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  • #61
    Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
    why would you want the kid to cry out?
    I wouldn't.
    But I read the OP's original post on this topic... and that seemed to be his aim.

    And it has seemed to be the aim of every single spanking I've ever been party to or witnessed either in person or in the media.
    Making the child hurt, react, cry out, leave a red mark, shed some tears... whatever.

    What about the kid who does NOT react to the smack?
    Was it the smack, or the child?

    I'll give you two guesses what the reaction of the spanker is in that situation BTW.
    *Hint: It's definitely not "Oh, OK... you've already been punished so you're done." At least not IME.
    Last edited by cori93437; 02-11-2013, 04:09 PM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

    Comment


    • #62
      if the actual aim is to make the kid cry or scream, it's abuse

      if the kid does not show any emotion to spanking then i would guess he's either been spanked too much or just doesn't care

      in which case spanking is not effective, and it is time to try time outs with nothing to look at or listen to but barney. vintage barney.

      when they start tremulously singing along to Clean Up then punishment is complete
      beautiful
      yeah you are

      Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
      lol

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Louisa655
        These types of comments are actually frightening to me. And we wonder how and why atrocities of war crimes existed? Exactly for this reason. Humans who are capable of inflicting physical, mental, and emotional trauma on other humans beings have gone down in history in crimes against humanity. It starts with control and physical abuse against children and escalates from there. This is a frightening topic and I'm disengaging from this discussion. Adults who assault animals and other human beings -- and justify their behaviour with "they deserve it" are frightening individuals.
        Ummm... are you inferring that I advocate violence against kids from my comment?!

        Other than that, I agree with everything else you said.
        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Louisa655
          These types of comments are actually frightening to me. And we wonder how and why atrocities of war crimes existed? Exactly for this reason. Humans who are capable of inflicting physical, mental, and emotional trauma on other humans beings have gone down in history in crimes against humanity. It starts with control and physical abuse against children and escalates from there. This is a frightening topic and I'm disengaging from this discussion. Adults who assault animals and other human beings -- and justify their behaviour with "they deserve it" are frightening individuals.
          ...um... okay?
          beautiful
          yeah you are

          Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
          lol

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post

            if the kid does not show any emotion to spanking then i would guess he's either been spanked too much
            Yup. It's called disassociating. "Leaving your body". It's a coping mechanism. And it has subtle, far reaching consequences into the person's future life.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissoci...8psychology%29
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

            Comment


            • #66
              My father never, ever hit me. I love him dearly. I respected him, looked up to him, enjoyed being his child, and wanted to please him.

              My mother vented frustrations on me frequently. Screaming, yelling, hitting. I was afraid of her. I have memories of locking myself in the bathroom to escape her, and she would be pounding on the door, screaming. I have a startle reflex to loud noises and aversion to loud voices.

              I raised both my kids without violence; they are 21 and 22 now and we have loving and kind relationships, and they both neat people whom I admire.

              By the way, my only sister was 9 years younger than I. I had to watch my mother behave in the same way with her. I remember being in the hallway, with my sister locked in the bathroom, watching my mom screaming at her, and me, sobbing in the hallway begging her to stop.

              Sadly, we lost my sister to suicide in 2001 after a lifetime of emotional difficulty.

              I have no idea if 'swatting' or 'spanking' in a controlled way without anger is effective or good, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what I and my sister experienced was a horror. I have done well and good in my life despite my mother's behavior, not because of it.

              Pea

              Comment


              • #67
                i've experienced normal parenting and i've experienced abusive parenting, i know

                Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                Yup. It's called disassociating. "Leaving your body". It's a coping mechanism. And it has subtle, far reaching consequences into the person's future life.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissoci...8psychology%29
                beautiful
                yeah you are

                Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                lol

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                  Ummm... are you inferring that I advocate violence against kids from my comment?!

                  Other than that, I agree with everything else you said.
                  I'm not referring to any comment or position that you may or may not hold. I've clearly stated my comments on this topic and I'm withdrawing from any further comments. I'm proud to have raised 4 successful young human beings -- without any physical abuse. All children are unique -- all had their challenges growing up and all who are contributing in a meaningful way to humanity as adults (with the exception of one who has passed away from cancer). I have delighted in, and worked with youth my entire life. I love youth and their individual ability and desires to buck conservatism. I thank God every day for our youth --- because they are our future. We need kids who think differently --- who don't comply with 'our thinking'. I love youth who want more than what we have --- who want differently than the "things" that we value. We are a materialistic generation and our kids think differently -- Thank God for that. Give our children the freedom to grow -- the freedom to think differently -- and the respect they deserve. Our kids MAY NOT THINK LIKE US and that's a good thing -- because this world needs a lot of change to make it better. The end. I'm now withdrawing.
                  ----------------------------------------
                  F, 48, 5'10"
                  Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
                  Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

                  Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    ^ well, you did quote me so it wasn't a leap to presume that statement was directed at me.!

