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  • #16
    Heh, I'll have to disagree with you there, Porters. I think you are trying to look into individual gene sets for answers that can be explained by worldwide human psychology. For example, most of the lesbian women I've known have actually been very feminine. I'm a straight woman, and I'm - in lack of better terms - very 'manly'. Most of the 'manly' women are that way as adults simply because they have spent more time around guys than gals. Some might have grown up without a mother figure but still had a father figure, they might've had a lot of brothers whom they were influenced by, or simply found it more enjoyable to play sports during school breaks than play family or with barbie dolls. As for me, I just got addicted by the game boy color when I was little, and I was the only girl who played with that, so... Yeah. *shrug*

    As for why females are attracted to 'skinnyness' is simple, really. It's survival of the fittest, and not the strongest. In the past, muscle would be a result from meeting dire needs - you HAD to be strong. It was a measurement of success, health, and other things. Today, it's not even a measurement for health with all the steroids going around. If anything, it would just tell the average woman that the guy hitting on her run with Hells Angels.
    Really, it's got a lot to do with familiarity. (Haven't you read all the articles that claim that women are more likely than not to marry a guy who bear some sort of likeness to their dad?) I mean, back in the days, if you married someone from a totally different cultural and racial background, you'd have no idea what sort of odd customs and nature religions you'd end up stuck with for the rest of your life. If you went with something familiar, it'd mean that the guy had grown up in and adapted to an environment and a life that you yourself was somewhat familiar with, too, and that would be a GOOD thing.

    So there you have it - the reasons why women today are often attracted to the 'skinny fat muscle thing' are:
    1. Bulging muscles suggest to some that he run with Hells Angels
    2. Unless the woman is also interested in an active lifestyle, it would mean that the man and the woman (or whatever gender we're talking about) might be incompatiable in an energy level. If I spent a large part of the year doing some sort of sport, I'd prefer to have a partner who could join me in my hobby from time to time.
    3. There's no need for it in todays society. The 'fittest' people nowadays are (sadly) guys who could do a lot of paperwork. Muscle means squat in terms of being able to fend for a family.
    4. The idea that Groks everywhere looked like Conan the barbarian is pretty silly. Depending on what environment your body had adapted to, it might make more sense to look like a long distance runner than someone who hauls serious iron. Besides, muscle will burn fat and that's not a good thing if you live in a place where food is scarce.
    5. It suggests a well-rounded guy. Most of the bulky dudes in the gym I know would be out of breath if they played soccer with the kids on the schoolyard outside. That's not necessarily the case with a skinny guy.


    So, while I myself would have an easier time feeling a physical attraction to a guy with some actual muscle, it's really not a strange thing that this is not necessarily the 'absolute' norm... There are more things to evolution than just the simplest things.

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    • #17
      OK, I am not into super lean guys. I like defined muscles with some fat on them. Mark Sisson does not do it for me. I also am not at all into skinny fat guys. Nor fat guys (by fat I mean Michelin Man). I like guys that look like they could manhandle me.

      And the older I get, the more I learn that men really like something beyond the model type. They like meaty asses and boobs. I've even been surprised to hear that thighs are hot.

      And no one likes flab. Or fat rolls. Mostly it seems like defined shape is the preference.

      Back in the day, I doubt many "attractive" women looked like models- either runway models or fitness models as that low of body fat makes you unable to reproduce. Today's definition of the perfect body is related to being a clothes hanger and appealing to the gay men that seem to run the fashion industry. I also doubt that there were many shapeless, blob like women.

      Same with men- there probably were very few that somehow could achieve the Mark Sisson body where you somehow build muscle instead of fat.

      http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
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      • #18
        This is what I'm talking about!

        To be attracted to bony/angular/underfatted women is not likely something Grok would have demonstrated. Sure Grok was horny, but the alpha Grok got his pick....

        Likewise, I doubt Grokette would be most attracted to underfatted, over muscled, or the obese/bloated/skinny fat Grok.

        Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
        OK, I am not into super lean guys. I like defined muscles with some fat on them. Mark Sisson does not do it for me. I also am not at all into skinny fat guys. Nor fat guys (by fat I mean Michelin Man). I like guys that look like they could manhandle me.

        And the older I get, the more I learn that men really like something beyond the model type. They like meaty asses and boobs. I've even been surprised to hear that thighs are hot.

        And no one likes flab. Or fat rolls. Mostly it seems like defined shape is the preference.

