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  • Gall Stones

    Hi - been primal since November and it's had a massive effect on my life and also I am happy to say my parents' lives - they seem to be following me in this journey to a large extent, which is great also. My mom has gall stones and her doctors wanted to remove her gall bladder (she's 57) and she's now hoping that the right dietary changes will to some extent reverse the problem without this kind of medical lunacy - removing the gall bladder...??? Has anyone here had gall stones and are there any signs you know of that the avoidance of grains/sugar/dairy/seed oils can help this problem?

    Thanks all and happy Grokking...
    Healthy is the new wealthy.

    http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

  • #2
    Yes, I had undiagnosed gall stones. Some idiot doctor thought it was just constipation. So about 5 months later I had my gall bladder removed in an emergency operation. I live comfortably without it and am very happy on the Primal diet even though it's high in fats.

    Here, when gall stones are found, they should be removed by an operation. When that is done you typically do not loose the entire gall bladder.
    "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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    • #3
      I have no gall bladder had it removed in a emergency situation as well. I have no ill effects of not having one. However, I have done a little research and it is appearing gall bladder problems are a result of wheat and gluten intolerance. Definitely give Primal a try, stay really dedicated to being off gluten and grains. Read the book Wheat Belly, it may give you some insight too.
      Primal since 4/7/2012

      Starting weight 140
      Current weigh 126

      www.jenniferglobensky.blogspot.com

      Jennifer

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
        Yes, I had undiagnosed gall stones. Some idiot doctor thought it was just constipation. So about 5 months later I had my gall bladder removed in an emergency operation. I live comfortably without it and am very happy on the Primal diet even though it's high in fats.

        Here, when gall stones are found, they should be removed by an operation. When that is done you typically do not loose the entire gall bladder.
        Here they want to rip the whole gall bladder out when stones are found.
        I had some just before going back to primal, and I used a olive oil/lemon juice flush to get the stones out. Since then have had no pain. Have not yet had another ultrasound, but due to no more pain I don't see the point. This was nearly 6 months ago now.
        If you google you will find various sites about that flush. You would need to decide if its right for you before trying though.
        There was no way I was getting my gall bladder out.

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        • #5
          because of pain and an ultrasound I became aware of the fact that I have many gallstones. Since going primal (18 months) I have had only one incident of a sharp pain that lasted only about 45 minutes. this while doing the contrary to medical opinion (go low on fat), I eat a lot of fat. I would like to try a flush someday.
          An optimist is someone who falls off the Empire State Building, and after 50 floors says, 'So far so good!'
          -Somebody funny

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          • #6
            I had, what I believed to be gall bladder issues, on my first primal venture (lots of nausea and upper right quadrant pain). What helped me tremendously was to have some Bragg's apple cider vinegar in water. She could try that; it has lots of health benefits. If she can't stand it in water, she could put it in a little apple juice.
            True healthcare reform starts in your kitchen, not in Washington. ~Anonymous
            The worst carrot is better than the best candybar.--TornadoGirl

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            • #7
              The Liver is the source of the distress.

              Attention to the liver is more important.

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              • #8
                It is not 'lunacy' to remove the gall bladder of someone with stones because that is a relatively benign procedure--and gall bladder complications can be severe and potentially life threatening.

                Several years ago, I wound up being taken by ambulance to a hospital ER because I collapsed in a public building. After a day of tests, doctors speculated that I passed a tiny gall stone which, as it exited, 'tipped' my pancreas--resulting in pancreatitis. They decided to remove the gall bladder because pancreatitis is truly serious, but the scans showed no other stones--and they could not remove an organ that looked healthy.

                My gastro wants me now (3 years later) to have it removed, since a subsequent scan showed one tiny stone (and he can justify it medically because of my past pancreatitis) , but I'm not in favor of elective procedures simply to possibly prevent something that may never, ever occur. However, if I had multiple stones, I'd have no problem opting for surgery.

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                • #9
                  Had mine out in 2010. I seem to have called the stones down on me by suddenly going into the CA's low fat approach, but it could be coincidental.

                  No complications, really, except the scar between my ribs itches sometimes and I swear it has reduced my ability to do sit ups.

                  M.