                    Nothing to withdraw from from me FYI - I happen to agree with you.
                    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                    - Ray Peat

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                      And what do you do to the kid who doesn't respond with the expected "pain" out cry from your spanking?
                      What if they show no response at all?


                      That happens too.
                      My father has told the story of going through a grocery store with me when I was 2-4 years old. Young enough that I don't remember any of this, but old enough that I was starting to be me. I was acting up, and he was doing the "stop or you'll get a spanking," thing, but I ignored him. Finally, he did swat me. As he tells it, this was my response...

                      He says I turned to glare at him and said, very loudly, "You brute!" That was it.

                      He says he got some very strange looks from fellow shoppers about that.

                      Physical punishment didn't work on me. I tended to be somewhat stubborn when approached that way. My parents adapted and used techniques that I think worked out OK.

                      Originally posted by Louisa655
                      We are talking different beasts. Everyone has the right to protect themselves. Can a 4-year old protect themselves against an enraged parent? I think not.
                      Who says the parent is enraged? That's just silly. Maybe you had lousy parents....
                      Last edited by Him; 02-11-2013, 04:23 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Him View Post
                        My father has told the story of going through a grocery store with me when I was 2-3 years old. Young enough that I don't remember any of this, but old enough that I was starting to be me. I was acting up, and he was doing the "stop or you'll get a spanking," thing, but I ignored him. Finally, he did swat me. As he tells it, this was my response...

                        He says I turned to glare at him and said, very loudly, "You brute!" That was it.

                        He says he got some very strange looks from fellow shoppers about that.

                        Physical punishment didn't work on me. I tended to be somewhat stubborn when approached that way. My parents adapted and used techniques that I think worked out OK.
                        I think Cori was referring to children who respond in silence as a coping mechanism against trauma. At least that's what I took from it.

                        Do you mind me asking what techniques your parents used? I'm not trying to be contentious - I'm genuinely interested. I would have no idea how to raise a child.
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                          ^ well, you did quote me so it wasn't a leap to presume that statement was directed at me.!

                          Nothing to withdraw from from me FYI - I happen to agree with you.
                          My apologies, YogaBear: I have nothing but respect for you, your posts and your contribution to MDA. I follow your comments and your thread and I, in no way, meant to offend or insult you. This is a topic that just brings me out of my normal, introverted shell. I'm sorry if I offended you -- it was definitely not my intention.
                          ----------------------------------------
                          F, 48, 5'10"
                          Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
                          Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

                          Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I don't have kids yet. When I do, I hope I can raise them without ever striking them; that's the goal, and we'll see if I succeed in 25 years or so.

                            I tend to think hitting kids represents a failure on the parents' part. I don't think it's a legitimate parenting strategy and for some kids it can lead to serious psychological damage.
                            Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                            My Primal Journal

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Louisa655 View Post
                              My apologies, YogaBear: I have nothing but respect for you, your posts and your contribution to MDA. I follow your comments and your thread and I, in no way, meant to offend or insult you. This is a topic that just brings me out of my normal, introverted shell. I'm sorry if I offended you -- it was definitely not my intention.
                              None taken! Glad we clarified that, lol. I appreciate your contribution too.
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                                The distinctions between spanking and hitting can be tenuous.
                                And subjective. To many a third party I daresay there isn't much difference at all.

                                Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                                I take my hat off to anyone who has kids because raising them looks like a minefield. My sister has a gorgeous little toddler who is impossible to manage cos' my sister doesn't want to be strict or impinge on the kid's development. She's reacting against her own excessively disciplinarian upbringing, but it's too far the other way.
                                I would argue that violence isn't the same thing as discipline at all. I'm ALL for children having discipline and self control. Whether you need to use violence as a parenting technique is much more debateable.
                                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                                Griff's cholesterol primer
                                5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                                Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                                TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                                bloodorchid is always right

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