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The consequences of eating Primal

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  • #16
    The idea that India and China becoming more American in their tastes, leading to catastrophe, is a fallacy. It is a very simple, perfect, and totally incorrect progression. Here is why:

    Because a strange thing happens when you take a finite thing (meat production), add in long distances to transport it (these countries produce a tiny fraction of their consumption), and growing demand....

    Prices go through the roof.

    As this happens, as it already has begun to, the more traditional Chinese, Indian, Brazillian, etc, foods of a given country will heavily undercut the sale of beef and pork. Meat of "American" style will become something of a status symbol for the wealthy, and this changes the consumption equation.

    Secondly, we are in absolutely no danger of the world's eating habits becoming "too paleo". This implies meat that is naturally-raised, lived well (and shortly), and is then eaten head to tail. For example, my neighbor has two cows that will be slaughtered on Nov 4. Both are only 4 years old, have lived on pasture their entire lives, calved, and will be leaving us soon. We will be using the hide for blankets and rugs, eating all but the gut organs which will go as dog food, and will be feeding about 8 people for over a year.

    This is the future....not a way to further create efficiencies into a centralized system, but a gradual DE-centralization of food and meat production. Transport prices will necessitate it, and those that insist on STAYING centralized should get used to paying a king's ransom for beef or pork. This includes parts of the US that only know how to consume meat, and produce very little. The same is true for whole countries. The theme will be the same for the next few decades: Make it close to home or be ready to pay out the nose for it. Period.
    "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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    • #17
      This is just a general thought, not directed at the OP or anyone in particular, but if you REALLY wanted to reduce "over population", feel free to make the sacrifice...
      I doing my part for the Earth by eating those horrid, evil cows who are filing our air with methane.
      Just sayin'

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      • #18
        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
        Again brainwashed. You did not look up Joe Salatin, did you.

        Seriously, if you want to live in harmony with nature you will live your true nature.

        Feeding the humans with grains grains and more grains has CREATED the population problem, not solved it.
        what is your true nature? killing cows and pigs so that you can eat something tasty and supposedly nutritious? or you kill just because you can?
        why do you assume meat ought to be replaced with mountains of grains? is that the best you personally can do with your diet?

        you know we also evolved a "reasoning ability" and an ability to feel "compassion" along the way. do you know we even have conventions to treat prisoners of war with dignity (how did our true nature get us this far?) and not execute/torture just because we can (and is probably more economical to dispose them off quickly)? not every thing needs to be evaluated on pure economics (e.g. slavery, oppression, invasions).
        Last edited by 70in2012; 09-23-2013, 07:44 PM.
        Few but ripe.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Rusty View Post
          I doing my part for the Earth by eating those horrid, evil cows who are filing our air with methane.
          Just sayin'
          Good thoughts, but misplaced. Since you are eating, they are also force bred, farmed billions every year.
          Few but ripe.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
            The idea that India and China becoming more American in their tastes, leading to catastrophe, is a fallacy. It is a very simple, perfect, and totally incorrect progression. Here is why:

            Because a strange thing happens when you take a finite thing (meat production), add in long distances to transport it (these countries produce a tiny fraction of their consumption), and growing demand....
            I agree with the part that prices help adjust supply and demand and that businesses will adjust the way they operate to make most profits (local supply vs transporting over long distances). That could also mean that transporting is more efficient price wise for some (lets see if some locally produced pork can compete with something imported from China!).

            However, there is not doubt that aggregate meat demand, absent a significant change in people's eating habits, is set to go only one way. That is up. Hundreds of millions are moving up the wealth ladder in the emerging economies. What was once used to be a festival or special occasions food, is becoming once, twice or more a week affair.

            My question is more fundamental. Why? Why do you need to eat so much meat? Americans in 2012 consumed more than 270 lbs of meat per head per year. That's a lot! No?
            Few but ripe.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
              my neighbor has two cows that will be slaughtered on Nov 4. Both are only 4 years old, have lived on pasture their entire lives, calved, and will be leaving us soon. We will be using the hide for blankets and rugs, eating all but the gut organs which will go as dog food, and will be feeding about 8 people for over a year.
              This is so efficient, economical and healthy for all concerned. I figured about the same when I had the opportunity to buy 1/4 beast. It lasted us about 3 months, so in effect one animal per year per family. I would love to be able to repeat the experience and even make a bit more - we did not get the bones or fat or organs, and certainly not the hide. Well done to you and your neighbour.

