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  • A few things;

    digging the vibe YB. (I have hippie parents).

    Both Zach and Chocotaco I find to be very arrogant. It's the only thing that shits me about these 2 otherwise great MDA posters.

    To me, all the food chemistry peat goes on with is solid, nobody is gunna fuck up eating it. The big problem with Peat is all the hormonal health stuff he goes on with. He makes a whole lot of assumptions on hormones. Nobody has solid science on hormones. I just can't accept his hormonal/ stress "truths".




    Sent from my iPhone
    A little primal gem - My Success Story
    Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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    • Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
      Both Zach and Chocotaco I find to be very arrogant. It's the only thing that shits me about these 2 otherwise great MDA posters.
      I think for Choco it is a relatively new thing. I do not recall him being that way in years past. It seems to me that he got tired of being told "You are young and male so go sit in the corner and play with your hotwheels" when giving advice so got more direct about it. That directness sometimes edges towards "You are an idiot and I am right" but eh, who among us is perfect?

      As for Zach, while I seldom agree with his approach, the man has helped people. Sure, we can argue whether or not MDA is the place for that kind of help (not looking to get into the whole LC vs Peat debate) but the bottom line is he has helped people. Has he hurt people as well (pushing for sugar w/ PCOS etc) who knows? Frankly, I am of the opinion that those with certain metabolic/auto-immune/whatever conditions should educate themselves about said condition and know what works best. I also think everyone on this forum should know what the PBP says (if not the book then at least the 'start here' section). Given that baseline education they should know what parts of Zach's approach works within the limits of PBP as they follow it. HF/LC does not work for everyone and it is nice to have a differing view even if it goes a bit (or a lot) too far at times.

      Eh, but enough about that. It's Sunday (except where Jen is apparently) and I should be doing something useful like actually earning the money Congress promises to pay me if they ever decide to let the government go back to work.

      Comment


      • Sugar is not a drug. Anyone who believes it is is idiotic. Sugar is no more of a drug than coconut oil is.
        Yeah this is what annoys me are the posters that go around telling people they are sugar addicts/need to break the sugar addiction etc. and often it's over fruit consumption. If you are freebasing pixie sticks, OK, maybe you are a sugar addict. But if you want some fruit, it's fine, it's healthy. all the other stuff- cookies, cake, ice cream are sugar/fat combos and addictive due to that combo. And the fat free sugar treats are chemical bombs designed in a lab to make you eat.

        It's a lot like what CW did with fat- tried to make people shamed for eating it. People made themselves unhealthy avoiding fat. And hear all the time we read about people getting unhealthy by avoiding carbs and sugar- hair loss, depression it goes on and on. Merrily eating a pound of bacon but worried about eating some blueberries.

        http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
        Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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        • Wow, this forum has changed!

          I don't get the mud slinging on this thread. What are we arguing/insulting each other about? Are we really name calling to see who name calls more? #irony

          I like Joanie; I like zach. It is so easy to take things the wrong way when it is on the internet, and we already have a bias against those whom we do not consider "one of us."

          I don't really neatly fit into either camp, and I don't care.

          For what it's worth, zach actually told me to go back to eating low carb on my journal a few weeks back because that seems to work better for me! He isn't suggesting en blanc to go the sugar route.

          Eta: just because something activates serotonin receptors (sugar) doesn't make it a drug. If so, love, sex, and exercise all are drugs. Eat sugar if it works for you.

          Oh noes I offered a nutrition tip!!! Must go back it up with uber sexy pictures!!!! Pics are in my profile. I ain't scared.

          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
          Last edited by turquoisepassion; 10-06-2013, 06:51 AM.
          ------
          HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

          My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


          Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

          " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

          Comment


          • Originally posted by canio6 View Post
            I think for Choco it is a relatively new thing. I do not recall him being that way in years past. It seems to me that he got tired of being told "You are young and male so go sit in the corner and play with your hotwheels" when giving advice so got more direct about it. That directness sometimes edges towards "You are an idiot and I am right" but eh, who among us is perfect?

            As for Zach, while I seldom agree with his approach, the man has helped people. Sure, we can argue whether or not MDA is the place for that kind of help (not looking to get into the whole LC vs Peat debate) but the bottom line is he has helped people. Has he hurt people as well (pushing for sugar w/ PCOS etc) who knows? Frankly, I am of the opinion that those with certain metabolic/auto-immune/whatever conditions should educate themselves about said condition and know what works best. I also think everyone on this forum should know what the PBP says (if not the book then at least the 'start here' section). Given that baseline education they should know what parts of Zach's approach works within the limits of PBP as they follow it. HF/LC does not work for everyone and it is nice to have a differing view even if it goes a bit (or a lot) too far at times.

            Eh, but enough about that. It's Sunday (except where Jen is apparently) and I should be doing something useful like actually earning the money Congress promises to pay me if they ever decide to let the government go back to work.
            Canio, you are making too much sense. Didn't you say you work(ed) for the government

            I remember when the "sugar people" showed up here, and the turbulent times filled with heated debate, arguments, name calling and such. I thought times have changed, but I guess not that much. Anyway, I remember raising my eyebrows a lot while perusing the "non-primal perspective" back then, but still I kept reading quietly and trying to learn.

            But to get to the point, Low-high carb Primal/Paleo/PHD/WPF/W30 etc. etc. do not work for everyone, and those WOEs actually can make matters worse for some (me). I don't want to expand on the specific of my personal situation here, only wanted to point out that my quality of life has vastly improved thanks to those people.

            I don't know why orthodox Primals are reacting so violently to the out of the box stance and why is it that it's always one of them who initiates the hostility and negativity on this forum. Live and let live.

