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Want to go Primal? Drop the wife or husband (Rule #11)

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  • #61
    I think sexuality is a spectrum. Some people are 100% straight, others 100% gay but most people are somewhere in between. The same can be said about monogamy. Some are 100% 'til death do us part, some are 100% all about the next hook up, but most are somewhere in between.

    For me, the comfortable place on the spectrum is serial monogamy. No screwing around behind someone's back but also not sticking it out through thick and thin if someone is being a jerk or we are just not feeling the compatibility anymore.

    So my relationships seem to last anywhere from 6 months to a few years. This works for me.
    If I knew anyone interested in a polyamorous type of relationship, I would definitely be open to exploring that but most guys I meet want to make sure I am "all theirs" and I am, just not forever.

    I think the historical/anthropological angle is interesting but our ways of interacting need to evolve to fit our new environment. Grok didn't have the STDs we have. That is a really good argument for some form of monogamy right there. Also, a lot more of modern sexual interactions have nothing to do with reproduction given birth control and longer life expectancy post menopause.

    The argument that bugs people about finding something to fight about in a relationship because you really want to move on to someone else, sorry to say this, but I gotta agree with the OP, there is a lot of merit in that one, IMO. People manufacture the stupidest things to fight about. I find that if I don't feel trapped, I know I can leave anytime I want, I am far less likely to engage in such petty squabbles in a relationship.

    Although several have tried over the years, nobody is ever getting me anywhere near an alter thankyouverymuch.

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    • #62
      Different strokes for different folks.

      I think if you cheat on your spouse or boyfriend, the relationship is working for you to some degree or you would just end it. So whether that woman you were with needs financial support, emotional support, a daddy for her kids or whatever, she's staying for a good reason.

      http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
      Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Davidil View Post
        That's great, good for you. I honestly think most couples are not happy. Half of the last 10 women I've been with were cheating on thier husband or boyfriend with me.
        Yep. No offense to someone who genuinely does have a blissfully happy relationship or to Great aunt Betty and Uncle Bob who were married for seventy three years, yada yada.

        That said...

        In real life, I have seen an awful lot of unhappily married people. Some stick it out and make it work "for the kids" or because they don't have any financially viable alternative, or because of family pressures or whatever. Many fight and bicker and make each other miserable til death do they part or until one or the other gives in and cheats.

        And then there are a lot of people who just resign themselves to it and go on in some degree of quiet desperation. Not happy but not figuring there is anything better.

        I really do agree that, for those people who are not naturally "meant" to be monogamous, it is a fundamentally unnatural mold that we try to force ourselves to fit into. It doesn't work and makes everyone unhappy in the meantime.

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        • #64
          I would not call it *bliss* lol.

          On the other hand, I know a lot of supremely unhappy single people. I will say, and this might be mean, most have a level of undesirability and a lot of bitterness. A lot of the single guys I know don't have a roster of 76 women to go call and get laid. A lot of the single women I know want to be in relationship and have not had one in years.

          Mostly you need to be true to yourself and as long as you don't lead women along promising a relationship/marriage/whatnot to get laid, by all means, be a swinging single and have fun with it.

          http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
          Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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          • #65
            You know how even when we're in a relationship we keep looking at members of the other sex?
            Uhm, no... never happened to me.
            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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            • #66
              I try and solicit marital advice from happily married, loyal people that I know who are older and have been married many years.

              Never met one though- adviceless.
              "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

              Jack london, "Before Adam"

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                I try and solicit marital advice from happily married, loyal people that I know who are older and have been married many years.

                Never met one though- adviceless.
                Both hilarious and very sad.

                Guys, don't get me wrong, I used to a really romantic guy when I was young.... but then reality hits you in face. I truly wish I was wrong.... too bad I'm not.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                  I would not call it *bliss* lol.

                  On the other hand, I know a lot of supremely unhappy single people. I will say, and this might be mean, most have a level of undesirability and a lot of bitterness. A lot of the single guys I know don't have a roster of 76 women to go call and get laid. A lot of the single women I know want to be in relationship and have not had one in years.

                  Mostly you need to be true to yourself and as long as you don't lead women along promising a relationship/marriage/whatnot to get laid, by all means, be a swinging single and have fun with it.
                  Not disagreeing with most of this but there are a couple of outdated stereotypes in here.

                  First of all, if a woman is single it is because she is undesirable and/or bitter. Really? In olden days the "Old Maid" was a subject of ridicule and/or pity. In today's world, a financially independent woman can choose her lifestyle. Some men find it intimidating, others find it kinda hot.

                  Second, that women want relationships but it is men who just want to hook up. Maybe I'm a mutant but there have been guys trying to put a ring on my finger since I was 18 and I've turned them all down. And don't regret it a bit.

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                  • #69
                    I think that the worst responsible offender is the "fantasy" that you (davidlil) are talking about; you can be in a monogamous relationship without having all of these admittedly ridiculous bullshit ideas about fidelity and shit.

                    My wife for example- we had a big bbq with awesome competitions a few weekends ago, and there was a girl there that we had never met; everyone we know has been talking since then about how hot she is, and my brother tried kickin game with her and failed flat- she mentioned in the course of that conversation that she thought my wife was hot.

                    So I told my wife, who seemed suspiciously and encouragingly flattered. Yesterday, she was trying on a new outfit and said that she looked like Peg Bundy. So, I said "Maybe that's why (bbq girl) thought you were hot- I bet a lot of people had a thing for Peggy."

                    She then proceeded to be sad and angry, muttering something stupid like, "Why would you think about that?"

