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  • Atlantean Agriculture?

    I had a sick day yesterday and stayed home and watched this documentary on You Tube about Atlantis:
    ATLANTIS the lost continent - part 1 - One of the best. - YouTube

    This got me thinking about what kind of diet Atlanteans ate. If it was a real place, it seems it was advanced beyond what we normally hear about the Paleolithic era. They did not live like Grok, at least not until it sank.

    Timeline
    Paleolithic Timeline | Paleo Diet History | Book List | Evolvify
    Comparing the 2 timelines, Altantis was in its height about 50,000 BC.

    This blogger says there was agriculture as far back as 100,000 years ago, including barley:
    Frontiers of Anthropology: Reassessment of Atlantean Agriculture

    Cro-Magnon man must have been Atlantean according to this blogger. He also says there is evidence that Grok had clothes:
    new illuminati: Atlantis and Cro-Magnon Man

    The world famous cave art, found mostly in the Pyrenees and Cantabrian Mountains in France and Spain is Cro-Magnon in origin. Sometimes they are in simulated bas-relief. The quality of perspective and proportion depicted in these paintings astounded the art world when discovered (noted artists believed them to be modern fakes). However, it was noticed that some of them had thin mineral coatings deposited over their surfaces, which allowed for dating of the paintings: some have been dated in excess of 30,000 years (Pfeiffer, 1969; Thorndike, 1977; Hadingham, 1979). This remarkable cave art appears to have begun with the Aurignacians, ending in Magdalenian times. (Click here for a Cave Drawing of a Magdalenian woman.)
    Mankind is rarely depicted, but the few representations we have found are somewhat startling. Cro-Magnon Man often depicted those of his own kind with a sense of humor: many are caricatures, although a few examples are realistic. Man is also depicted as clean-shaven, wearing shoes, pants, coats, and even hats (Hadingham, 1979). No shaggy-haired, animal-skin covered savages here! Instead we have sewn clothes, tailored with collars and sleeves, pants with legs, even bracelets and necklaces! In fact real jewelry begins at this time (Charroux, 1970). Numerous bone needles have been found (with tiny eyes), as well as obsidian "razors". These are civilized people attempting to make best in primitive conditions!

  • #2
    Atlantis was an island located about where the islands of Thera and Santorini are now. It was a typical bronze age civilization that preceded the Minoans. The ancient Greeks and Egyptians had heard about it in legend. It was destroyed in a volcanic explosion that left an underwater caldera and smaller islands around the rim of the caldera. They left two writing systems, one of which resembles early Greek, while the one they used most has not been deciphered. They may have spoken a non-Greek language.

    The scribe who wrote about it mixed up his number multiplier, like putting the decimal point in the wrong place. So the location and date are off by a factor of about 10. Yes, it really was in the Mediterranean in the bronze age.

    It's exciting for people who are into archaeology and linguistics, but too mundane for fabulists and those imagining early utopias.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
      Atlantis was an island located about where the islands of Thera and Santorini are now. It was a typical bronze age civilization that preceded the Minoans. The ancient Greeks and Egyptians had heard about it in legend. It was destroyed in a volcanic explosion that left an underwater caldera and smaller islands around the rim of the caldera. They left two writing systems, one of which resembles early Greek, while the one they used most has not been deciphered. They may have spoken a non-Greek language.

      The scribe who wrote about it mixed up his number multiplier, like putting the decimal point in the wrong place. So the location and date are off by a factor of about 10. Yes, it really was in the Mediterranean in the bronze age.

      It's exciting for people who are into archaeology and linguistics, but too mundane for fabulists and those imagining early utopias.
      No, according to Plato, Atlantis was located outside the Pillars of Hercules, or outside the straits of Gibralter:
      CRITIAS

      Comment


      • #4
        Located outside the Pillars of HERACLES. Not Hercules. Again, the decimal error puts the island in the Atlantic, rather than the Aegean.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by fiercehunter View Post
          No, according to Plato, Atlantis was located outside the Pillars of Hercules, or outside the straits of Gibralter:
          CRITIAS
          Well I guess there are 2 choices really, with no easy way to choose which of the two is correct,

          1. Atlantis was a fabulous lost continent in the Atlantic ocean... and was made up.

          2. Atlantis was a pretty ordinary bronze age island in the Med... and may have been real.

          Archaeologists and Geologists know so much about the ancient world and what was where when that I can't really see any other possibility.