            P.S. In the meantime OP has deleted their original post.
            Last edited by Graycat; 10-06-2013, 06:57 AM.

            Comment


            • Wow, this forum has changed!

              And YogaBare, I'm going to follow your lead (OMG CULT OMG) and join the the love movement.



              Ps. I have argued with zach and derp on various issues extensively. I find that if I am civil and provide links to support what I say, they do the same. I hypothesize that if I were to sling insults and not provide links to support what I said, they would do the same.

              The most recent example of this was over meat, iron supps, and iron toxicity in graycat's journal.
              Last edited by turquoisepassion; 10-06-2013, 07:10 AM.
              ------
              HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

              My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


              Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

              " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

              Comment


              • Peace and love is booooring, so keep up the good fighting guys! So lets get some more low blows and hairpulling here!
                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                - Schopenhauer

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                  Peace and love is booooring, so keep up the good fighting guys! So lets get some more low blows and hairpulling here!
                  and gross!
                  beautiful
                  yeah you are

                  Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                  lol

                  Comment


                  • But to get to the point, Low-high carb Primal/Paleo/PHD/WPF/W30 etc. etc. do not work for everyone, and those WOEs actually can make matters worse for some (me). I don't want to expand on the specific of my personal situation here, only wanted to point out that my quality of life has vastly improved thanks to those people.
                    Yeah, I don't appreciate the tone that some people seem to take that makes a need for carbs seem like a moral shortcoming or weakness. Or a failure. It's really nothing more than chemistry that makes some people run better off higher carbs.

                    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

                    Comment


                    • Wow, this thread improved significantly towards the last several pages. Surprisingly, starting with Derp's posts! Though I think that's after some people went to bed.

                      YB, this is totally off-topic (but why not?), but would you be interested in meeting with me and Hulky for drinks if we're in London for our honeymoon next March?
                      Depression Lies

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                      • Well Zach the fact that you resort to made up posts (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1330533) , with fake PMs and downright lies pretty much sums up who and what you are. It is about the saddest thing I have ever seen but I am sure you will find a way to achieve new lows.
                        Last edited by Dirlot; 10-06-2013, 09:29 AM.
                        Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                        PS
                        Don't forget to play!

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                        • Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                          digging the vibe YB.


                          Originally posted by turquoisepassion View Post
                          And YogaBare, I'm going to follow your lead (OMG CULT OMG) and join the the love movement.
                          See now. Isn't that better?

                          Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
                          Wow, this thread improved significantly towards the last several pages. Surprisingly, starting with Derp's posts! Though I think that's after some people went to bed.

                          YB, this is totally off-topic (but why not?), but would you be interested in meeting with me and Hulky for drinks if we're in London for our honeymoon next March?
                          What about all my peace and love bullcrap?

                          And - YEOW! - yes I'd love to meet you and Hulky in London - that would be awesome!! You'll be the second MDA poster that I'll have met in real life
                          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                          - Ray Peat

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by canio6 View Post
                            I think for Choco it is a relatively new thing. I do not recall him being that way in years past. It seems to me that he got tired of being told "You are young and male so go sit in the corner and play with your hotwheels" when giving advice so got more direct about it. That directness sometimes edges towards "You are an idiot and I am right" but eh, who among us is perfect?

                            As for Zach, while I seldom agree with his approach, the man has helped people. Sure, we can argue whether or not MDA is the place for that kind of help (not looking to get into the whole LC vs Peat debate) but the bottom line is he has helped people. Has he hurt people as well (pushing for sugar w/ PCOS etc) who knows? Frankly, I am of the opinion that those with certain metabolic/auto-immune/whatever conditions should educate themselves about said condition and know what works best. I also think everyone on this forum should know what the PBP says (if not the book then at least the 'start here' section). Given that baseline education they should know what parts of Zach's approach works within the limits of PBP as they follow it. HF/LC does not work for everyone and it is nice to have a differing view even if it goes a bit (or a lot) too far at times.

                            Eh, but enough about that. It's Sunday (except where Jen is apparently) and I should be doing something useful like actually earning the money Congress promises to pay me if they ever decide to let the government go back to work.
                            I don't have a problem with Choco because he is a young male, or with Zach because he is Peaty. The issue is that they take their N=1 successes and/or failures and then assume that their experience will be identical for people who are not young males. That is why they get crap for it.

                            They use the excuse that they have to protect people from the primal or low carb horrors they will experience, without any acknowledgement that they may be causing harm to just as many people as they are helping. Zach actually brags about the fact that he has scared off several of the overweight women around here that follow low carb approaches. I find that disgusting. Overall, they both serve to shut down discussions more often than they enhance them. I actually like Choco a lot and when he is off his high horse he has some great insight. But the forums were a much better place before Zach joined.

                            I follow the autoimmune version of a paleo diet that pretty much saved my life. But I have noticed that on these forums close to 50% of people who try this approach have no success with their conditions. That in no way changes the advice I give people, but I am aware of the limitations of my approach. I wish Choco and Zach would just do the same.
                            Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                            http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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                            • Originally posted by canio6 View Post
                              Eh, but enough about that. It's Sunday (except where Jen is apparently) and I should be doing something useful like actually earning the money Congress promises to pay me if they ever decide to let the government go back to work.
                              It was Monday here by the time you posted this

                              Good luck with getting back to work. Now that situation looks like a total clusterfwck from to us outsiders.
                              If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

                              Originally posted by tfarny
                              If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Misabi View Post
                                Good luck with getting back to work. Now that situation looks like a total clusterfwck from to us outsiders.
                                Pretty much looks like that to us insiders as well!
                                Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                                http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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