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  • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I think a lot of that comes from women. I don't actually think straight men care all the much.
    The images and messages are not created by women. They are a product of the fashion, beauty, fitness, and diet industries, all of which stand to lose staggering amounts of money if women were to accept themselves as they are and stop being unhappy with their bodies.

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    • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
      Many compromise their health in order to work in the industry. If your choice were to work a minimum wage job vs being wealthy but sick, which would you choose, if you were at their state of health knowledge?

      That qualifies both them and NFL players who lose their health after are forced to take steroids in order to work as "victims" of the system on some level, in my opinion.
      and that's why you're wrong. if you choose to do something, then you aren't a victim. if you think otherwise, you're broken. nobody said the system was fair or just or pleasant. but that is the way things are.

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      • Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
        and that's why you're wrong. if you choose to do something, then you aren't a victim. if you think otherwise, you're broken. nobody said the system was fair or just or pleasant. but that is the way things are.
        Exactly. That's why I chose to be neither an NFL player or a fashion model.
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
          and that's why you're wrong. if you choose to do something, then you aren't a victim. if you think otherwise, you're broken. nobody said the system was fair or just or pleasant. but that is the way things are.
          That's your opinion. My opinion is that the system shouldn't be permitted to require people to break their health in order to find work. Besides, it's socially acceptable to live on cocaine, liquor, and cigarettes, as long as you are thin.

          It's kind of moot, though. The level of knowledge and autonomy you have reached is not something that a 13 year old girl starting in modeling is going to have access to.

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          • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            Exactly. That's why I chose to be neither an NFL player or a fashion model.
            oh.. is THAT why? haha...

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            • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post



              You are passing judgment right here in this paragraph. It bothers you on some level that women don't want to be that thin, that we won't agree that it approaches perfection. And we are surrounded and bombarded by media messages that we should be thin, few of them created by women.

              Stop blaming women. We are not the fashion industry. We are not required to agree with you that "thin legs are beautiful" "Curvy is the new morbidly obese"... or whatever it is you want us to be thinking. You are feeding the issue yourself.
              Once again you managed to completely misunderstand what I wrote. Read the line you quoted out loud a few times...if you don't understand it right away, keep trying. You will get there.

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              • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                That's your opinion. My opinion is that the system shouldn't be permitted to require people to break their health in order to find work. Besides, it's socially acceptable to live on cocaine, liquor, and cigarettes, as long as you are thin.

                It's kind of moot, though. The level of knowledge and autonomy you have reached is not something that a 13 year old girl starting in modeling is going to have access to.
                so what about people who work blue collar jobs for 10-12 hours a day or subject themselves to dangerous job conditions or hazardous chemicals in order to feed their families? what about law enforcement officers or fire fighters? are they victims too? because in one way or another, there are a ton of professions out there that require you to break your health.

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                • Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                  oh.. is THAT why? haha...
                  Sure, that's one of the reasons.
                  The Champagne of Beards

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                  • Not victims. Volunteers. Regardless, my empathy extends to them, and it is tragic that someone has to make that decision. I've known a few anorexics. It's not great.

                    M.

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                    • Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                      perhaps if our culture wasn't destroyed to the point of kids actually getting off of their asses and doing shit the way nature intended, then adolescent girls wouldn't have to count calories. i can honestly think of only a handful of chubby or fat girls in my entire school existence. and i'm not talking about way back in the day here, i'm only 34. buy everyone played sports from the time they were able to walk. youth soccer, lacrosse, football, field hockey, basketball, etc from their youth, all the way up through high school. most of my girl-friends and girlfriends, could out-eat half of my guy friends, and still were some of the hottest girls in the school. and they certainly weren't counting calories. unless it was on a dare to see how much they could eat in a day. but they did shit. every day there was always a practice or a game. they played a sport during every season. they jogged and biked and hiked and swam and walked their dogs. a teenager should be so tired from school, exercise/sports, and their part time job, that they shouldn't even have time to count calories.
                      When I was a kid, there were no video games or computers and moms didn't shuffle kids off to various sports practices. We slid down grassy hills on cardboard boxes, hunted polliwogs and frogs in the creek, explored sewers under the street through storm drains, played on the monkey bars at the nearest school, threw balls and sticks for our dogs, climbed trees, played hopscotch and jacks, handball, jump rope, etc.

                      PE classes were for competition sports and they were pure torture for me.

                      How I wish it would have been different back then. If money hadn't been an object and our PE classes had focused on lifestyle sports like kayaking, rock climbing, hiking, cycling, strength training or other things that you do solo and compete only against yourself I may have had a completely different experience. Perhaps I would not have thought dieting would lead me to be accepted by others (you know, since competitive sports led to the exact opposite.)
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • They are a product of the fashion, beauty, fitness, and diet industries
                        The fashion and beauty industry are run by women and gay men. And *honestly* if women were happy with their bodies, I bet the fashion industry would sell even more clothes and the beauty industry would thrive. When you feel good about yourself, you enjoy investing in clothes and looking good. Women who have "given up" don't put on make up and wear cute ($) clothes.

                        I really have a hard time blaming "men" for my own struggles with my body image. Mostly the meanest people have been women.

                        http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                        Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                        • Sbhikes, PE was torture for me too. I was scrawny and uncoordinated, no one ever picked me for their team. I hated wearing the required PE shorts because I was often teased about my skinny legs. I wish I could have learned something useful in PE class, instead everything was geared toward competitive team sports. It wasn't until a year ago at the ripe old age of 52 that I learned how to do a chin-up and mastered push-ups. When I went to school you either could do them or you couldn't; no one taught you how to do them.
                          Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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                          • Well I'm sure gonna go to my mom's house and give her a huge hug and kiss and thank her for always telling me I was beautiful no matter what I thought of myself... THANKS MOM!!
                            Breathe. Move forward.

                            I just eat what I want...

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                            • @magnolia

                              I agree...with the risk of sounding outrageous I'lI say women "struggle" more to impress other women rather than getting the attention of men...whether this is conscious or not.

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                              • Women struggle to match the image of beauty that they carry in their head. This image is created at around 12 years old with help from the media, our mean-spirited middle school peers, and our family. Into middle age, many women hate themselves for not living up to that image in their head, and damage themselves trying. I feel like I was lucky. I am 5'7" and my family was full of big people that loved their food. I realized at an early age that I would not have a model figure no matter what I tried. Many of my friends who were petite in their 20's have a much harder time coping with their middle aged bodies than I.
                                As God is my witness, I'll never be hungry again.

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