              Don't know how you manage the same on a scale to feed whole cities tho.
              Annie Ups the Ante
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread117711.html

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              • #22
                Originally posted by MarielleGO View Post
                Okay, I'm a critical Pagan. Living in harmony with nature (as much as living in a city allows me to do) and thanking mother nature for all that she is giving me... hence my following question popped up in my head...

                Around this forum I see many people eating a lot of meat and eggs. Okay, I get it, that's what our ancestors use to eat. However back then there were a whole lot of less people walking around this earth. It was sustainable to eat all the meat you could because in ratio there were a lot more animals on the earth (and they had a lot more space to grow and reproduce)
                The second thing I notice is that everybody here is really enthusiastic about being primal and have converted a lot of people to primal. I find myself doing exactly the same thing.

                However if so many people will convert to living primal and eat a lot of meat (a pound, 2 pounds a day) how long will the earth be able to sustain this... aren't there just too many people to feed without the grain production and industrialized foods?

                Humanity is still expending and taking up space all around the world... yet we all want to eat grass-fed meat because it's better for us???

                While health wise I know it's better to live primal... I just can't help but think about what an increase in meat intake from all of the converts will do to the world....
                The solution is simple: we kill the non primal eaters, thus there is enough meat for the rest of us.
                http://lifemutt.blogspot.sg/ - Gaming, Food Reviews and Life in Singapore

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                • #23
                  AMonkey, what a brilliant idea... how nice and quiet the world will be,...

                  Lazarus, I prefer that way of having meat as well. My family use to do that. Buy into one cow and have meat for a year. Sadly my local butcher doesn't have a plan like that. and I would have to buy a huge freezer.

                  70in2012, I do agree with you that on average humans eat too much meat. Here in Holland the standard is that you need half a pound per day per person. Maybe even less. I think I'm keeping very close to that normally. I buy 1 pound of minced meat and my bf and I eat from it for 2 days or a bit less...but yeah I think it could be a bit less that the everage person eat...

                  Next year I'm going to redo my garden. I just bought a house with a huge garden and we are going to grow our own veggies and fruits. (or at least the ones we use often). So I'm contributing a bit....
                  My story, My thought....

                  It's all about trying to stay healthy!!!!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MarielleGO View Post
                    70in2012, I do agree with you that on average humans eat too much meat. Here in Holland the standard is that you need half a pound per day per person. Maybe even less. I think I'm keeping very close to that normally. I buy 1 pound of minced meat and my bf and I eat from it for 2 days or a bit less...but yeah I think it could be a bit less that the everage person eat...

                    Next year I'm going to redo my garden. I just bought a house with a huge garden and we are going to grow our own veggies and fruits. (or at least the ones we use often). So I'm contributing a bit....
                    Good thoughts. Wish you the best.
                    Few but ripe.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by AMonkey View Post
                      The solution is simple: we kill the non primal eaters, thus there is enough meat for the rest of us.
                      Good idea. Lets go to war. Like the northies went to war with southies on slavery.
                      Would be fun to just open the farm house gates and watch primal dudes fight (and possibly eat) the cattle.
                      Who knows dudes like RM might powerclean a cow! Mr Anthony might position himself at a high ground defensively and do a headstand for the ladies watching from a distance.
                      Few but ripe.

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                      • #26
                        @ Annieh "Don't know how you manage the same on a scale to feed whole cities tho."

                        I have read about and put a lot of thinking into the same question....I think the answer is simple and can be put in one sentence: Decentralized, self-sustaining farms.

                        As anyone would tell you, a much larger percentage used to be farmers. In their place, huge corporations have assumed the role of making all of our food and meat. I always find it ironic when people complain about how Monsanto or ConAgra use GMO, are responsible for all evil on Earth, and must be stopped....and then in the next sentence explain that what we are doing is not sustainable.

                        No. It is not.....because of the reason they just outlined.

