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  • #76
    Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
    I think Cori was referring to children who respond in silence as a coping mechanism against trauma. At least that's what I took from it.
    I assumed it was more about the fact that some kids are stubborn little buggers from an early age and won't back down when they think they're being pushed.

    Do you mind me asking what techniques your parents used? I'm not trying to be contentious - I'm genuinely interested. I would have no idea how to raise a child.
    They combined a heavy dose of the Socratic Method (dialog, lots of questions with most of them leading... "You think that... Why? What about this?"), active involvement in real-world stuff (we actually built stuff, did stuff, example: when I was 7 my father showed up from work one night with an IBM PC XT clone in a whole bunch of boxes...monitor, different drives, video card, motherboard, and so on...I put it together the next day, no assistance), not understanding the term "age appropriate" (the first school I ever intended was a university...I was 4ish, my mother was the student, but I remember some of what was taught in those classes), and a fair measure of what in modern buzz parlance would be called "unparenting." Top 10 Radical Parenting Methods : Discovery Health In other words, they pulled me in instead of pushing me around.
    Last edited by Him; 02-11-2013, 04:44 PM.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Him View Post
      I assumed it was more about the fact that some kids are stubborn little buggers from an early age and won't back down when they think they're being pushed.
      Ha - what we interpreted probably reflects our own habitual responses

      Originally posted by Him View Post
      They combined a heavy dose of the Socratic Method (dialog, lots of questions with most of them leading... "You think that... Why? What about this?"), active involvement in real-world stuff (we actually built stuff, did stuff, example: when I was 7 my father showed up from work one night with an IBM PC XT clone in a whole bunch of boxes...monitor, different drives, video card, motherboard, and so on...I put it together the next day, no assistance), not understanding the term "age appropriate" (the first school I ever intended was a university...I was 4ish, my mother was the student, but I remember some of what was taught in those classes), and a fair measure of what in modern buzz parlance would be called "unparenting." Top 10 Radical Parenting Methods : Discovery Health In other words, they pulled me in instead of pushing me around.
      Thanks for that link - really interesting stuff. Looking forward to reading it in depth
      "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

      In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

      - Ray Peat

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      • #78
        I was hit on occasion. More often I was let be. To be honest, I think both mental and physical discipline would have been better than the odd bit of mental discipline and what was essentially no physical punishment at all.

        If a kid threatens its own life or that of a weaker child, physical punishment should be allowed. If it is over tantrum-age (so about 10) and has a "tantrum" (a typically mature child having a "tantrum" is usually an emotional outburst similar to a panic-attack), hitting or physically retraining could help calm the child before it acts irrationally.
        If a child is too young to understand a logical explanation of something ("don't climb up there, you'll get hurt"), then a smack can help associate the behaviour with a lesser pain than they would experience if they continued.
        If a kid is just misbehaving, but otherwise level-headed, a telling-off or being sent to think over it should be enough.
        In pretty much any other scenario physical discipline would only serve as an anger-defuser for the parent and build distrust and resent, so it shouldn't be used.

        Ideally, it should be possible to protect young children from every threat until they're old enough to understand it, a child should be educated and respectful enough that any argument they want to have can be debated and a child wouldn't have random "fits" of anger. But sometimes a kid poses a danger to themselves or a younger child, there is a threat/behaviour that can't be stopped or continually monitored, or a kid is having a panic/rage attack. In those cases, breaking the behaviour by associating it with pain would be the best solution, to avoid it continuing.
        --
        Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

        --
        I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
        I'd apologize, but...

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        • #79
          Getting spanked or yelled at (among other things) by my father was a given in our house.
          I was spanked so hard (bare hand on my bare bum) that I couldn't sit down for three days without feeling it.
          He hit me so hard across the head that I blacked out.

          He is dead.
          Female, age 51, 5' 9"
          SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

          Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
          2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

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          • #80
            Originally posted by jojohaligo View Post
            Getting spanked or yelled at (among other things) by my father was a given in our house.
            I was spanked so hard (bare hand on my bare bum) that I couldn't sit down for three days without feeling it.
            He hit me so hard across the head that I blacked out.

            He is dead.
            And you are still alive. I hope he didn't hurt you too badly.
            Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

            My Primal Journal

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
              Ayla what about meat eating?
              What about it? It's not even related.
              Not that it matters but we only buy meat that is killed gently and quickly and by hand

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              • #82
                Not sure why this is even in 'Health and Fitness'.

                a violent response teaches a violent response.

                pretty simple.

                most kids don't even understand why they are being hit. I now remember why I stopped reading these forums everyday.
                -mikewootini
                ==================================================
                While I am 100% primal, sometimes I change gears to Paleo.
                twitter feed * Wootini Gallery

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                • #83
                  I'm a little shocked at how many people find spanking and beating to be equivalent in their minds. I was spanked. I was not beat. Spanking is done out of love, to teach a lesson. Some kids don't require spanking, some do.

