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Strengthening the back for deadlift

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  • #16
    Originally posted by TheFastCat View Post
    at the bottom of an airsquat (using a pvc pipe for stability if required) move your knees "back" until your shins are perpendicular to the ground.
    Can you take a picture of you doing this or something? I can't imagine anybody being able to get into this position, but maybe I'm understanding you wrong.
    The Champagne of Beards

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    • #17
      It's not like I can actually do any tire flipping. I do not have a tire and wouldn't know where to keep one if I did.

      I feel quite alone in the wilderness about this. It seems people are very invested in believing that deadlifts are god's gift to the universe. Responses on Starting Strength to my query were quite dismissive. It seemed to me the answers were carefully worded to not recommend anything else so as not to make the SS program seem dangerous.

      I posted here by accident. I meant to post in the fitness forum.

      I guess I'll just stick with trying to get a pullup and doing lighter squats on press days for now. I keep running out of time on press day anyway.
      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
        It's not like I can actually do any tire flipping. I do not have a tire and wouldn't know where to keep one if I did.

        I feel quite alone in the wilderness about this. It seems people are very invested in believing that deadlifts are god's gift to the universe. Responses on Starting Strength to my query were quite dismissive. It seemed to me the answers were carefully worded to not recommend anything else so as not to make the SS program seem dangerous.

        I posted here by accident. I meant to post in the fitness forum.

        I guess I'll just stick with trying to get a pullup and doing lighter squats on press days for now. I keep running out of time on press day anyway.
        What about pulling sumo? Ever tried it?
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
          I have linked this on several occasions in the past and I'm gonna do it here SPECIFICALLY for you. If your sciatica is disc related then flexion work frequently exacerbates the condition. This exercise program is body weight only but helps strengthen the posterior chain quite well. The workout in the book is akin to what I would recommend in combination with chiropractic adjustments DURING a sciatic flare. You may do other exercises when the pain begins to recede, but this is the basis of a good starting point.

          Foundation Training : Home
          Foundation Training looks pretty interesting based on the TED video and other content there. Thanks for the link.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            Can you take a picture of you doing this or something? I can't imagine anybody being able to get into this position, but maybe I'm understanding you wrong.
            I just tried and fell on my ass..... I know knees shouldn't shoot forward, but aiming for absolutely no ankle flexion and a perpendicular tibia seems a little extreme to me.

            Oh wait I was at absolute bottom ATG when I tried.... maybe they mean at a higher level?
            Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-01-2013, 12:43 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by OneDeltaTenTango View Post
              Foundation Training looks pretty interesting based on the TED video and other content there. Thanks for the link.
              No problem. Its actually a whole lot tougher than it looks to get through the intermediate and advanced programs in the book. But when your done you get that "stable" feeling.

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              • #22
                In reality, I would never lift anything heavy in the manner of a deadlift anyway. Never have and never will. I would normally either do what you would do to flip a tire, which is to get underneath and push something up, or I would drag an item. Anything I actually lift by bending over is not heavy.
                i dont think i have ever done a dead lift movement irl either. i deadlift coz i like it as it is hard and it makes me feel like i have done something really taxing. i do have strong hammies which is also where i feel a dead lift. i think at the end of the day you need to do things coz they work for you and you enjoy them and also what your goals are. i'm an old lady lol so i am always mindful of the need for doing things i can keep doing forever. the other thing i have found with my exercising in general is the need for flexibility in my approach so it is not the End Of The World as we know it if you cant do say a deadlift. i've sat on my ass once and gained 6kgs when i had an ankle injury and couldnt run. never again. last time i injured my ankle, i concentrated on upper body which is also when i finally managed a chin up.

                if you use the hammies in deadlifts, maybe try some lunges to complement the squats and some other exercises to strengthen the posterior chain? i actually have to almost dead lift the dumbbells when i lunge anyways as they are so heavy. so by the time i have done 3 sets of 20 lunges. depending on if i have put the dumbbells down after each 10 when i change direction or not, i have done potentially 6 lighter deadlifts ( 42-46kgs instead of 50-70 kgs ) in split movements. up, lunge the weights, down. this may also be a way of incorporating lighter dead lifts incidentally while you are healing.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                  To be honest, I don't think I will ever deadlift again. The pain I have now is sciatica. It gets worse every day. It started when my back fell apart a couple weeks ago on deadlift. I cannot trust myself to do deadlift properly. I feel that I have screwed up my future life as an old lady, the one I had all mapped out to be a series of adventures.

                  In reality, I would never lift anything heavy in the manner of a deadlift anyway. Never have and never will. I would normally either do what you would do to flip a tire, which is to get underneath and push something up, or I would drag an item. Anything I actually lift by bending over is not heavy.

