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Is Gun ownership Primal?

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  • #16
    No doubt Grok was well armed (for his time) as protection from tribal threats as well as for hunting and protection from animals that might be a danger when not actively engaged in hunting. I feel that the right to protect oneself and ones family from any threat is a God-given right as well is spelled out in the laws of all 50 States. "Castle-Doctrine", "Stand-Your-Ground" laws, etc.

    Sadley, just as conventional wisdom and big Agra have perverted the views and truths of proper diet and nutrition so has the media and politically-expediant agendas on gun rights and even one's right to defend one's family and self perverted and obfuscated the very essence of this basic human right that if Grok have had in his day we would have not survived evolution.

    Ultimately your decision of course is your own but our society will likely not be as "safe" as it is now, forever. Perhaps more pertinant for our times is the fact that a right not exercised is a right taken away.

    Just my thoughts.

    PaleoDog

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    • #17
      Sorry for my grammar-logic errors in my last post here. This is a topic close to my heart and should have proofed it first. I too have a quiver full of "arrows" and do my best to let others know that they too can do the same if they want to.

      PaleoDog

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      • #18
        No brainer. Point taken though that many may not have thought about this before.
        Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-10-2013, 11:16 PM.

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        • #19
          One more thought is that Hollywood has done so much to distort the essence of self defense and what it truly means to be responsibly armed that anyone who grew up watching the litany of trash and lies in the form of "entertainment" that these deviants churns is hard-pressed to form a rational opinion without a lot of research on their own.

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          • #20
            Heh, no arguments here. Life-long Heinlein fan. Not that I have any firearms at the moment. Eventually I'd like to find somewhere I can at least hunt rabbits and pigeons with an air rifle. I hear squirrels are also pretty tasty. At some point in the future, I wouldn't mind getting back into clay-shooting or wildfowling. In the meantime I have an accumulation of various sharp blades as useful tools.
            Me, My Father and The Alzheimer's - http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread84213.html

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            • #21
              Poison darts and a penis sheath are maybe closer to primal.
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by PRO199 View Post
                Sorry, not anti-gun too, I have a stuffed gun locker to prove it. Hmm, wonder if I could get a spear in there?
                I have a Nagant - it's basically a spear that can shoot.

                M.

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                • #23
                  i'm a big hunter and shooter. pro-gun all the way. own lots of them. yadda yadda...

                  but to answer ken's question specifically (and sound like all the "is this primal" loonies on this site) guns are not primal. they aren't paleolithic creations at all. grok didn't have a gun, etc. food for thought. lol...

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                  • #24
                    But Grok always had the latest and greatest weapons of his time, whether it be a simple wood spear, spear with flint spearhead, a flint knife, maybe a sling sometimes?

                    I've got 2 safes full of guns, and yeah, I believe they are primal. Self defense and hunting are primal necessities.

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                    • #25
                      I can't imagine living in a place where I felt I needed a gun for protection. If I did, I think I would move. There's a lot of statistics-counterstatistics" that make it uncertain whether owning a gun for protection even makes you safer at all. Owning a gun makes you more likely to get shot, and more guns in a community usually means more suicides and more accidental deaths. A lot depends on how you interpret data, but I think in this day and age there are better mechanisms for protection.

                      As for hunting, while not strictly necessary for most of us, I see nothing wrong with it. I come from a community where fishing, hunting, snaring is the norm. Are these activities good for us? Maybe. There's the risk of hunting accidents, and hunting is probably not even that economically friendly, considering time and supplies. It might be better for your health to walk to the store.

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                      • #26
                        Hunting around here in much of MD and VA could be considered ecologically friendly. In a sense. Not that I am arguing with you prufock. The problem in this region at this time is that the deer lack predators. So, after some time their population hits critical mass and we run into a problem with them having enough to eat. Much of the woodland around here was, at one point during a hunting ban, stripped bare, with deer chancing brambles and treebark. My father commented years back remembering hunters (then poachers, because the hunt was illegal) finding cannibalized deer carcasses, though I'm not sure how much truth there is in that. So we prey on them around here in an effort to keep them from reaching critical mass. Seeing deer in areas where hunting is still illegal reveals some awfully sickly looking ones.

                        That said, I have never hunted. I'm not competent enough to dress the animal, and the hell if I'm going to kill a food animal I'm not going to eat.

                        M.

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                        • #27
                          The lack of wolves, bears, and cougars means prey must be hunted to keep deer populations healthy.

