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  • Originally posted by Quies View Post
    models showing a little bone are considered to be promoting eating disorders
    In relation to this point only, in mainstream media it is very rare to see models (and lots of actresses as well) who are not very thin, and unattainable-ly thin for many/most women and girls. You see some plus sized models, but it is rare. And "plus" sized models rarely actually fit into plus sizes themselves, Kate Upton is considered but some to be "plus" and she has caused an uproar among people saying she is too fat to model. (The casting director for Victoria Secret Fashion show claimed they would never hire her because she is too be and looks trashy.) So the problem with very thin models is that young girls can get the sense that the ONLY way to be attractive is to be very thin, because that's all (or the vast majority of what) they see. I think if there was a greater diversity of bodies, used in modeling, people wouldn't be as upset when one model "shows some bone."
    Last edited by ELizabeth826; 06-27-2013, 08:02 PM. Reason: Typos galore, thanks smart phone.
    No disease that can be treated by diet should be treated with any other means.
    -Maimonodies

    The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea.

    Babes with BBQ

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    • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
      @eKatherine
      "You are upset we won't compliment women we think look extremely unhealthy, whose body fat may be in the single digits."

      Absolutely not. I am suggesting that people grow the hell up, both men and women....I can tell you as a man, we have our own "societal ideal" that we are expected to live up to. We are supposed to be rich providers, to own nice cars, dress up, act like James Bond on a date and be hypermasculine the rest of the time. We are supposed to be physically imposing, have a full head of hair, speak directly, and not be too sensitive.

      And if you, as a man, listen to THAT voice, you are a juvenile. If you let that voice get to you, you need to do some actual growing up and become a man. It is okay for you to be bohemian or sensitive or write French poetry or have toothpick arms or be bald... It's part of being a man. A real man doesn't judge himself by other men. He judges himself by the man he used to be, and wakes up every day trying to be better than he was the day before. That is part of maturing, to tell that voice to go fist itself

      What I am suggesting, and always applaud, is for women to do that same. Yes, some men are much richer and fitter and drive faster cars than me. That's okay. Tip my hat. Well done man, but it ain't my concern. I compete with me, not you. I am suggesting that women have the same standard applied to them....a man is considered a juvenile to me if he still listens to that artificial, materialistic voice that society tells him he needs to be. He acts wealthy when he's not. He wears TapOut shirts 3 sizes too small. He is an infant inside. A boy in a man's muscles.

      What I am suggesting is not at all that women should worship that voice from society. They should tell it to go to hell, give credit where it is legitimately due, just as men should do. I'm not suggesting women should conform. I am suggesting they should stop listening, like I have for the stupid BS I'm told I should be. BIG difference.
      Great post, Lazarus. I never cared much about other people's fat/thinness. Since reading these forums, I've practically become pro-fat if only because the nasty, vocal anti-fat folks are such utter assholes. I wouldn't want to be associated with them in any way, shape, or form.
      "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

      B*tch-lite

      Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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      • I just looked up Kate Upton. She's a good-looking woman, but if that's what they call plus-sized then . . .

        *leaves this world*
        http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

        Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

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        • Originally posted by Quies View Post
          I didn't say that someone comes to their defense every time but I see it happen reasonably often whereas I have never seen it happen for someone who is skinny. I see laws against weight discrimination popping up, talk of food deserts, obesity as a disease... While models showing a little bone are considered to be promoting eating disorders. "Thin-shaming" is considered a moral imperative, on the idea that people who are thin don't know it's universally considered disgusting and would simply choose differently if they were harassed enough.

          I frequently see people bragging about being curvy rather than thin and had never heard of a thigh gap until today.

          Different experiences, different perspectives.
          The unfortunate fact is that the bony models are not only naturally unusually thin women, but they are generally forced by the industry to lose 10 or more pounds in order to get work. Those women live on salad, cigarettes, and cocaine in order to be that thin and get work. Almost all of them have eating disorders from being in the industry. They are victims.

          I commiserate that you have difficulty putting on weight to reach a healthy target, just as I commiserate with people who are unable to reduce to such a target. But when talk of weight discrimination and laws protecting obese people comes up, they are roundly shouted down by moralizing fat shamers.

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          • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
            Pic or it did not happen
            Sorry, somethings are just too fabulous to share with the world.

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            • +1 @quies, laz, derp

              The "genetic lottery" comment was spot on. You'd be surpirsed, some model-looking girls eat probably more than a few orthorexic people around here (including me back in the days) and they stay thin. It's luck and there's nothing you can do about it. Now, there's no need to call them all "anorexic", "unhealthy" and "unattractive". For one, they are not. Certainly not all of them. Secod, a LOT of men find thin girls extremely attractive, and I'm one of them. BUT it does not mean that I will look down to every women that does not fit that "standard". I'm not that shallow, and there's more to "attraction" than gaps and bones. True Story.

