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  • Banks torpedo the economy with their toxic junk, robbing the wealth of millions and sending millions more into unemployment and we get all hot and bothered about food stamps. A sucker born every minute.

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    • Ugh....so it looks like I am going to do this again. I have written one derivation of this or another for many years in some of the political forums I post in, so I could probably do this one asleep anymore.

      1) The reason one cannot invoke Hitler or Mussolini into any discussion like this is that all serious historians have essentially agreed that it is false and ahistorical to discuss any of these people OUTSIDE of the context of nationalistic or racial superiority contexts....in other words, speaking about them in purely economic or ideological terms is an impossible representation of their views and policies. Hitler and The Duke were what they were not because of their views on redistributing money or about even the role of the state; these ideas were NOT invented by them, and have numerous examples throughout older and modern history of their use. These men are infamous monsters because of their sickening views on racial superiority, rebuilding of ancient empire, and creating "living space" (Hitler's words) for their people at any cost......Hitler was a NAZI, a caustic hater of jews, long before he was anything else. Any discussion of him, Mussolini and his brown-shirt visions of a rebuilt Roman empire, or Stalin's "state as a religion" mass murder of his own people, is a fools discussion without including these as the core of who they were and what they wanted....there is no modern parallel, outside of perhaps Cambodia or Maoist China. That is not my opinion. That is any educated historian's opinion.

      2) The US is VERY far from communism, as this is the elimination of private property through a statist regime....it is much closer to fascism politically, and these 2 systems are mortal enemies of one another. (Hitler wrote this out in his justification for Operation Barbarosa, mixed in with the other 80% which concerned racial superiority) Mussolini coined the fascism term, preferring instead though the Italian word for "Corporatist", as fascism is the merger of state and corporate interests.

      The US and Russia, per Putin's comments about socialism, are both corporatist oligarchies. What this means is that large capital runs both countries, and chooses both legislators and bureaucrats to protect their investments. This is what Obamacare was....not socialism, in which central planning and governmental control of the means of production are employed, but corporatism....it MANDATED by law that I buy a product from a PRIVATE company with stockholders. If that is anyone's definition of socialism or communism (abolishment of all private properyy), I suggest they read something once in awhile that Glenn Beck didn't write. Obama is a corporatist technocrat, Putin a tyrannical oligarch. They have much common ground.

      3) The most powerful tool of the powerful, throughout history, is the ability to create "in-group vs out-group". Propaganda is the means to accomplish it, of which the US is very good at.....the idea is to create a group that are the "real Americans/Germans/Russians", and to be able to justify any such hatred toward the "fake __________". In this regard, the American right today has a much greater tendency toward doing this. (It hasn't always. The early 1900's version of "progressive" were vitriolic bigoted goons. Woodrow Wilson was a fervent white supremacist) There is a hyper-patriotic, intolerant streak to a lot of the discourse over everything political ever since he got elected, and that is very disturbing in itself.....and no, I did not vote for him. I ran a field office in Enfield, NH for Ron Paul in 2012

      I dislike any use of racially motivated monsters that systemically murdered millions of people like cattle to be an equivalency to a democratically elected President passing a stupid, corporatist law. That is ahistorical and usually means someone has run out of ideas.
      "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

      Comment


      • Magnolia, I just found an article that opines why people are against welfare. It's an older article, so some of the dollar amounts may have changed a bit. The four biggest lies told about welfare reform

        Myth #1: Welfare benefits go to minority women who never leave the dole.

        THE FACT IS, MORE WHITES RECEIVE aid than blacks or Hispanics. Two out of three welfare recipients are children, not adults. And contrary to the stereotype of families forever dependent, nearly three out of four women receiving aid get off welfare within two years.
        Myth #2: Welfare encourages teen pregnancy and large, dependent families.

        "In Illinois you get $37 [a month] when you have another baby," says Vanessa, (not her real name), 16.
        Myth #3: People on welfare live pretty well. - The dollar amounts in this section are old, but total welfare benefits in all states leave people well below poverty. So not to worry about the mythical Cadillac driving welfare recipient (which was not only wrong, but racist).

        Myth #4: Welfare is a huge drain on the federal budget.

        And yet welfare payments affect only 1 percent of the federal budget.
        As a note, the only person I ever knew who was childless and applied for welfare because he'd been hit by a car and could no longer work had to wait so long to get housing that he literally ended up in one of the tent communities under a bridge. Fortunately, we have mild winters here. IOW, you don't just walk in and get a check with which to party. Welfare sucks as it should.

        Also, I didn't check the above article for accuracy, but it jives with what I've read in different sources in the past. If anything is blatantly incorrect, I apologize.

        Yes, it's a bitch to work full time and see your wages flat line for three decades. But the working class is much closer to welfare recipients in the eyes of the 1% that controls this country. They know that dividing people so that the almost poor hate the really poor just increases their power. Just where do we put all the children if we unceremoniously ditch welfare? Do we put their parents in prison* - housing a prisoner is more expensive than welfare payments. Do we go back to orphanages? See below for cost of housing a prisoner; it would probably cost almost as much to house orphans.