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                          • #28
                            Yes, but only spear and stone axe's...
                            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                            - Schopenhauer

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by prufock View Post
                              I can't imagine living in a place where I felt I needed a gun for protection. If I did, I think I would move.
                              I'm glad that you have a good enough financial situation/certainty that you can find a job that you can just uproot if you don't feel same. Unfortunately, not all of us are in the position where we can just move.

                              There's a lot of statistics-counterstatistics" that make it uncertain whether owning a gun for protection even makes you safer at all. Owning a gun makes you more likely to get shot, and more guns in a community usually means more suicides and more accidental deaths. A lot depends on how you interpret data, but I think in this day and age there are better mechanisms for protection.
                              Owning a gun makes you more likely to get shot? I wouldn't discount it. Then again, owning a car makes you more likely to get into a car accident, and I wouldn't consider that a reasonable argument against car ownership. As for suicides - it's been my experience that when someone wants to kill themselves, they'll do it regardless of the presence of a gun. The suicide rate in Japan is one of the highest in the world, despite the lack of firearms.

                              I'm inferring from the tone of your post that you've never been in a defensive situation where you needed a gun (correct me if I'm wrong). If so, good. I sincerely hope that you never are in one. Let me tell you, though - unless you can guarantee that you'll be bigger, stronger and a better fighter than someone who wishes you harm, unless you can guarantee that they won't be armed, unless you can guarantee that there'll only be one person...there's no self-defense substitute for a firearm. And you CAN'T guarantee any of that. It's the nature of the beast.

                              Originally posted by prufock View Post
                              As for hunting, while not strictly necessary for most of us, I see nothing wrong with it. I come from a community where fishing, hunting, snaring is the norm. Are these activities good for us? Maybe. There's the risk of hunting accidents, and hunting is probably not even that economically friendly, considering time and supplies. It might be better for your health to walk to the store.
                              Given how crappy most drivers are, especially regarding pedestrians and cyclists, I'd feel a hell of a lot safer stalking deer then I would walking or biking to the store.

                              And I don't know what supplies you're thinking of, but given the price of GF meat vs. a 30-06 + processing fee, I'd call it economically friendly.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by prufock View Post
                                I can't imagine living in a place where I felt I needed a gun for protection. If I did, I think I would move.
                                First, not everyone can afford to live where they want. And living in a nice community can actually make you a target instead of protecting you. Living behind a gated community or in a wealthier neighborhood is like waving a flag saying "Hey, we've got better stuff!" And I'm in a normal middle class neighborhood that's generally considered safe, but we had a break in next door several months ago. You just don't have a say in where crime happens.

                                Also, if you go outside the city, rural areas often have issues with snakes, coyotes, cougars, foxes and other animals that you're not necessarily hunting but shooting to protect yourself, your children or your livestock.

                                Originally posted by prufock View Post
                                There's a lot of statistics-counterstatistics" that make it uncertain whether owning a gun for protection even makes you safer at all.
                                And, as mentioned earlier, owning a car makes you more likely to die in a car accident. And owning a refrigerator makes you more likely to die from being crushed under one.

                                Originally posted by prufock View Post
                                Owning a gun makes you more likely to get shot, and more guns in a community usually means more suicides and more accidental deaths. A lot depends on how you interpret data, but I think in this day and age there are better mechanisms for protection.
                                Suicides are going to happen, and I don't know if the method is all that important. If a person wants to end it and doesn't have a gun, they'll just use pills or a knife or whatever they happen to have on hand.

                                I live in Nevada, and we have very loose gun laws. We have open carry without a permit for pretty much anyone that isn't a felon or the like. Concealed carry is by permit and, unlike some other states/counties, you can apply for a permit, take the test and actually get one.

                                So you would think we'd have a ton of murders. We don't. According to the CDC, murder is way down on the list of reasons people die.

                                Ranked from most common to least in my state, we've got heart disease, cancer, respiratory disease, stroke, accidents of all kinds (mostly poisoning and auto accidents), Alzheimer's, diabetes, flu (and pneumonia), kidney disease, suicide (all forms), Septicemia, liver disease/cirrhosis, hypertension, Parkinson's, and then we finally get to assault (all kinds) at #15.

                                Most people die because of the foods they eat, the drugs they take (both illegal and prescribed), not from firearms. Just heart disease and cancer alone make up half of all the deaths in my state, and we've got a whole lot of guns.

                                To put it another way, most of us are packing, but twice as many people die from accidental falls as die from gunshot wounds here.
                                Durp.

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