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                  • #10
                    Ignoring gallstones can be potentially fatal. I used to think that gallstones were no big deal until I met someone that had a bunch of gallstones, of which 1 occluded the common bile duct and the bile backed up and caused pancreatitis. Because of the anatomy of this person, the inflamation from the pancreatitis caused a blood clot to form in the splenic vein, which caused the spleen to enlarge and become septic. Eventually the spleen was removed and the patient improved, but the ordeal required over 6 months of hospitalization for the recovery.

                    Don't play games with gallstones.... it could kill you.

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                    • #11
                      I agree with many of the replies, gallstones can get lodged in ducts and cause life threatening complications. I had mine removed after losing a huge amount of weight in a short amount of time, which commonly results in gallstones. I'm not sure if a change of diet would really help, as the stones are usually made out of cholesterol--so the problem is already there, and came from her previous diet. If my hunch is correct, PUFA's are likely to blame. I just did a little bit of digging and found this: The effect of polyunsaturated fats on bile acid m... [Metabolism. 1978] - PubMed - NCBI

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                      • #12
                        Stones can still form without the gallbladder organ. Pain does not always resolve after gallbladder removal.

                        Address the source of the problem to achieve a genuine solution.

                        With no gallbladder and with a high fat diet, it may be necessary to add ox bile + bile salts as nutritional aids for digestion.

                        "Gall Bladder Removal

                        According to Dr. James Howenstine, in his column on NewsWithViews.com, if a patient undergoes cholecystectomy, or surgical removal of the gallbladder, then the patient no longer has bile secreted into the digestive tract. The consequences of this are that toxins normally broken down by the bile and eliminated from the body as waste end up being stored in the body's fat. These toxins can cause inflammation, infection and cancer."


                        "Bile Salts as a Nutritional Supplement

                        For patients wishing to supplement their daily nutrition with bile salts, freeze-dried ox bile is readily available at health food stores and online sources."


                        Read more


                        More here and here.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by StephenHLi View Post
                          Stones can still form without the gallbladder organ. Pain does not always resolve after gallbladder removal.

                          Address the source of the problem to achieve a genuine solution.

                          With no gallbladder and with a high fat diet, it may be necessary to add ox bile + bile salts as nutritional aids for digestion.
                          Interesting, though I'm not the OP thanks for the links. I picked up some ox bile recently as a supplement on the recommendation of someone else who is gallbladder-less. It makes sense though--if you read the study I linked, the choleolithasis was caused by the PUFA safflower oil not stimulating an increase in bile production, whereas the monkeys fed butter and coconut oil did have increased bile production. So by eliminating those bad fats with a Primal diet, theoretically the increased bile production could dissolve existing gallstones. My worry though is the potential in the meantime for one of those stones to get lodged and cause serious complications, as it's been shown that it takes a long time to dissolve stones through bile salts/Actigall (though with a diet that stimulates endogenous bile production, maybe not so long?). Interesting stuff that I wish I'd known before I had mine removed. I did ask for Actigall after my weight loss surgery to prevent stones (as I did know that over 30% of bypass patients ended up developing gallstones due to the rapid weight loss) but he refused, saying my GB looked great when he performed the surgery. Sure enough, just a few months later I needed it removed. If I had only known about ox bile back then, maybe I'd still have it.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks- so this could mean that using the coconut oil and butter will promote bile production and possibly reduce the gallstones which is good. The study hat was posted above with the monkeys seems to indicate that these good oils will actually reduce the levels of cholesterol in the bile therefore reduce the gallstones - another reason to avoid PUFA's.
                            Healthy is the new wealthy.

                            http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

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                            • #15
                              I had my gall bladder removed pre-primal. The attacks are extremely painful and the risks mentioned above should be noted.

                              One thing I wish I knew pre-removal: there's a lot of anecdotal evidence of patients developing IBS after removal, myself included. My doctors insisted there would be no ramifications of gall bladder removal. Some said I may need to eat a low-fat diet afterwards to avoid diarrhea. But no matter what I ate, I had multiple episodes per week of cramping diarrhea for about two years after removal. Then it morphed into alternating IBS, meaning I pretty much always either had constipation or diarrhea. A normal bowel movement become a banner occasion.

                              Primal, probiotics, and soluble fiber or magnesium as needed has really helped with the symptoms. But I learned after the fact that I was hardly the only person this happened to. I probably would have had the operation anyway, but it would have been nice to have known this was a possible effect.

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