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  • #16
    ^ Very well might be where I got the idea from. Got in my head somehow....

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Rojo View Post
      Why approach it like that? I've seen guys do that -- think of women as some sort of evil monolith with all the "power".

      Forget "power". I met my former wife at a bar. We exchanged numbers. She called me the next day. I didn't think she was desperate, I thought "wow, she really digs me". Isn't that most people's reactions? I mean who are these haughty all-powerfull people who "bwa-ha-ha" when the phone rings. We're all mostly insecure adolelscents.
      Exchanging numbers is one thing that was different. And I assume this was somewhat closer to the Neolithic era? If someone asked me for my phone number... OMG, I am reachable like 234523417 ways that are totally locatable on the Internet. I would think they were either too stupid to use the Internet or were measuring how desperate I am. Either way, no.

      And women do need to be reminded to keep their power because they give it up, like at eye contact. I remember when I was selecting my boyfriend, women I knew went INSANE that I was actually weighing my options... "You can't DO that!" These women were sure that if you didn't just do exactly what he wanted when he wanted he would pick someone else... Which he will if he doesn't really want you. Win, win I would call that.
      “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
      Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

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      • #18
        Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post
        If someone asked me for my phone number... OMG, I am reachable like 234523417 ways that are totally locatable on the Internet. I would think they were either too stupid to use the Internet or were measuring how desperate I am. Either way, no.
        Yes, because everyone is that easily accessible, especially when you don't know them. Heaven forbid someone asks for a phone number to, I don't know, be able to speak with you when not face-to-face...it seems preposterous that someone would want to use a phone to talk, I know.

        Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post
        And women do need to be reminded to keep their power because they give it up, like at eye contact. I remember when I was selecting my boyfriend, women I knew went INSANE that I was actually weighing my options... "You can't DO that!" These women were sure that if you didn't just do exactly what he wanted when he wanted he would pick someone else... Which he will if he doesn't really want you. Win, win I would call that.
        Again, why think of it in terms of power? How about instead of two people trying to play games of trying to assert themselves over the other one, how about we act as adults and treat each other equally. You say women give it up to easily. In my experience, men give it up way more often then women do. But, instead of going around telling guys to assert their power over women, I suggest men respect themselves and other adults and don't play power games at all....but, why treat each other equally, right?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
          I have a very boring protocol for dating. Here's it is:

          1) Make my intentions clear and confirm she isn't spoken for in the first minute of talking to her.
          (Snipped)
          Overall though I think women have this crazy idea that men don't like assertiveness on their part...that is just plain garbage, copout stuff. It is sexy and very effective
          Wow - were I still single, I would totally ask you out on the strength of this post alone.
          I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Primal Moose View Post
            Again, why think of it in terms of power? How about instead of two people trying to play games of trying to assert themselves over the other one, how about we act as adults and treat each other equally. You say women give it up to easily. In my experience, men give it up way more often then women do. But, instead of going around telling guys to assert their power over women, I suggest men respect themselves and other adults and don't play power games at all....but, why treat each other equally, right?
            *You* turned keeping ones power into "power over" and "power games” and made respect and equality the antithesis of being powerful. It's not that this is an unusual or wrong thought- Jesus made a good argument that your power complicates your life a lot. But the argument wasn't that you don't have power. Pretending not to have power in some twisted form of respect is pretending the other person doesn't have power, or wishing they didn't, both of which are... Icky.

            ETA: I like this "demonstration of value" language that Rich and Laz pulled in. If you pretend to be powerless because you think the other person is, you lower your value and demonstrate that you don't think they have much value. It is insulting, which is not attractive (and I mean that in all senses of the word).
            Last edited by loafingcactus; 07-19-2013, 10:50 PM.
            “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
            Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

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            • #21
              do you really think primal women would have just sat around sharpening a bone waiting to be dragged off by the hair or would they have made their own interest pretty evident? when did women become passive partners in selecting mates?
              go back and sniff out the facts, make your interest known and leave your number.
              tell him to text you if he's not interested they seem to respond quicker if you do
              When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
              27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
              new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                who are these haughty all-powerfull people who "bwa-ha-ha" when the phone rings.
                Originally posted by rankamateur View Post
                This reply might be too Neolithic for you, but I think it's rude and potentially unfair to ask out someone while he's working
                This thread is hilarious - both those comments made me LOL

                I've found that when I meet someone special I don't want to play games. I just want to know them, so I'm open.


                And, I have a dating question!

                Recently I went on two first dates with two different guys. THe first guy was someone from a dating site, and he seemed nice, but I wasn't invested. The second guy was someone I met in reality and I knew I was attracted to, so I was excited. Before meeting the first guy I just threw on a pretty dress, so I looked quite dressed up. Meeting the second guy I put a lot of consideration into what I should wear, based on what we would be doing, how comfortable I would feel etc.