                  And to be clear, spanking is not done with a fist to the face. These posts where someone says "How would you feel if someone smacked you across the face?" Well, that's not spanking.

                  And as to whether it should be ok to do this to adults- does anyone remember a few years back there was an American citizen that has broken the law in Asia somewhere and his sentence was that he would be caned 20 times? And the outcry over that? Frankly, I think the USA should employ caning as a form of punishment. It appears that criminals, just like kids, are more afraid of having their backside swatted than they are of a "time out" (jail).
                  High Weight: 225
                  Weight at start of Primal: 189
                  Current Weight: 174
                  Goal Weight: 130

                  Primal Start Date: 11/26/2012

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                    And you are still alive. I hope he didn't hurt you too badly.
                    Yup, I am alive and don't suffer depression or other ailments as a result and I am fairly happy. My siblings have not fared as well.

                    To acknowledge the difference, he beat us and he spanked us, but when you are the kid in the midst of it, there is really no difference. It all reads the same.
                    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
                    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

                    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
                    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

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                    • #85
                      Look I was going to reply to lots of people in this thread.
                      But yes I see any hitting as abuse. I guess in NZ its seen that way too, since its illegal to smack your kids. Sadly it won't stop people. Yes all I saw was being hit by the person who was supposed to love and protect me, not hurt me. I can't do that to my children. I don't need to make them fear me. I know my thread is what prompted this one. I wasn't looking to argue with people, I just wanted other ideas about how to deal with an issue, which may not even be an issue. But anyway.
                      I just don't see a need to hit at all. There have been times when I have been angry about something and had a momentary thought of "oh I could smack you" but I have stopped myself. Never ever have I thought about hitting while calm.
                      Hitting in any form, can have a serious affect on you. I am sorry to those who suffered abuse. Its nasty, and something I saw and experienced in different forms growing up.
                      I don't agree with it, but I am not going to argue with people who smack their children. I just don't want to fight.

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                      • #86
                        For those who do smack, where do you draw the line? Do you ever smack when you are calm, and rational? Or only angry. When is it too much. Smack on the bum didn't work, so a slap on the face? Or pushing them into the wall? Still not listening? How about a punch in the face and then thrown into the wall.
                        I know if I am angry and think about it I am able to stop myself. What about those who start hitting out of anger? Where do you stop?
                        Being hit is one thing. But then seeing your sister hit and punched until the woman who raised you was pulled off her because she literally could not stop is another. All because she had sex and smoked pot at 14. When you are constantly told no, but not told of what would happen if you do things like then, of course you want to see what the big deal is about. Then being punished like that because you were not educated properly. Yeah not OK.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by jojohaligo View Post
                          Yup, I am alive and don't suffer depression or other ailments as a result and I am fairly happy. My siblings have not fared as well.

                          To acknowledge the difference, he beat us and he spanked us, but when you are the kid in the midst of it, there is really no difference. It all reads the same.
                          it didn't to me. in my mind there was a very clear and very sharp distinction *shrug*
                          beautiful
                          yeah you are

                          Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                          lol

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                          • #88
                            Is it OK to hit your wife for losing an earing?
                            For forgetting to pay a bill?
                            Think if you hit her, she will remember next time? Maybe she will, but she would be too scared to do otherwise.

                            What about hitting the man who accidentally ran up the butt of your car, because he wasn't paying attention?

                            I just don't understand why people think its OK to hit a child, but not an adult.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
                              it didn't to me. in my mind there was a very clear and very sharp distinction *shrug*
                              Not for me.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
                                For those who do smack, where do you draw the line? Do you ever smack when you are calm, and rational? Or only angry. When is it too much. Smack on the bum didn't work, so a slap on the face? Or pushing them into the wall? Still not listening? How about a punch in the face and then thrown into the wall.
                                I know if I am angry and think about it I am able to stop myself. What about those who start hitting out of anger? Where do you stop?
                                Being hit is one thing. But then seeing your sister hit and punched until the woman who raised you was pulled off her because she literally could not stop is another. All because she had sex and smoked pot at 14. When you are constantly told no, but not told of what would happen if you do things like then, of course you want to see what the big deal is about. Then being punished like that because you were not educated properly. Yeah not OK.
                                where does that even come from? seriously?

                                if i am pro spanking, i am automatically violent and will beat my child to death?
                                beautiful
                                yeah you are

                                Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                                lol

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