                        These corporations exist on monoculture, of plants, animals, and feed for the animals. This practice is devastating for topsoil, creates dead zones of fertilizer runoff, and is a clear case of corporate hegemony into the most basic of human need. It is truly amazing that they have pulled it off and convinced people that their way is the only way.

                        A real farm is a self-enclosed, nearly completely self-sustaining entity. The animals, crops, all of it moves in a cycle that is mutually beneficial. I have many neighbors that farm, and all have told me essentially the same thing....that outside of basic equipment, gas for tractors (which some don't even use), and markets, they don't ever need anything to come or go. They are their own little ecosystem....and once they leave, the land is reclaimed very quickly, with strong soil for nature to move into. One man I know has made his entire home such that, as he says, "In 100 years this will all be forest again. Everything here will either be taken by my children or by the Earth when I die." Even his wood home....

                        It would be perfectly scalable for cities if we simply had MORE people farming, and FEWER in the city. Again though, corporate and governmental power is helped by dependent, city living....my farmer/hunter neighbors that make their own blankets out of deer fur are much less useful to them. If we were to have a national program, like previous ones such as the Homestead Act (long time ago, I know) or CCC, we could return to a system in which 10-15% of the population farmed, in simple and sustainable ways, and it would easily be able to keep up with the current model, likely surpassing it....many of these people are broke now, working in dead-end jobs or recently lost a better one....if we were to empower them, give them small plots of land to produce food on with a subsidy (cheap compared to welfare systems), and have them producing both food and tax revenue, we would really change things.

                        There are a million ways it COULD be done, is all I am saying. It is not impossible....it is that the powers that be would be hurt pretty badly by such a system, and they are the (lone) profiteers of the current one. People are unhealthy, underemployed, and want something more for their lives across the country. That is not news.

                        To say that for all of us to live as we were designed, with yes, more meat eating likely, cannot be done.....that is an amazing victory against real change by the powerful.

                        Like the despots of generations have said for a long time: you don't have to STOP people from wanting change. That takes guns and you will lose eventually (see any recently fallen dictator)....you have to convince them that YOUR system, your power, is the only viable option, that it is the only way.

                        Well done. Looks like you have succeeded for some.
                        "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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                        • #27
                          Sounds like a primal man!
                          I, myself and my beef!

                          http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vFaWvvVuz_Y
                          Few but ripe.

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                          • #28
                            If I could have my own farm it would be a ranch. I would graze my cattle on the native grassland, however few I needed. I would have chickens and pigs to eat my food scraps. I would have a small garden. I would milk my cow. I'd put up cans for winter and trade extra with my neighbors.

                            But since I only rent on a property covered in avocado trees, I have to buy cattle, pigs, chickens, eggs, milk and veggies from the store, give away some of my avocados, and sit in a cubicle all day. It's the best I can do.

                            I spent 10 years as a vegetarian and then another 15 as an occasional meat eater. It was not healthy for me. I'm the healthiest I've ever been now in my late 40s. I will never go back to the barely awake state I used to live in.
                            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                            • #29
                              Ever since I live in the city I'm dreaming of my selfsufficient farm... It's something I hope to do when I'm fifty or something like that... I'd buy a small house with a piece of land and have a few of every animals... a few cows, enough chickens, a few pigs, a few sheep. Have my own vegetable plot and orchard....
                              It's my retirement dream
                              My story, My thought....

                              It's all about trying to stay healthy!!!!

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                              • #30
                                Well, I don't eat a pound of meat per day and neither do my kids. Not yet, lol - they are 12 and 14 so I expect them to start eating like fiends any day now. I buy a side of beef from a local farm every year, plus whole chickens, and a lamb. I keep all of the organs and bones from the lamb and cow and also buy a lot of bones from the farmers at the farmers market to keep me in bone broth all year long. Actually, I think the side of beef will last a lot longer this year.

                                Right now, I'm stocking up on bulk tomatoes and other things to can sauces etc, and will buy almost anything farmers have too much of cause it's cheap and I can usually figure out a tasty way to preserve. I'd love to have my own land and grow my own stuff, but that takes a lot of work and planning. Working on it!

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