                    I tried not to laugh in her face. What kinda fuckin question is that?!
                    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                    Jack london, "Before Adam"

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                    • #70
                      As Robb Wolf would say, this is not a historical reenactment.

                      Even if you are correct that humans evolved this way, that alone does not make it a compelling reason to adopt that behavior. We eat this way because evolution suggests it is healthier than eating grains, and scientific and anecdotal evidence confirms that. If the science and observations were not there, neither would MDA.

                      So please, shelve the "cavemen did this (probably) so you should too" arguments, because they don't hold any water.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Davidil View Post
                        Both hilarious and very sad.

                        Guys, don't get me wrong, I used to a really romantic guy when I was young.... but then reality hits you in face. I truly wish I was wrong.... too bad I'm not.
                        You are DavidBrennan and I claim my five pounds.
                        I like badgers, books and booze, more or less in that order.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                          I try and solicit marital advice from happily married, loyal people that I know who are older and have been married many years.

                          Never met one though- adviceless.
                          I have the opposite problem. I may well never marry since I want nothing less than my parents have. 35 years and still in love. Happily married and loyal does happen, but it didn't happen by accident. They have put the work in to earn their happiness.

                          As for admiring other people outside of my SO- finding someone attractive, and even having the occasional dirty thought about someone else, doesn't automatically mean that I want his P in my V. It just means that I'm capable of appreciating beauty and of keeping my wayward thoughts as . . . thoughts. It's the same as admiring a pretty, but undatable, person as a single person.
                          http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

                          Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

                          And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

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                          • #73
                            my b/f and i have been together almost 11 years. we love each other's company, laugh and the sex remains great. we respect each other and don't fight over petty shit.

                            we don't live together. perfect for us both.
                            As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                            Ernest Hemingway

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                            • #74
                              You are DavidBrennan and I claim my five pounds.
                              second! Brilliant!

                              Haha, gettin the jump on the ooool banhammer
                              "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                              Jack london, "Before Adam"

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                              • #75
                                Comments to Davidil's post in red. About the only thing true in that post is that men have an instinct to father children with many women (which Davidil doesn't even say directly), but there is also a strong instinct to couple with a woman and make sure the children you have survive. It is the old quantity versus quality balance. And that is how love developed, a chemical reaction meant to make sure that couples would stay together and raise their offspring - in monogamy.



                                There is a lot of research saying that we're non monogamous, that we're not designed to stay in long term relationships with just one partner.

                                In the small tribes that Gork used to live in, everyone were sharing everything - the food, the security and.... sexual partners.

                                No. The victors got the women, the rest were either dead or lived without women. As for sharing possessions, there is no proof that would have gone on everywhere, and there is a reason it stopped where it did go on. Such societies never see any progress, since people have no reason to increase their workload if they have to share the results with every leech in the society. Just look at the few people still living like Stone Age tribes today, which are the darlings of the "social anthropology" leftists, praised as "harmonious". Those tribes share their possessions, yes. And that is exactly why they are still stuck in the Stone Age, living short lives of hard labor, with no written language, no sense of who they are and where they are going, fearing spirits all around them as the cause of everything that happens, subjecting men, women and children to superstitious rules.... With permanent poverty comes permanent ignorance, as there is no science. It is a hard, ignorant life.

                                That made sense because when everybody is sharing everything everyone is safer. Not at all, it leads to poverty and starvation. Just look at the early settlers in the northeastern USA, who starved because they started out sharing all the tools and all the food. The journals from that time showed that people stopped working because the laziest did practically nothing, so others didn't want to work either. When the land was finally divided between the families, output quickly tripled. No woman or child is dependent on ONE man. When everybody is sleeping with everybody - nobody knows who fathered who so the males protect all the children.

                                Bogus theory. Why would men protect children that are not theirs? That goes against everything we know about the species. People protect their own children, and so it was in the Stone Age too.

                                Monogamy was basically "invented" by the elite to organize society so private property could be accumulated and taxed, for social classes to be created, for wealth to be passed on from one generation to the next. Monogamy is what brought us here, to the where our civilization is today, but it is no longer necessary.

                                Typical Marxist crap taught in "sociology" classes and the like. As if some evil plotters in the Stone Age would invent monogamy to start social classes. When some men had harems and others had no women, THAT was the BIGGEST "class" division of all times. We see from DNA that this is how things were at one point in the Stone Age - just a few men per tribe spreading their genes. (The fight over women is why men have bigger risktaking behavior, by the way. The risktakers would try new things, explore better hunting grounds, new methods, and dare to fight over land and women. They would either die or succeed, and when succeeding they would spread their behavior genes more than the non-risktakers.) Men have the instinct to spread their genes through many partners. However, they also have the instinct to make sure their offspring survives, which works in favor of monogamy, especially in cold and unforgiving northern climates where you can't just "spray and pray". A man had to have just a few children instead and focus on them together with his wife, achieving a division of labor between the two. With monogamy each man could have children instead of just a few harem owners. This drastically increased the number of children, and drastically increased their chances of survival as each child got more attention, training, food and protection from its parents than the children in a harem. This made sure the labor of all men, not just a few, would be invested in the upbringing of children, and that gave society a great boost forward. There is a reason religions and laws across the world, in separately evolving societies, have favored monogamous marriage. When the structure with monogamous marriages breaks down, it has strong negative consequences for the children. Children born out of wedlock have lower grades, commit more crime and lead unhealthier lives.
                                Last edited by Erik W; 06-19-2013, 04:31 PM.

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