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  • "Your Health is Your Responsibility" ?

    When my Doctor (G.P. at Kaiser) said this to me last winter, I thought it was just a particular response to our relationship. After all I was defying them by not following their diet and I was not taking their strongly recommended statins.

    But in the last few weeks I've learned that this is a common policy all over the country, both at Kaiser and with other Doctors. When did this happen? Doctors certainly used to think and act as if my health was their responsibility. Now my G.P. asks me if I want a blood test he suggests, and if I don't say anything he doesn't order it. Is Obamacare influencing this? Is this the policy now everywhere?

    About 20 years ago Dentists adopted this policy. So I took my teeth back from the worlds' dentists and have done much better. But it seems unfair to ask me to take over the care of my whole body. I never ever learned anything at all about human anatomy, biology or bio-chemistry before reading Primal Blueprint.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 09-25-2013, 04:04 PM.
    "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

  • #2
    I'd embrace that policy/concept.
    I think America's general culture has become hypochondriac. Medicine doesn't save more lives now than in the middle ages because of constant observation. Medicine saves more lives because surgery can now fix a hole in your head. Most illnesses that need early medical detection 1: are not scanned for every time you go to a Dr and 2: are usually caused by poor general health, not a spontaneous formation.

    When something is wrong with your body which you can't fix: you know. A broken bone, infected corn or salmonella colonization are pretty self-evident. Everything else should be kept in balance by eating well, resting well and exercising well. After the age of 50, some more regular checks around the body and bi-annual Drs' appointments may be required. Up until then, you're fine. When it comes to things like certain cancers which spontaneously form: Drs rarely know until late anyway, unless you're being observed due to genetic predisposition. And some rarer illnesses they can find but not cure. Basically take care of yourself, keep an eye out for obvious problems/symptoms and anything that happens after that was probably going to happen anyway. After all, some illness is inevitable. Don't stress.
    Last edited by Kochin; 09-25-2013, 04:33 PM.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

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    • #3
      I embrace that concept. My primary care physician is a Naturopath and that is EXACTLY how they look at it. A doctor's visit cannot overcome a sedentary lifestyle, crappy diet, smoking, heavy drinking, drug use etc. A doctor should HELP you to achieve health, but you have to participate, daily. I think one of the reasons that the US Health Care model is such a failure is because so many people think that they don't need to actually do anything. It's all up to their doctor. I'm glad to hear that even allopathic physicians are rejecting that and telling people that they can only help, you have to do the work.
      High Weight: 225
      Weight at start of Primal: 189
      Current Weight: 174
      Goal Weight: 130

      Primal Start Date: 11/26/2012

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      • #4
        Probably shouldn't be one or the other absolute. We do need more self-direction--my parents and their peers passively accept bankrupting medications and can't even remember what they're for. At the same time the public health field does get it right once in a while--would be unwise to abolish it.
        37//6'3"/185

        My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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        • #5
          I can totally get behind that philosophy, and think it's about damned time. I've known too many people who ran their bodies into the ground with bad habits--habits they knew were bad!--and then complained about doctors who couldn't fix them when they broke down. I've also heard a lot of complaining about doctors rushing in to prescribe a lot of meds, rather than actually treating the ailment, but that's frequently come from people who refuse to make necessary lifestyle changes.

          So what's the doc to do? Healing has to be a joint, cooperative effort between the patient and the physician, but too many people see the physician as Mr. Fix-It, and if he can't give them a cure then he must not know what he's doing, or he's just a shill for "Big Pharma." I've seen people get angry at being told to do things like lose weight, quit smoking, cut back on junk food, or get more exercise. As frustrating as that is to encounter as a bystander, it's got to be demoralizing as hell to be a physician dealing with demanding, noncompliant patients who expect to be saved from themselves without having to do anything.

          I don't have a scientific or medical background at all. But when I have a health problem, I'll go research it as best I can, and if I need to learn the "science stuff," I'll find a way to do it. Thanks to the Internet, there are plenty of layman's explanations for what's gone wrong and how to fix it. I didn't need an allergist to do elimination diets to find out I was allergic to soy. When I started looking into metabolism years ago, to figure out why I was fat and getting fatter despite eating a low-fat, high-carb diet, I didn't need to be an MD to understand it. I just had to care enough to want to know so I could help myself out of that mess.

          So many medical resources get directed to people who simply refuse to take care of themselves, or who refuse to cooperate with treatment. There is only so much doctors can do in those cases, and they shouldn't have to carry the entire burden of responsibility--or blame for not fixing the unfixable. Reasonable people already know that their health is their responsibility--but there are too many others who simply refuse to get that message, so doctors have to spell it out for them in stronger terms.