          Your comments about palaeolithic people are quite another subject and very interesting!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
            Located outside the Pillars of HERACLES. Not Hercules. Again, the decimal error puts the island in the Atlantic, rather than the Aegean.
            Hercules:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Hercules

            According to Plato's account, the lost realm of Atlantis was situated beyond the Pillars of Hercules

            They had grains:
            ATLANTIS : The Lost Island | Greek mythology

            And in addition to all this, it produced and brought to perfection all those sweet-scented stuffs which the earth produces now, whether made of roots or herbs or trees, or of liquid gums derived from flowers or fruits. The cultivated fruit [i.e., of the vine] also, and the dry [i.e., corn], which serves us for nutriment, and all the other kinds that we use for our meals--the various species of which are comprehended under the name ‘vegetables’--and all the produce of trees which affords liquid and solid food and unguents [i.e., the olive], and the fruit of the orchard-trees, so hard to store, which is grown for the sake of amusement and pleasure [i.e., the pomegranate or apple], and all the after-dinner fruits [i.e., the citron] that we serve up as welcome remedies for the sufferer from repletion,--all these that hallowed island, as it lay then beneath the sun, produced in marvellous beauty and endless abundance.

            Comment


            • #7
              The idea that "Atlantis" was an early magical utopia has been around for centuries. There is no evidence, unless you think folklore that was recorded centuries or millennia after it might have happened to be "evidence".

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                The idea that "Atlantis" was an early magical utopia has been around for centuries. There is no evidence, unless you think folklore that was recorded centuries or millennia after it might have happened to be "evidence".
                Are you saying you know better than Plato? How was the information Solon got from the Egyptian priesthood "folklore"?

                There is evidence of ancient structures and pyramids all over the floor of the Atlantic ocean.

                Comment


                • #9
                  And this...
                  Did Paleolithic Man practice agriculture
                  Cro-Magnon skeletons discovered in North America

                  As in Europe, these people didn't live in caves, but in "frame houses".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fiercehunter View Post
                    Hercules:
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Hercules

                    According to Plato's account, the lost realm of Atlantis was situated beyond the Pillars of Hercules

                    They had grains:
                    ATLANTIS : The Lost Island | Greek mythology

                    And in addition to all this, it produced and brought to perfection all those sweet-scented stuffs which the earth produces now, whether made of roots or herbs or trees, or of liquid gums derived from flowers or fruits. The cultivated fruit [i.e., of the vine] also, and the dry [i.e., corn], which serves us for nutriment, and all the other kinds that we use for our meals--the various species of which are comprehended under the name ‘vegetables’--and all the produce of trees which affords liquid and solid food and unguents [i.e., the olive], and the fruit of the orchard-trees, so hard to store, which is grown for the sake of amusement and pleasure [i.e., the pomegranate or apple], and all the after-dinner fruits [i.e., the citron] that we serve up as welcome remedies for the sufferer from repletion,--all these that hallowed island, as it lay then beneath the sun, produced in marvellous beauty and endless abundance.
                    Hmm... I wonder why that link is labeled Greek mythology?
                    Is mythology now considered to be factual evidence?
                    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Surely you've read about the Japanese archaeologist whose excavations uncovered structures that were hundreds of thousands of years old. Unfortunately he got caught on security camera planting artifacts. None of it was real. It was what people wanted to believe.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm with you fiercehunter. Anyway, I like the Atlantean idea and have read Donnelley's book. Yes, I've read all the books and seen the films arguing that Santorini was Atlantis, that it erupted in about 1300 B.C., causing a Mediterreanean tsunami whose leading withdrawal accounts for the parting of the 'reed sea' that allowed the Jews to escape Egypt. That's a good story also.

                        But there is no way to mistake Santorini for Plato's description of Atlantis. More recent books and ideas are that Atlantis, after it's earthquake, migrated south and is not the continent under the 7 mile thick South Pole Ice cap.

                        I like this idea also.
                        "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
                          I'm with you fiercehunter.
                          Don't be. She's a nutjob.

                          There's a difference between something making a nice story and being objectively true.
                          Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                          Griff's cholesterol primer
                          5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                          Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                          TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                          bloodorchid is always right

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What's normal, sane? Us? Oh, come on. Aren't we all nut-jobs to some degree? I'm sure I am, when I look back at some of the things I've done.

                            Donnelly's book is very well done, and very convincing. So is Plato's story of Solon's story of the Egyptian priests story. A small problem, though, is that the Brahamini of Ancient India have an older story about a city of about the same design existing in 'heaven'. The original 'city on a hill'.

                            I must be in a fanciful mood tonight. But fancy and imagination are good and necessary things to a healthy life - - yes, and so is knowing the difference, MagicMerl.

                            I really did like Donnelly's book.
                            Last edited by Cryptocode; 04-19-2013, 10:57 AM.
                            "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm all for a fanciful imagination. And I agree that everybody is someone else's freak.

                              I guess I'm really just +1'ing eKatherine's posts here.
                              Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                              Griff's cholesterol primer
                              5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                              Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                              TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                              bloodorchid is always right

                              Comment

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