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  • #46
    Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
    But, if it happens, and the person abandons their responsibility, they're the worst kind of trash imaginable.
    AGREED! My fiance and I planned for a baby, but apparently I fell pregnant too quickly (2 months into active trying - HIS idea!) and he decided he wanted an abortion, knowing I am against abortion. As I refused he quickly turned into someone I no longer wanted to be with. I kept the baby and kicked him out.
    Do I hate all men now? Do I blame the male gender? Not at all! You can't put the blame on a whole gender based on one person's choices.

    I'm sure there are men out there who are willing to wait for your friend to be ready to have sex, but there are women out there who won't make men wait and they still have trouble finding a partner!

    I think more responsibility needs to be put on the actual person, and not on their gender.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Susie View Post
      No blame intended, but with a pregnancy, the woman is the one who has no choice about dealing with consequences. The guy can walk away if he wants to and that is why I feel there should be some responsibility and commitment.
      I'm sorry, but I gotta call bullshit on this. Women have many more choices than men do. And men cannot just "walk away". Women can go after the man legally and financially if she chooses to. On the flip-side, men have no recourse if he doesn't want her to have an abortion and she does. I know three separate guys that that has happened to. Two of them tried to convince her not to have an abortion, the third, his gf didn't even tell him she was pregnant until after the abortion because she knew he would be against it.

      Not to mention, back to child-support, how women can deny the fathers their right to see their child and the court will still make them pay child-support, including garnishing wages. Or men who have to deal with women who lie to the court to get full custody and child support, such is the case with my best friend's older brother and his recent divorce with two toddlers. Or what about when women cheat and get pregnant and the boyfriend, none the wiser, helps raise the child.

      I'm not saying that the majority of women fall into the bitch category like those above, but don't sit there and say that women are the only ones who have to deal with any consequences. I know way to many men who were good men and tried to do the right thing only to be fucked over by horrible women to let that one slide. In America, at least, women have many more options, legal and otherwise, than men do should an accident occur.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Primal Moose View Post
        I'm sorry, but I gotta call bullshit on this. Women have many more choices than men do. And men cannot just "walk away". Women can go after the man legally and financially if she chooses to. On the flip-side, men have no recourse if he doesn't want her to have an abortion and she does. I know three separate guys that that has happened to. Two of them tried to convince her not to have an abortion, the third, his gf didn't even tell him she was pregnant until after the abortion because she knew he would be against it.

        Not to mention, back to child-support, how women can deny the fathers their right to see their child and the court will still make them pay child-support, including garnishing wages. Or men who have to deal with women who lie to the court to get full custody and child support, such is the case with my best friend's older brother and his recent divorce with two toddlers. Or what about when women cheat and get pregnant and the boyfriend, none the wiser, helps raise the child.

        I'm not saying that the majority of women fall into the bitch category like those above, but don't sit there and say that women are the only ones who have to deal with any consequences. I know way to many men who were good men and tried to do the right thing only to be fucked over by horrible women to let that one slide. In America, at least, women have many more options, legal and otherwise, than men do should an accident occur.
        For a very extreme example of how the legal system often blindly favours the woman, I recommend a documentary called "Dear Zachary". You will cry.
        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

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        • #49
          Primal Moose, your are right, of course. There's more to it than I thought. I don't know very much these things. I guess it is important to choose your partners wisely, on both sides. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

          Comment


          • #50
            I highly recommend the book 'The Selfish Gene' by Richard Dawkins for a really in depth analysis that includes some really interesting scientific research that illuminates this topic (and others) in both humans and animals. Someone on this forum recommended it on another thread, and I'm really glad to have read it. It's too complex of a topic to discuss on a message board, it really does require a full length book to explain.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
              I don't know anyone who has commit to the person they lost their virginity to, I think it's a romanticism view that's been long lost, unfortunately.
              I took my husband's virginity and we're still together after 17 years, 16 of those married. My niece lost her virginity with her husband. It does happen.
              Georgette

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              • #52
                Same.
                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                Griff's cholesterol primer
                5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                bloodorchid is always right

                Comment


                • #53
                  You guys should read Sex at dawn by Christopher Ryan. It makes this whole thread moot, and it's an awesome eye-opening read.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I despise children, so I got neutered.

                    Now I can point it at anyone, and no one cares.
                    (My wife does get final say at WHOM I am pointing it at, to be clear)
                    Peak weight on Standard American Diet: 316.8 lbs
                    Initial Weight When Starting Primal: 275 lbs
                    Current weight: 210.8 lbs
                    Goal weight: 220 lbs (or less): MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

                    The way "ChooseMyPlate.gov" should have looked:
                    ChooseMyPlate

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Winterbike View Post
                      You guys should read Sex at dawn by Christopher Ryan. It makes this whole thread moot, and it's an awesome eye-opening read.
                      Except it's basically rubbish.
                      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                      Griff's cholesterol primer
                      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                      bloodorchid is always right

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Susie View Post
                        I have recently been thinking over sex in the context of primitive survival. A female, especially with a child, without a male protector, would not survive.
                        That's correct. Watch "Quest for Fire", classic film on the topic. Women make themselves useful with cooking/healing/sex so they don't get kicked out of the village.