        Back in the day, I doubt many "attractive" women looked like models- either runway models or fitness models as that low of body fat makes you unable to reproduce. Today's definition of the perfect body is related to being a clothes hanger and appealing to the gay men that seem to run the fashion industry. I also doubt that there were many shapeless, blob like women.

        Same with men- there probably were very few that somehow could achieve the Mark Sisson body where you somehow build muscle instead of fat.
        Last edited by iconoclast79; 03-15-2013, 06:39 AM.

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        • #19
          As far as physical shape goes, I vastly prefer thin women, it's just the way it's always been. I'm drawn to petite women over any other. Dark hair, very thin, damaged, that's my type. Though, maybe that's just my age. Most of the older men I talk to want "lots of them curves" and not the shape, but just a good amount of body fat.

          Basically, I want to rub my twig body against another twig and start a fire.

          This(with varying degrees of thinness):
          Last edited by Derpamix; 03-15-2013, 06:49 AM.
          Make America Great Again

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          • #20
            I think there's a lot of modernist projection going on here. In paleo times, people lived in small tribes. They didn't have access to a great many potential partners from which to choose for mates. If there's only one available mate when you reach puberty, you pick that one. Or your tribe does it for you. They didn't have access to statistical data that showed that on the average, people who are thin but still apparently healthy were slightly less likely to survive the next bad hunting season. And being thinner than average, for any one individual, can be normal and healthy, while some other individual at that weight might be clearly on the way out, which would have automatically removed them from the mating pool.

            I think the fact that unhealthy individuals are taken out of the gene pool by nature in times of environmental stress would have been a far greater influence than humans thinking this might happen and then doing so deliberately.

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            • #21
              Watch some movies from the 50s or 60s, stuff with Doris Day and Rock Hudson or equivalent. 6-pack abs are a new thing. That's not what has always been considered a "hunk" for a man. Super lean women like Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2 changed the ideal for women. Before her, you wanted to look like the women of Charlie's Angels. Slender, yes, muscular, no!

              Even better, check out pictures of actual aboriginal people. The women are fairly soft. The men are fairly lean, but they aren't bulging huge. Many are not even as muscular as Mark.
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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              • #22
                Give me a caber tossing Scotsman any day of the week. Well muscled, but with enough meat on him to hold on to. And good theighs...

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                • #23
                  I haven't a clue why, but I like big cuddly men. I don't want to be shaking out the bedsheets to find him, and I don't want to cut myself on his abs. As far as my own attractiveness, I have no idea how others perceive me. I just know that no one has ever turned me down!
                  My Primal Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread53052.html

                  "Freedom from fear" could be said to sum up the whole philosophy of human rights. - Dag Hammarskjold

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                  • #24
                    You Tell Us: Who's The Sexiest? - Marie Claire Magazine - Yahoo!7 Lifestyle

                    It seams that for the most part, at least in this survey people find women with curves more attractive. Personally I do not like skinny men. I like a man with some muscles and a bit of body fat. I am not attracted to a six pack but I don't want a man that looks pregnant either.

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                    • #25
                      I actually think that primal men probably had to be taught that they are supposed to have sex with women, and that most men were content to just mess with each other.
                      "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                      Jack london, "Before Adam"

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                        I actually think that primal men probably had to be taught that they are supposed to have sex with women, and that most men were content to just mess with each other.
                        Um, I think you might be incorrectly generalizing your personal situation to the larger situation- not that there's anything wrong with that....

                        Sorry- I see a slow pitch down the middle, I'm going to hit it.

                        But seriously, you can't be serious??

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                        • #27
                          Go to any bar among the mediocre and generally unexceptional, and listen to them talk about their teams. Some really homoerotic stuff- they even use tones that sound like men talking stupidly in pornography. Note misogynistic commentary, and cross-reference against this behavior.
                          "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                          Jack london, "Before Adam"

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                          • #28
                            Homo banter is nothing new among men. Guys routinely grope me, and make gay jokes all the time. Women also do similar things with one another, such as real close dancing, making out, etc;

                            The most homophobic men are usually the ones just repressing it. Others are comfortable.
                            Make America Great Again

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                            • #29
                              But there are a lot of homophobic men, is what I am saying...so, doesn't that mean there's a lot of homosexual attraction?
                              "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                              Jack london, "Before Adam"

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                                But there are a lot of homophobic men, is what I am saying...so, doesn't that mean there's a lot of homosexual attraction?
                                Yes
                                Make America Great Again

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