitutional Republic. A democracy is little more than "mob rule" where 51% of the voters can rule over the remaining 49%.

                    But I'm afraid our Constitution and Bill of Rights have become nothing more than historical documents with little relevance. Case in point and the illegal and immoral wars that the US has started or became involved with that were not declared as per the Constitution.

                    The thing that pisses me off about Obamacare and people's reaction to it is that it is the logical step in a series of entitlement programs that spans over decades and have been supported by both parties along with the voters.

                    Taking money from one person and giving to another through various services is theft. Wearing a ski mask or wearing a suit, the thief is doing the same thing, taking money that you have worked hard for.
                    Randal
                    AKA: Texas Grok

                    Originally posted by texas.grok
                    Facebook is to intelligence what a black hole is to light
                    http://hardcoremind.com/

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by texas.grok View Post
                      The US was not setup as a democracy, it was setup as a Constitutional Republic. A democracy is little more than "mob rule" where 51% of the voters can rule over the remaining 49%.

                      But I'm afraid our Constitution and Bill of Rights have become nothing more than historical documents with little relevance. Case in point and the illegal and immoral wars that the US has started or became involved with that were not declared as per the Constitution.

                      The thing that pisses me off about Obamacare and people's reaction to it is that it is the logical step in a series of entitlement programs that spans over decades and have been supported by both parties along with the voters.

                      Taking money from one person and giving to another through various services is theft. Wearing a ski mask or wearing a suit, the thief is doing the same thing, taking money that you have worked hard for.
                      Thank you for your message.

                      What is happening now is Obummer is fighting to the DEATH for Socialism USA & killing the Constitution.

                      Republicans are fighting to the DEATH against socialism and for the Constitution.

                      Victor takes all in this battle, and we hope that our constitutional government wins. Socialism has never worked in any other country, and it won't work here in the USA. Unfortunately, the Liberal News Media Propaganda is supporting Obama.

                      We are at a turning point and History is being made, and this political war could become bloody,
                      Grizz

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                        Thank you for your message.

                        What is happening now is Obummer is fighting to the DEATH for Socialism USA & killing the Constitution.

                        Republicans are fighting to the DEATH against socialism and for the Constitution.

                        Victor takes all in this battle, and we hope that our constitutional government wins. Socialism has never worked in any other country, and it won't work here in the USA. Unfortunately, the Liberal News Media Propaganda is supporting Obama.

                        We are at a turning point and History is being made, and this political war could become bloody,
                        Grizz
                        With all due respect, if you think the Constitution has been followed in the past 150 years, you need to do some more research. Republicans are fighting for THEIR set of corporate backers; namely large multi-nationals that get hurt by mandatory healthcare coverage, banks, and the ultra-wealthy 100, like the Koch brothers or Adelson.

                        The Democrats are fighting very hard for THEIR set of corporate backers, who wrote the law they are defending. In their case, it is Big Pharma, the private hospital lobby, tort lawyers with their huge firms, and medical equipment companies.

                        If you think high-minded stuff about "freedom" or the "Constitution" are being involved in either sides calculus here, I have a bridge to sell you in San Francisco.
                        "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

                        Comment


                        • I'm a fascist. Not because I'm some great subscriber to the writings of some fascist author or because I think it's the best thing ever. I'm a fascist because I willingly support the Government-Industrial war machine as a cog in one of it's many projects. I do nothing to work against it, and in fact do my job fairly well and subsequently do much to support it. For money.

                          People should always be judged by what they do, and not what they say.

                          M.

                          Comment


                          • O'Bummer wants a NEW constitution.

                            The Obama Administration has proposed replacing the current U.S. Constitution (4,543 words, including the signatures with a 2,300-page “new Constitution” that in the words of an administration spokesperson, “clears up the gray areas in the current Constitution.”

                            The proposal was launched after the success of two recent 1,000+ page pieces of legislation, the Affordable Care Act and the Dodd-Frank financial reform act.

                            An additional 200+ pages of the “new Constitution” are redacted due to the sensitive nature of the National Security-related amendments.

                            Read more at Obama Administration Proposes 2,300-Page “New Constitution” | InvestmentWatch

                            Bottom line: O'Bummer's New Communist Constitution

                            Grizz

                            Comment


                            • With all due respect, if you think the Constitution has been followed in the past 150 years, you need to do some more research. Republicans are fighting for THEIR set of corporate backers; namely large multi-nationals that get hurt by mandatory healthcare coverage, banks, and the ultra-wealthy 100, like the Koch brothers or Adelson.

                              The Democrats are fighting very hard for THEIR set of corporate backers, who wrote the law they are defending. In their case, it is Big Pharma, the private hospital lobby, tort lawyers with their huge firms, and medical equipment companies.
                              If I was wealthy and had a ton of cash, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE the government to default and tank the economy for a week or two. Crash the stock market...buy low. I might even try to make a land grab/real estate grab.

                              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                                O'Bummer wants a NEW constitution.

                                The Obama Administration has proposed replacing the current U.S. Constitution (4,543 words, including the signatures with a 2,300-page “new Constitution” that in the words of an administration spokesperson, “clears up the gray areas in the current Constitution.”

                                The proposal was launched after the success of two recent 1,000+ page pieces of legislation, the Affordable Care Act and the Dodd-Frank financial reform act.

                                An additional 200+ pages of the “new Constitution” are redacted due to the sensitive nature of the National Security-related amendments.

                                Read more at Obama Administration Proposes 2,300-Page “New Constitution” | InvestmentWatch

                                Bottom line: O'Bummer's New Communist Constitution

                                Grizz
                                Dude, stop sensationalizing everything. There is 0 source or credibility to what you just posted.
                                Depression Lies

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