        From here: California Criminal Justice FAQ: How much does it cost to incarcerate an inmate? - it costs CA approximately $47,000/yr to house an inmate. A $1200/month apt or house even free to a family (and I don't think HUD housing is ever totally free) costs $14,400/year.

        Anyway, I'm pro-welfare because I'm pro-feeding-children and because I believe it's one of the cheaper alternatives to just throwing the poor out on to the streets or warehousing poor children. And I'd love to see incentives for people to have fewer children. Sterilization for junkies would be cheap - enough cash to get their next fix would probably do it. Sorry if that sounds cold.
        "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

        B*tch-lite

        Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

        Comment


        • Well, I'm glad you came back to say that, even if you could do it in your sleep. It needs saying. The use of the "in-group, out-group" technique has been going on for years and is scary. "Real" Americans . . .

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
            They know that dividing people so that the almost poor hate the really poor just increases their power.
            Well said. We've all become a little bit more desperate, leading people to getting a little more "kick down, kiss up" bullying. I'm saving my ire for the people at the top.

            Comment


            • Welfare does not generally include all of the other benefits like Medicaid, food stamps and housing assistance. So maybe having a kid gets you $37 in welfare, but you get more in foodstamps, Medicaid, and in some cases bumped up to better housing. I can tell you, we spend WAY too much money on housing; it could be done for a lot less money. I read that all the potential benefits in NC is like a $30,000 package. I imagine healthcare is the biggest chunk of that.

              At the end of the day, if taxes keep eroding my quality of life, and I see people on welfare getting the same QOL I get, I'm going to not be very motivated to work and pay taxes. As it is, I live in neighborhood full of negligent welfare moms that I see buying crap foods at the grocery with their food stamp card, not using discounts, perfect nails and weaves (ALWAYS) letting their kids run wild. It gets old. At least pick up the trash out front of the house we pay for your to live in.

              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

              Comment


              • And I'm no lover of the wealthy, LOL, but they sure as hell don't want to help. I just want the poor to stop having kids.

                http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                  Magnolia, I just found an article that opines why people are against welfare. It's an older article, so some of the dollar amounts may have changed a bit. The four biggest lies told about welfare reform

                  Myth #1: Welfare benefits go to minority women who never leave the dole.



                  Myth #2: Welfare encourages teen pregnancy and large, dependent families.



                  Myth #3: People on welfare live pretty well. - The dollar amounts in this section are old, but total welfare benefits in all states leave people well below poverty. So not to worry about the mythical Cadillac driving welfare recipient (which was not only wrong, but racist).

                  Myth #4: Welfare is a huge drain on the federal budget.

                  Also, I didn't check the above article for accuracy, but it jives with what I've read in different sources in the past. If anything is blatantly incorrect, I apologize.
                  Not incorrect, but pretty misleading propaganda. Point number one is true as far as it goes, welfare is evenly divided between whites and blacks, but whites make up 72% of the population while blacks make up only 13%. Point #2 is sourced by a 16 year old girl. I don't know about you, but I find that more than a little suspicious in a supposed "myth busting" article. In terms of point #3, I don't think people hate welfare because the recipients live like Kings. The problem is that they live as good or better than working class poor not on the dole. And of course there is a great deal of fraud within the system as well. There are at least some welfare recipients with Cadillacs or their equivalent, and tons with expensive cell phones, play stations, and HD TV sets. And there is nothing "racist" about pointing it out. Point #4 is true but besides the point. Just because there are bigger problems in the budget doesn't mean welfare should be ignored.

                  I agree that sterilization for cash is probably the most effective policy the US could implement not just to help with the welfare problem but also crime, overcrowding, and a host of other issues. And of course immigration policy would have to be shored up as well.

                  Finally, when discussing welfare we have to remember that AMD benefits just as much from these handouts as the underclass. Like most polices in this country, welfare is a scheme of the 1% that lines their own pockets, increases the underclass that the 1% use as their political base, and devastates the middle class.

                  Comment


                  • I totally agree that the middle class gets royally screwed at every turn. I've been thinking lately about the old "Alice Doesn't Day." It would be great if somehow, every person with a job called in sick on the same day. Just one day. They want to shut down the govt while they fight? It would be great to shut down the country for a day. Necessary services for the ill could continue so no one dies from it. Just one day.

                    I can dream.
                    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                    B*tch-lite

                    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                      It's weird because the people that bitch about these ideas also bitch about welfare. You could do something like perhaps give these women an IUD and $10,000. Fully reversible.
                      I like this idea and free sterilization for anyone that wants it.
                      Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

                      Comment


                      • So untrue. This is old too, it's even more disproportionate now:




                        It's simple math. Making blanket statements to support an agenda is dishonest.