                  Nevertheless, I will keep squatting and I'm not averse to continuing to strengthen my back and body in other ways.
                  I have had sciatica. The first time was when I was pregnant and my son was sitting on my hip. The last few times have been because of SI joint dysfunction. I had PT for it but the joint kept going out of alignment so I had the therapist show me things to do to realign the joint.

                  You might want look into SI joint issues to see if that might be what is at the root of your sciatica.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                    I just tried and fell on my ass..... I know knees shouldn't shoot forward, but aiming for absolutely no ankle flexion and a perpendicular tibia seems a little extreme to me.

                    Oh wait I was at absolute bottom ATG when I tried.... maybe they mean at a higher level?
                    I can't imagine it makes a difference. Unless you're holding a railing, you're assplanting, or I'm interpreting the instructions incorrectly.
                    The Champagne of Beards

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                    • #25
                      Thanks seaweed for your understanding. And everybody else, too.

                      I was looking around the web and it seems that good mornings are recommended a lot. They don't look very intuitive. I can't imagine how they would be possible with any real weight. I will try them though. I know my problems are all in my weak glutes and stiff hamstrings. I'm stretching and wood and tennis ball rolling the hell out of myself trying to get better.

                      I have only ever had sciatica before with ill-fitting backpacks. And I used to have a habit of looping my thumb in my backpack hip belt until eventually it started to make part of my leg go numb. I think the neural wiring around that area is not so good.

                      I feel bad about not deadlifting anymore because it was my favorite lift. But now squats and overhead presses will be my favorite lifts and if all I can manage to fit in my time is squats, press, bench and pullup attempts I think it'll be enough for this old lady. I just really really hope I don't have to bail partway through my big backpack trip in Glacier starting next week. I have saved all my time for the entire year for this trip. Do you have any idea how hard it is to not take a day off for a year? And to have it ruined by the deadlift would be horrible.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        Thanks seaweed for your understanding. And everybody else, too.

                        I was looking around the web and it seems that good mornings are recommended a lot. They don't look very intuitive. I can't imagine how they would be possible with any real weight. I will try them though. I know my problems are all in my weak glutes and stiff hamstrings.
                        You won't do them with much weight at all. Just keep telling yourself "erectors engaged, hip hinge." I still think you should try some sumo pulls. I consider it a different exercise than deadlifts, even if they're both legal as a "deadlift" in competition.

                        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        I'm stretching and wood and tennis ball rolling the hell out of myself trying to get better.
                        Do you have a pull-up bar with ab straps? Or one of those dip towers that you can rest your elbows on? I've found that a little decompression/traction goes a long way on your type of injury.

                        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        I feel bad about not deadlifting anymore because it was my favorite lift. But now squats and overhead presses will be my favorite lifts and if all I can manage to fit in my time is squats, press, bench and pullup attempts I think it'll be enough for this old lady. I just really really hope I don't have to bail partway through my big backpack trip in Glacier starting next week. I have saved all my time for the entire year for this trip. Do you have any idea how hard it is to not take a day off for a year? And to have it ruined by the deadlift would be horrible.
                        Hope your trip turns out well. Try the decompression, and if you have to take ibuprofen or naproxen sodium to get through it, then suck it up and heal your liver after you get back.
                        The Champagne of Beards

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                        • #27
                          Oh wait I was at absolute bottom ATG when I tried.... maybe they mean at a higher level?
                          Yes - my bad for saying bottom of a squat - just stick your ass and hips as far behind you as possible while making your shins perpindicular (knees back). Great ham stretch as well.
                          ad astra per aspera

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TheFastCat View Post
                            Yes - my bad for saying bottom of a squat - just stick your ass and hips as far behind you as possible while making your shins perpindicular (knees back). Great ham stretch as well.
                            Still confused. Can you post a photo/video?
                            The Champagne of Beards

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                              You won't do them with much weight at all. Just keep telling yourself "erectors engaged, hip hinge." I still think you should try some sumo pulls. I consider it a different exercise than deadlifts, even if they're both legal as a "deadlift" in competition.



                              Do you have a pull-up bar with ab straps? Or one of those dip towers that you can rest your elbows on? I've found that a little decompression/traction goes a long way on your type of injury.



                              Hope your trip turns out well. Try the decompression, and if you have to take ibuprofen or naproxen sodium to get through it, then suck it up and heal your liver after you get back.
                              Fortunately my liver seems to be a fairly hardy organ. On my PCT hike I sometimes took 12 ibuprofen at a time without trouble.

                              I think the dip tower has elbow rests. I found some stretches online called "neural flossing" plus a few others that seem to help.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                              • #30
                                You might also want to try some piraformis stretches. Google it.

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