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  • Originally posted by kenn View Post
    that's not what he did at all
    Oh, really? Could have fooled me. The idea that women should be held responsible for rearing children and then should lose their careers for having done so hardly sounds like equal opportunity to me. But that's right, you don't support equal opportunity. Only for men.

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    • Originally posted by kenn View Post
      So basically you want communism and only support feminism and that the white man is the bane of the world
      You might want to learn what communism is before you spout nonsense about it. It is clear you enjoy your white male privilege and feel threatened that women might want to have equal access.

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      • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
        You might want to learn what communism is before you spout nonsense about it. It is clear you enjoy your white male privilege and feel threatened that women might want to have equal access.
        So basically this is your way of agreeing with my statement.

        What is your victim card #?
        Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
        Starting Weight: 294 pounds
        Current Weight: 235 pounds
        Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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        • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
          Oh, really? Could have fooled me. The idea that women should be held responsible for rearing children and then should lose their careers for having done so hardly sounds like equal opportunity to me. But that's right, you don't support equal opportunity. Only for men.
          Actually I said, " Perhaps it is unfair that the woman is expected to shoulder the load (as cori points out) but again, woman-up and tell your husband/whomever it is their turn to take 5 years out of their career to raise junior."

          I encourage women taking charge and letting their significant other know that if they are having children then they (women) are not automatically responsible for raising them/sacrificing their careers. Also, what about childless women/men? Is it fair for them to lose out so others can take time out of the workplace to raise children without penalty to advancement etc?

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          • Various research seems to be showing that more families are more 50-50 in terms of outside-home work/family-life work. So, there's some equity within households there.

            And, i know a lot of stay at home dads. there aren't as many as there are stay at home moms, but there are a lot of them (i would say more here in NZ than in the US in my experience -- but it could be that i'm just on the lookout for them).

            Also, there's a difference between "equal" and "equity." People get confused around the issue of "equal" vs "equity." Equal means that everyone, no matter their height, has the same box to look over the fence. The tall person doesn't need it, but takes the box anyway and stands on it. The medium sized person could use the box, even though s/he only needs to be lifted a few inches to see over the fence. A little person can barely see over the fence with the same sized box -- but that person shouldn't complain because it's "equal."

            The problem is that it isn't "equitable." If the first step to success is that each person can see over the fence (and then their success is dependent on what they do once they can see over the fence), then it makes sense that each person will be given an equitable share to see over the fence.

            The little person gets a big box; the medium person gets a little box; the tall person doesn't need a box, so they don't get a box. Everyone how has equal opportunity to see over the fence, but what created that equal opportunity was equity policy.

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            • The idea that women should be held responsible for rearing children and then should lose their careers for having done so hardly sounds like equal opportunity to me
              My sister in law is working for her career while my brother sacrifices his to raise the kids. Sounds like someone gave her a choice. She had 3 choices: keep working as is, reduce her hours, quit working. My brother had the same 3 choices. My sister in law makes more than he does despite having less education.

              Women have choices. Now in some cases, due to the economy, both parents must work OR single moms obviously must work. But that isn't about gender equality, it's about economics.

              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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              • I think we can look at a comparison with equity policy.

                In Denmark, for example, women and men both get maternal and paternal leave. Both leave their jobs, receive stipends (which are usually managed through their work environments) so that there's no loss in income/quality of life, and both return to their jobs. Child care and education is 100% provided for their children.

                Once they return, they are get their annual raises as if they had worked, and any promotions that they would have gotten should they have stayed.

                This is family-focused equity policy.

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                • UK women in their twenties now earn more than UK men in their twenties. As a result the birth rate is dropping because those women don't want to give up their careers. I don't blame them. Why don't women combine nurseries with workplaces?. It should be law that any workplace can accommodate children. Why not do this? Thats how we lived for thousands of years!