                The irony is that I probably looked better / like I'd made more effort for the guy I was less interested in. Any other ladies end up doing this?

                My question to the gents: would you prefer a girl to look good, even if a little overdressed, or more casual and comfortable?

                .
                Last edited by YogaBare; 07-20-2013, 07:31 AM.
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                  My question to the gents: would you prefer a girl to look good, even if a little overdressed, or more casual and comfortable?
                  Obviously it would depend on situation and location, but I do prefer more casual. Jeans and a Tshirt or a casual dress (the situation determines which) go a lot further with me than stilettos and a tight, short dress or something.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Primal Moose View Post
                    Obviously it would depend on situation and location, but I do prefer more casual. Jeans and a Tshirt or a casual dress (the situation determines which) go a lot further with me than stilettos and a tight, short dress or something.
                    Your reply makes me realise how my definition of "a little overdressed" is probably very different to most...

                    I was wearing havaianas with the pretty dress
                    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                    - Ray Peat

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                      Your reply makes me realise how my definition of "a little overdressed" is probably very different to most...

                      I was wearing havaianas with the pretty dress
                      Yeah, I'd consider that pretty casual, run of the mill dress. But I'm also a country boy and just going off what I grew up with, so feel free to take that into consideration ha.
                      Last edited by Primal Moose; 07-20-2013, 08:04 AM.

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                      • #26
                        I wonder what % of successful relationships start from a place where somebody's worrying about the balance of power. When I met DH, I had a long-distance, long-term boyfriend. We were grad students in the same department. A couple other guys had expressed interest and then completely backed off once they found out I had a boyfriend. DH was completely open about the fact that he thought I was super hot and super cool. For several months, we had a lot of fun going out with groups of grad students. Then he offered to make me dinner after I had given him a hard time about bachelor cooking. I went over to his place for dinner and basically never left. I broke up with my boyfriend a couple of weeks later. It's been 26 years. The fact that he really enjoyed my company and didn't seem to care if he got into my pants seemed so confidant for a 24yo guy. There was never anything desperate about his attention. He told me later that he knew he was right for me and thought it was worth the gamble that I'd see that too. Thank G*d he wasn't thinking about power.

                        Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                        4) First time you come to my place, if it gets that far, no makeup is allowed.
                        How do you find that this works? It sounds really creepy to me. I don't even wear makeup every day, and I love men that don't especially care for it, but this smacks of control freak. At 25, I don't know that I would have been confident enough to say, "F you, don't try to tell me what to do." At 50 it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.
                        50yo, 5'3"
                        SW-195
                        CW-125, part calorie counting, part transition to primal
                        GW- Goals are no longer weight-related

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post

                          4) First time you come to my place, if it gets that far, no makeup is allowed.
                          Um. Why no makeup? And how exactly does your conversation with the woman go saying that "No makeup is allowed". For me, if a guy starts laying down ultimatums early in the courtship, I'm looking to hit the eject button. And am I to assume from your statement that on the 2nd or 3rd visit, the woman is "allowed" to wear makeup in your home?

                          And to whoever made the comment that the best a Grok woman could hope for is to produce Grok sons so he could spread his seed. Spare me. Back then I'm pretty sure the goal was to have an offspring...Period. If one gender was more valued than the other, nature would have made it so. So if men were more valuable to the species, you would have say 70 percent men and 30 percent women. But alas, it's a 50/50 chance of having either gender.

                          Getting back to my original post...being too aggressive with the manager of an Old Navy that I may frequent again, probably not the right move. But yeah, I should've struck up conversation. Lesson learned.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post

                            My question to the gents: would you prefer a girl to look good, even if a little overdressed, or more casual and comfortable?

                            .
                            Met my wife at a mosh pit.....

                            She was quite evidently both strong and sexy. Couldn't resist myself.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              "Met my wife at a mosh pit" is the most romantic thing I have ever heard. Awesome story to people I bet.

                              Concerning the rule over no makeup....

                              You have to understand that it is usually pretty far into a relationship before they have ever come to my home. I live in the absolute middle of nowhere, even for VT, and the last 8 miles to my home aren't paved. It is off-grid power, on-site well, root cellars, animals, etc. I always prepare anyone by saying "coming to my house is like going on a camping trip, with farm animals around."

                              Next, most of the women I actually enjoy the company of (rather than just the looks of!) are often the "makeup if I have to" type. I don't plan it that way, but it's almost always the case by chance of who I am attracted to. My current girlfriend and I met at a Tough Mudder, where she got my attention by repeatedly running through the electrified part over and over (this let me know she was also crazy, so we'd have something in common right off the bat. Ahahaha) She once told me that she had worn makeup twice in the last year, outside of eyeliner, even though she is a professional. She said with all sassiness that it was so the other women would have a chance. Bingo. My type

                              So most of the time it's not much of an ultimatum....I say "If you are going to see the hunting lodge on steroids that is my home, you can't show up in a dress and decked out."