              As men, we are conditioned since we're young that other than being rich and successful, there's one more thing you have to have: be TALL. Guess what, there is literally nothing you can do about that. I'm a small dude, and it used to bother me when I was a teenager...until I realized that it does. not. matter.

              There are no "standards" that you have to live up to. If you think you do, than it will bother you. You will never come at peace with yourself and the way you look with judgemental remarks ("thin legs are UGLY"..."Curvy is the new Thin"...) you are just feeding the issue.

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              • I think women are just nasty to each other that sucks. I've never "hated" thin women, though personally, it's not the look I'd prefer for myself. I think naturally thin women do have their own type of beauty and can pull off different styles of clothes etc. I don't, however, think they are some "gold standard". And I don't think it is worth risking your health to look like one of them, and it shows when people are "starving" to get that look. Naturally thin women look healthy at that weight. Unnatural just don't.

                I also don't think it is worth it for thin women to go get say, breast implants. I imagine for them, that is the pressure- to get boobs.

                I do wish, for the good of young women without that natural thin body that there was some reduction in the pressure to be thin. God, you hear it from mom, the media, friends..... I just remember my mom pointing out any woman with some curve or heft and making snide comments about the "outfits" they "can't pull off". And she'd have a comment about those crossfit women not belonging in short shorts with those thighs.

                You can find a man that loves just about anything lol. That's what makes them awesome. But women.... just so stuck on some stupid need to hate themselves. It would be nice if we could celebrate and appreciate the beauty of all body types that are healthy instead of just nitpicking dumb shit.

                http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                  The unfortunate fact is that the bony models are not only naturally unusually thin women, but they are generally forced by the industry to lose 10 or more pounds in order to get work. Those women live on salad, cigarettes, and cocaine in order to be that thin and get work. Almost all of them have eating disorders from being in the industry. They are victims.
                  you were right. until the "victims" nonsense. they are no more victims than nfl players are victims because they use steroids. this is what the industry is. period. nobody makes them become a model. if that is what they choose, then that is how they have to live. this "victim" about everything is what is destroying our country. if you don't want to live off of salads and chronic cardio, then don't be a model.

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                  • Originally posted by naiadknight View Post
                    Hold the phone. You're supposed to be skinny to wear skinny jeans? Been breaking that rule for a while now. Straight leg jeans fit me like skinnies and I like the way I look in 'em. Fuck you, society, I wear what I want.
                    Tight straight leg jeans =/= skinny jeans. You're fine. Probably. Only photos will tell us for sure.
                    The Champagne of Beards

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                    • The problem I have with those thigh gap inspirational pictures is not that the women are so thin, it's that it's a way to encourage women to learn how to be anorexic. I attempted to be as anorexic as I could when I was a 16-year-old back in ancient history before the personal computer. It messed me up for the rest of my life.

                      If I had been encouraged in more positive ways, perhaps if I had had PE classes that weren't Lord of the Rings disasters and that taught fitness Primal-style, I might have had a different experience in the years that followed. Instead, I was left to fend for myself, to count calories obsessively over and over in my head all day long, counting, recounting, trying to numb myself from the hunger and discontent. A horrible thing to do to try to be accepted.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        The problem I have with those thigh gap inspirational pictures is not that the women are so thin, it's that it's a way to encourage women to learn how to be anorexic. I attempted to be as anorexic as I could when I was a 16-year-old back in ancient history before the personal computer. It messed me up for the rest of my life.

                        If I had been encouraged in more positive ways, perhaps if I had had PE classes that weren't Lord of the Rings disasters and that taught fitness Primal-style, I might have had a different experience in the years that followed. Instead, I was left to fend for myself, to count calories obsessively over and over in my head all day long, counting, recounting, trying to numb myself from the hunger and discontent. A horrible thing to do to try to be accepted.
                        perhaps if our culture wasn't destroyed to the point of kids actually getting off of their asses and doing shit the way nature intended, then adolescent girls wouldn't have to count calories. i can honestly think of only a handful of chubby or fat girls in my entire school existence. and i'm not talking about way back in the day here, i'm only 34. buy everyone played sports from the time they were able to walk. youth soccer, lacrosse, football, field hockey, basketball, etc from their youth, all the way up through high school. most of my girl-friends and girlfriends, could out-eat half of my guy friends, and still were some of the hottest girls in the school. and they certainly weren't counting calories. unless it was on a dare to see how much they could eat in a day. but they did shit. every day there was always a practice or a game. they played a sport during every season. they jogged and biked and hiked and swam and walked their dogs. a teenager should be so tired from school, exercise/sports, and their part time job, that they shouldn't even have time to count calories.