                        Originally posted by Susie View Post
                        Why is it so hard to find a guy who will not require sex in order to decide if he wants a realtionship?
                        This part is confusing, we just established there needs to be a trade. Men like physical communication.

                        Originally posted by Susie View Post
                        So why then, does it seem that so many males want to spread their seed far and wide?
                        Survival of mankind. Men like having sex with as many healthy (attractive) females as possible.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                          I can't fathom committing to being with someone with whom I might not be sexually compatible. I don't think it's immoral or unfair to consider the sexual aspect of a relationship important, and I personally resent any implication to that effect.
                          For me the larger question is how is this compatibility determined?

                          I dont' think that having sex with the person is the only determination of whether or not the individuals involved are compatible.

                          I'd be more concerned with things like how the other perceives sex as part of the whole relationship (and/or philosophically in general), how often the person wants to have sex ideally (or, an indication of whether your sex drives match up), whether, when, and how many children a person may want and how that might impact the individual's sex life, as well as the level of commitment between partners that each partner needs to have in order to feel comfortable delving into the details of a sexual relationship all indicate "sexual compatibility."

                          For me, the physical aspects are really learned and designed between the two individuals over time. People who care for and about each other seek to please each other -- and as such will work to learn the sexual language and practices that creates the pleasurable, unifying experience of sex for both parties.

                          Thus, that can't be determined in a short time over having sex a few times to 'try things out' or determine compatibility. If there is sexual attraction, a good foundation of relationship, and a similar outlook in terms of sex. . .then there is compatibility. The physical can be co-created over time, adapted, etc.

                          As such, I dont' think it's necessarily a requirement that a person should have sex before the commitment level that creates comfort and safety for both individuals (which, btw, if htere is that pressure demonstrates *incompatibility* sexually) in order to define or determine compatibility.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            From women's perspective, yes resources and protection are essential for women who are pregnant or with a small child due to a variety of added constraints. However, a relationship is about a two people and (only talking about heterosexual relationships at this point) what is the best strategy for a woman may not be the best strategy for a man, and strategies are largely dependent on the environment a particular individual is in. There is a lot of literature out there that aims to untangle all of this from an evolutionary angle. There is some empirical evidence to support the idea that monogamy is a compromise that benefits both individuals (e.g. risky environments coupled with lengthy juvenile periods require biparental care). However, just because there is a pattern that psychologists have uncovered, it does not mean that life or a relationship has to work that way because every relationship is different. What works for some people, may not work for others. And again, environment (including socio-cultural) matters.

                            On a more personal note, if you choose to have sex on the first date, on your wedding night, or at some other time point - all that matters is that whomever you are trying to build the relationship with is on the same page.
                            "It is never too late to be what you might have been" - George Eliot

                            12 week health challenge (95%, more moving)
                            Start -- March 1st -- 173.4
                            End -- May 24th -- 158.6

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Susie View Post
                              I have recently been thinking over sex in the context of primitive survival. A female, especially with a child, without a male protector, would not survive. Females would have needed to make sure that they had a partner who was going to stick around before mating. Fathers and uncles and brothers would know this and beat to a pulp anyone who tried to do otherwise. So why then, does it seem that so many males want to spread their seed far and wide? Why is it so hard to find a guy who will not require sex in order to decide if he wants a realtionship?
                              Go to the Primal attraction thread.

                              Primeval living was not constantly dictated by survival; there was a steady way of life. Males didn't really leave any females because they never were 'with' them in the first place like a marriage. Children are raised by the tribe, not the nuclear family. Males spread their seed because their genes are selfish, and sex is a form of competition for the genes' reproduction. Guys want to spread their seed and do so by gaining power. Women want to get various kinds of seeds, and they especially want men of power.

                              Women, in monogamy, must battle between getting the seed of the powerful who will surely leave her and the help of the reliable, nice guy who she may be forced to take the seed from. Women, in primeval living, got the powerful seeds and had all the help needed from the tribe's people.

                              In feminism, women want to get the best of both worlds again. They want sexual freedom to get that powerful seed, and they want government assistance and alimony to get support when they raise the child from that powerful seed. Powerful men win, subordinate men lose. Women win. Humanity's genetics win.
                              Last edited by wiltondeportes; 03-19-2013, 02:05 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                                I don't know anyone who has commit to the person they lost their virginity to, I think it's a romanticism view that's been long lost, unfortunately.
                                Sentimental, yes. Romantic, no.

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