                  Women are now earning more than men in the growing communication-based economy that we find ourselves in. The agricultural and industrial eras played to male strengths, the communication era is the domain of the female. I am delighted to leave them to it and to go play golf, fish, learn to hunt, and develop woodsmanship skills that are badly paid but highly rewarding. Women are next to useless in outdoor pursuits - have you ever seen one try to use a slingshot? Ridiculous :-)

                  On the subject of online dating - I've seen some dating sites that advertise themselves by saying '1 in 4 of our members meet the right person'. If I was in a bar, and I knew I had a 1 in 4 chance of getting a beer, I'd go and find another bar.
                  Healthy is the new wealthy.

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                  • Denmark, for example, women and men both get maternal and paternal leave. Both leave their jobs, receive stipends (which are usually managed through their work environments) so that there's no loss in income/quality of life, and both return to their jobs. Child care and education is 100% provided for their children.

                    Once they return, they are get their annual raises as if they had worked, and any promotions that they would have gotten should they have stayed.

                    This is family-focused equity policy.
                    I don't think this will ever happen in the US and as a woman, I'd be pissed if someone took time off, came back and received promotions and raises (*beyond cost of living). That said, I don't think it is the role of government to tell business how to operate.

                    I work for a really small business and when my coworker had a baby, there was no one to do her work, no way to replace her at the same pay rate using a temp. So everyone had more work. Making regulations of child care at work would KILL small businesses.

                    For big businesses, heck yeah, they can get great talent by offering excellent maternity leave and onsite childcare; many companies do.

                    But I think it's unfair to mandate "family friendly" policy. Kids are a choice. Not a right.

                    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                    • I am the only person here who couldn't give a rat's a$$ about a career? My husband is the same way, neither one of really wants to work, we can think of plenty of things do with our time. I worked while he finished his degrees now I stay at home with our son. But honestly we would both be here if we could. We are not our "work".
                      Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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                      • Feminsim? when I hear that word I reach for my gun! The closes we comes to feminism here in my place is this:

                        "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                        - Schopenhauer

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                        • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                          "Gender equalism" is bogus. It assumes that discrimination and advantage are equally distributed. It's insisting that women must work to make sure men have at least equal advantage in all cases before any women can be permitted any equal opportunity.

                          It would be no different from insisting that minorities should work to make sure that white people are never discriminated against before those minorities can be permitted to have rights. Or to insist that poor people should volunteer their unpaid labor to help out rich people.

                          Merit pay is a straw man, just another excuse to find a reason to pay women less for doing the same work.
                          Why would these minorities be working for the majority before themselves? Nonsense. You never backed that statement with how such a situation could occur either.

                          Everyone can work for themselves, ala the Libertarian mindset.

                          As far as the government goes, it would behoove us all to accept gender equality. And as far as I know, women are equal are under law. What is the big deal? Average salary?

                          New PayScale Study Challenges Conventional Thinking On Why Women Make Less Than Men

                          Women get paid equally with men when they start out. The salary differences grow as the rank of the employee goes up. Men make better leaders on average, so why is this surprising?

                          I think where feminists go wrong is that they equate "having the right to do everything men do" with "having the ability to do everything men do". There are legitimate differences that show up between the sexes' abilities on average.
                          Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-11-2013, 01:03 AM.

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                          • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                            Just all the excuses you have manufactured to show that the existence of babies is entirely the fault of women, and thus women should sacrifice their livelihood to care for those brats that the father bears no responsibility for.
                            Child support does a pretty good job of making the dads responsible.

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                            • Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                              Ever heard of child support? That's plenty of responsibility for a kid.
                              L. O. L.

                              And no, I'm not really laughing.

                              Only a moron assumes that monetary input is "plenty of responsibility".
                              Kids kind of need more than that.
                              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                              • Originally posted by aliphian View Post
                                What the hell happened in here?
                                Feminism happened, it upset the natural balance of things, and this is the price mankind pays hehe. Chaos!

                                Yes, I still say mankind.

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