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                        • Originally posted by sauerKraut View Post
                          +1 @quies, laz, derp

                          The "genetic lottery" comment was spot on. You'd be surpirsed, some model-looking girls eat probably more than a few orthorexic people around here (including me back in the days) and they stay thin. It's luck and there's nothing you can do about it. Now, there's no need to call them all "anorexic", "unhealthy" and "unattractive". For one, they are not. Certainly not all of them. Secod, a LOT of men find thin girls extremely attractive, and I'm one of them. BUT it does not mean that I will look down to every women that does not fit that "standard". I'm not that shallow, and there's more to "attraction" than gaps and bones. True Story.
                          The term "genetic lottery" is clearly misplaced. The only thing such women have "won" is that they fit a cultural stereotype created by the fashion industry. They have no more intrinsic beauty than a woman of average size or weight. They deserve no special respect for being the size they are. Having read about models and their diets, hardly any of them eat robust, healthy diets. Eating disorders are the norm, not the exception.

                          That doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of women at that weight really are anorexic or unhealthy because of serious illness. People do get concerned when seeing a woman who is so emaciated she can't possibly buy clothing to fit. Eating disorders are so common nowadays it's reasonable they would think that might be a problem. Women who are very thin at their natural weight deserve no credit for being the way their bodies are programmed to be, any more than large women would deserve compliments for being the size they are.

                          As men, we are conditioned since we're young that other than being rich and successful, there's one more thing you have to have: be TALL. Guess what, there is literally nothing you can do about that. I'm a small dude, and it used to bother me when I was a teenager...until I realized that it does. not. matter.
                          See, I thought you were a woman, since you chose to use some woman's photo as your avatar. My boyfriend is short, but it doesn't bother him. It has never bothered him.

                          There are no "standards" that you have to live up to. If you think you do, than it will bother you. You will never come at peace with yourself and the way you look with judgemental remarks ("thin legs are UGLY"..."Curvy is the new Thin"...) you are just feeding the issue.
                          You are passing judgment right here in this paragraph. It bothers you on some level that women don't want to be that thin, that we won't agree that it approaches perfection. And we are surrounded and bombarded by media messages that we should be thin, few of them created by women.

                          Stop blaming women. We are not the fashion industry. We are not required to agree with you that "thin legs are beautiful" "Curvy is the new morbidly obese"... or whatever it is you want us to be thinking. You are feeding the issue yourself.

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                          • Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                            you were right. until the "victims" nonsense. they are no more victims than nfl players are victims because they use steroids. this is what the industry is. period. nobody makes them become a model. if that is what they choose, then that is how they have to live. this "victim" about everything is what is destroying our country. if you don't want to live off of salads and chronic cardio, then don't be a model.
                            Many compromise their health in order to work in the industry. If your choice were to work a minimum wage job vs being wealthy but sick, which would you choose, if you were at their state of health knowledge?

                            That qualifies both them and NFL players who lose their health after are forced to take steroids in order to work as "victims" of the system on some level, in my opinion.

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                            • And we are surrounded and bombarded by media messages that we should be thin, few of them created by women.
                              I think a lot of that comes from women. I don't actually think straight men care all the much.

                              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                              • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                                The problem I have with those thigh gap inspirational pictures is not that the women are so thin, it's that it's a way to encourage women to learn how to be anorexic. I attempted to be as anorexic as I could when I was a 16-year-old back in ancient history before the personal computer. It messed me up for the rest of my life.

                                If I had been encouraged in more positive ways, perhaps if I had had PE classes that weren't Lord of the Rings disasters and that taught fitness Primal-style, I might have had a different experience in the years that followed. Instead, I was left to fend for myself, to count calories obsessively over and over in my head all day long, counting, recounting, trying to numb myself from the hunger and discontent. A horrible thing to do to try to be accepted.
                                Because we are supposed to want to be that thin, there are many pro-ana sites that have essentially become mainstream. Nobody blinks twice when a fitness blog purporting to show photos of crossfit women of all sizes and shapes shows almost exclusively photos of women size 0-2 with <10% body fat.

                                Guys get all bent out of shape when they see one photo of a size 14 woman wearing a bathing suit and enjoying herself at the beach. Remember that one?
                                Last edited by eKatherine; 06-28-2013, 08:17 AM.

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