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          • #6
            OMG, Personal Responsibility? I thought that was illegal in 21st century America...
            The Champagne of Beards

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            • #7
              If you can't even take personal responsibility for your own body you're hopeless

              Abolish nanny state and "guidelines" let people find out the truth
              Make America Great Again

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                If you can't even take personal responsibility for your own body you're hopeless

                Abolish nanny state and "guidelines" let people find out the truth
                Yep!
                The Champagne of Beards

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                • #9
                  From the comments I take it that this is not a wide spread policy today, but that people would like to be.
                  "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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                  • #10
                    I would like if I could be that gentle all the time.....

                    In dealing with the severely ill, like I do in advanced diabetics, you have to be VERY forceful with them.

                    I think overall though, medicine has become very sensitive to the whole "my doctor pushes pills, orders me around, acts like such a know it all" thing....so a lot of us just go with "Or not. Don't listen to me and get sick or eat cabbage every meal or rub a rabbit's foot. Your call buddy." In medicine, you learn one simple truth:

                    Facts and science do not matter to a lot of people. Period, end of story. They are simply going to imagine whatever reality they desire is the truth....trying to overcome decades of pseudoscience and wishful thinking won't happen in my ten minutes in front of me, so just let them do whatever they want. People are crazy, let me tell you

                    In my own work though, it has to go a little differently....

                    I tend to be very blunt, so my basic spiel is like this:

                    "Understand that when you go to a grocery store or restaurant, 95% of the things available to you are unnatural and disease causing. That is the reality....you can choose to do what everyone else does, and be sick, or you can listen to me about which 5% won't hasten your appointment with a casket. I cannot do it for you even when you do decide to listen, so almost all of this is on you. I am just an advisor on keeping you alive. If that is something you're interested in, I will tell you how to the best of my knowledge. After that, my part is done."

                    This kind of candid talk appeals to people, especially the mid-50's man that is my average patient.
                    "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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                    • #11
                      It's my core belief and long has been.

                      Granted, it all only goes so far -- i mean, you do the best you can with what you know. But yes, I think it's ultimately our responsibility. Why would you give that up to someone else?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                        you do the best you can with what you know
                        Totally agree. Doctors supplement this in case you're not sure, and you can move some of the liability to them. That is all.
                        My chocolatey Primal journey

                        Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by theycallmelazarus View Post
                          understand that when you go to a grocery store or restaurant, 95% of the things available to you are unnatural and disease causing. That is the reality....you can choose to do what everyone else does, and be sick, or you can listen to me about which 5% won't hasten your appointment with a casket. I cannot do it for you even when you do decide to listen, so almost all of this is on you. I am just an advisor on keeping you alive. If that is something you're interested in, i will tell you how to the best of my knowledge. After that, my part is done.
                          amen!
                          Randal
                          AKA: Texas Grok

                          Originally posted by texas.grok
                          Facebook is to intelligence what a black hole is to light
                          http://hardcoremind.com/

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                          • #14
                            I totally agree with your doctor. It's how I have been running my health for the last few years.
                            The doctor has become a source of information for me but in the end I decide what's best for me.

                            Here in Holland many people still believe that the doctor is always right and that you should follow his advise to the teeth. However people seem to forget that the doctor is just an other human and can make mistakes. The doctor can't tell you how you feel, he can't see everything, so naturally his advise comes based on asumptions.

                            Yes, in some cases you need a doctor, most of the time it's because things are going on with your body that you can't fix yourself but it's still your choice.
                            Every day you make choices, good or bad and you'll have to live with the consequences. Same goes for your health.

                            I visit the doctor regularly. They are my sounding-boards, they give me advise and sometimes they even give me tests or meds when I ask for them but it's me who decided which actions to take with all the info I can find...
                            My story, My thought....

                            It's all about trying to stay healthy!!!!

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                            • #15
                              ^ Yep. My parents take the word of the doctor like it's the law. In my entire life, I've always been far below the "You should drink 2 liters of water each day" line. I've never felt/been dehydrated. Our doctor recently told me that I should drink more (granted, I had diarrhea for a week or so, but still... It's over now, by the way ). At the time my parents kept pushing me to drink one more glass, and two glasses after I'd been to the toilet etc. etc.

                              ... Which only causes me to have to pee every half an hour. Which is annoying as hell when you have diarrhea.
                              "Bread-Bread-Dinner
                              It ain't makin' me any thinner
                              I eat a sandwich for break-fast
                              And then I have a sugar blast!
                              I eat toasted bread for lunch
                              And enjoy my mid-day crunch!
                              At dinner I eat pasta
                              And end my day with a sugar disasta!"

                              From the How am I not starving??? thread. Enjoy the read.

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