                              The entrance to my home has a moose rack over the top, whereupon you step on a deerskin rug. At present there are 5 rifles I am sighting in (don't touch!!) on the kitchen island... Wearing a mask of makeup would like a little out of place. I've never actually said "no makeup". It's just a way for us to BOTH compromise our "representatives" before they see where I live.

                              Side-note: A lot of this is necessary because I myself am a huge fake-out to most any woman I have met. They usually met me in public, where I am a well-dressed, clean-shaven physician with a tie on most every work day...and then I go home to the REAL me, where there are cooking knives made out of wood and fashioned animal bones

                              So it's a compromise really. Ahaha.
                              Last edited by TheyCallMeLazarus; 07-20-2013, 08:28 PM.
                              "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post
                                ...still laughing at this idea of asking someone for their number in 2013. Hint: getting a means of contact is NOT the reason to ask that question.

                                >>snip>>

                                Exchanging numbers is one thing that was different. And I assume this was somewhat closer to the Neolithic era? If someone asked me for my phone number... OMG, I am reachable like 234523417 ways that are totally locatable on the Internet. I would think they were either too stupid to use the Internet or were measuring how desperate I am. Either way, no.
                                believe it or not, not everybody uses social media. i'd much rather somebody ask for my number than infringe my privacy on fb without my consent. back when i was single, i did hand out my card if i wanted somebody to reach me without giving away personal info. it's direct -- not stupid, nor was it ever desperate on my end.

                                texting is common now too, without getting all up in the other person's twitter, etc. and last i checked you need a phone number for that.


                                Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post

                                Bottom line: Attraction is not a choice.
                                ZOMG!!! this! either somebody set my girlie bits aquiver, or... he didn't. i was never worried about any kind of power balance or the value of my golden vagina. the former came later and i never suffered from the latter. if i wanted to have sex with a guy i did. i wasn't ever holding out so he'd think i was speshul or "good". if he had that mindset? we would never have been a good match anyway.


                                So, while I'm all for "refusing to play the game," pursuing too aggressively is biologically hardwired in women's brains to be a turnoff. Whether we manage to f*ck up the entire process more often than not is a different topic.
                                both men and women can appear desperate for all sorts of reasons and some of that, i think, comes from not wanting to seem desperate. it's an awful and self-fulfilling prophecy. instead of worrying about power or control, just be forthright. "gee, i don't know if you're busy friday or saturday, but wanna grab coffee or a beer?" if he/she waffles, get out. you're done. stop trying to sell yourself. THAT WILL NEVER WORK AND WILL REEK OF A DESPERADO. if this person really revs your motor, something like, "well, here's my number if you find some free time," is ok, but that is THE END on your side.

                                Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post

                                And women do need to be reminded to keep their power because they give it up, like at eye contact.
                                how is making eye contact giving up power? it can be very powerful and VERY erotic.

                                I remember when I was selecting my boyfriend, women I knew went INSANE that I was actually weighing my options... "You can't DO that!" These women were sure that if you didn't just do exactly what he wanted when he wanted he would pick someone else... Which he will if he doesn't really want you. Win, win I would call that.
                                i had/have friends like that too. they are terrified of winding up alone and instead float from one shitty relationship and unsuitable partner to another and so on and so on. it's tiresome to watch and must be exhausting to live.

                                the whole "value of the egg" and grokking of relationships is hilarious to me.

                                we presume grok and grokette realized that penis + lady parts together makes a baby. sex felt good, just like now. we also just presume monogamy on the part of the females? she could be banging every grok in sight because it felt good. once there was a lil bump and baby coming, no doubt she attached herself to one of those partners who had status and could provide, but living tribally, she would not have been solely dependent on him anyway.

                                when women became more property and commodity was when they had to curtail their sexuality and wield virginity for power. it became their only measure of worth since their fathers/brothers were mostly trading them for land and/or goods.

                                TODAY, most sexually active women (with a brain) use b/c, so a baby is the least of their worries. maybe that's why they get all hung up on the social contrivances and worried about power. i always hated that shit. truly.

                                for years, i worked as a bartender and got hit on/asked out dozens of times in a week. after a short while it's just gross. i don't think it's appropriate to ever ask people out when they are working, especially if it's someplace you rarely go. their colleagues can see, so can other patrons.

                                if there is a cutie at the genius bar you see every week, maybe that's different, but it would still need to be super low-key, with obvious personal reciprocity.
                                As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                                – Ernest Hemingway

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