                        In 40 states welfare pays more than an $8.00 an hour job. In 17 states the welfare package is more generous than a $10.00 an hour job.
                        In Hawaii, Alaska, Massachusetts, Connecticut, the District of Columbia, New York, and Rhode Island welfare pays more than a $12.00 an hour job—or two and a half times the minimum wage.
                        In nine states welfare pays more than the average first-year salary for a teacher. In 29 states it pays more than the average starting salary for a secretary. And in the six most generous states it pays more than the entry-level salary for a computer programmer.
                        Welfare benefits are especially generous in large cities. Welfare provides the equivalent of an hourly pretax wage of $14.75 in New York City, $12.45 in Philadelphia, $11.35 in Baltimore, and $10.90 in Detroit. For the hard-core welfare recipient, the value of the full range of welfare benefits substantially exceeds the amount the recipient could earn in an entry-level job. As a result, recipients are likely to choose welfare over work, thus increasing long-term dependence.
                        Not a problem? The federal government funds 126 separate programs designed to support low-income earners. 72 of these programs provide cash benefits to recipients. This is on top of additional welfare programs operated by state. There is literally an incentive not to work. Also, many people are now suffering grueling hours just to pay into these taxes(Britain is especially bad).

                        I suggest you stop looking for news in leftist websites and blogs, because time and time again they've been shown to be dishonest and flat out evil in their protection of their welfare state.
                        Make America Great Again

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post

                          1) The reason one cannot invoke Hitler or Mussolini into any discussion like this is that all serious historians have essentially agreed that it is false and ahistorical to discuss any of these people OUTSIDE of the context of nationalistic or racial superiority contexts....in other words, speaking about them in purely economic or ideological terms is an impossible representation of their views and policies. Hitler and The Duke were what they were not because of their views on redistributing money or about even the role of the state; these ideas were NOT invented by them, and have numerous examples throughout older and modern history of their use. These men are infamous monsters because of their sickening views on racial superiority, rebuilding of ancient empire, and creating "living space" (Hitler's words) for their people at any cost......Hitler was a NAZI, a caustic hater of jews, long before he was anything else. Any discussion of him, Mussolini and his brown-shirt visions of a rebuilt Roman empire, or Stalin's "state as a religion" mass murder of his own people, is a fools discussion without including these as the core of who they were and what they wanted....there is no modern parallel, outside of perhaps Cambodia or Maoist China. That is not my opinion. That is any educated historian's opinion.

                          2) The US is VERY far from communism, as this is the elimination of private property through a statist regime....it is much closer to fascism politically, and these 2 systems are mortal enemies of one another. (Hitler wrote this out in his justification for Operation Barbarosa, mixed in with the other 80% which concerned racial superiority) Mussolini coined the fascism term, preferring instead though the Italian word for "Corporatist", as fascism is the merger of state and corporate interests.

                          The US and Russia, per Putin's comments about socialism, are both corporatist oligarchies. What this means is that large capital runs both countries, and chooses both legislators and bureaucrats to protect their investments. This is what Obamacare was....not socialism, in which central planning and governmental control of the means of production are employed, but corporatism....it MANDATED by law that I buy a product from a PRIVATE company with stockholders. If that is anyone's definition of socialism or communism (abolishment of all private properyy), I suggest they read something once in awhile that Glenn Beck didn't write. Obama is a corporatist technocrat, Putin a tyrannical oligarch. They have much common ground.
                          Thanks for taking the time to explain these terms, it's tiresome to hear the constant misuse of terms that have specific meanings. The AFC is NOT socialism. Obama could not be further from a socialist.
                          Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

                          Comment


                          • Btw, our debt ceiling is increasing substantially thanks to these policies. Last year there was $100 billion dollars put into federal welfare. To say I hate it is an understatement.
                            Make America Great Again

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                              Thanks for taking the time to explain these terms, it's tiresome to hear the constant misuse of terms that have specific meanings. The AFC is NOT socialism. Obama could not be further from a socialist.
                              lol it's the definition of socialism. ie; the myth of making all people the same(what this healthcare plan does), but more about funding their own pockets and stepping all over the backs of others.

                              The rest of that is disinformation and propaganda regarding Hitler and cries of racism. It's taking an emotional stance into a political debate.
                              Make America Great Again

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                                Anyway, I'm pro-welfare because I'm pro-feeding-children and because I believe it's one of the cheaper alternatives to just throwing the poor out on to the streets or warehousing poor children. And I'd love to see incentives for people to have fewer children. Sterilization for junkies would be cheap - enough cash to get their next fix would probably do it. Sorry if that sounds cold.
                                You can support feeding children without being pro-welfare. That's like if I said, "I want people to have clothing, so I support government operated clothing factories." It's a mistake to believe that something won't get done just because government isn't doing it.

                                Something like this happened when Grover Cleveland was president, I believe. There had been a very bad drought in Texas, and Congress passed a bill to give $10,000 to Texans so that they could buy seed. He vetoed it and said that charity is not the business of government. Private citizens in other parts of the country ended up raising about ten times what Congress had promised.
                                In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

                                This message has been intercepted by the NSA, the only branch of government that listens.

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