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  • #31
    i agree with your whole post, him
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
    lol

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    • #32
      As a non parent I am curious how no-spank parents develop resepct in a child that doesn't have any. When there is active disrespect to parents/adults/strangers - how do you *instill* respect? Beyond the logical explanation of "you should be respectful to X, Y, Z" what happens when they are deciding to be little turds?
      ad astra per aspera

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      • #33
        Originally posted by PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess View Post
        I don't believe that "it depends on the child." It depends on the parent. If a parent hits and the lesson ends there, of course the deviant behavior can continue. If parenting were as easy as hitting=success or guilt=success, we would have a world full of successful, well adjusted adults. But there is more to it than that. We have parents that hit without remorse or love and parents that coddle and never teach independance.
        Sorry, but the child's personality absolutely plays a part in how it works.
        The same parents with two children of two different emotional dispositions will have very different outcomes if they try and use the exact same discipline methods on both children no matter how hard they try and manage them identically.

        Simple facts.

        Lots of children get hit/spanked and get over it because children are for the most part very resilient little beasts.
        Lots of children get over even unspeakable acts of violence and abuse inside the home to become, for all appearances, normal well adjusted adults.

        But to other children not so much. They are less resilient to those early stage traumas, or they internalize it more.
        It does make a real difference in the rate of violence in adults.
        “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
        ~Friedrich Nietzsche
        And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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        • #34
          So here's a question for all the adults on this line of discussion:

          It's Monday morning, and you have an interview at an organization that you are very excited about. You have prepared for this interview and you eagerly await the big meeting with the director. The director enters the interview room, sits down and asks for a copy of your resume. Oh my God --- it's the one thing you have overlooked throughout this whole process. Who could have known this Director would have asked for a copy of your resume.

          You apologize for not bringing an extra copy of your resume, and the director stands up, approaches you, and smacks you across the face for being naughty in not bringing your resume.

          At first you are shocked, and then you feel you 'deserve the punishment' for being so 'stupid' for forgetting something as basic as your resume.

          Now let's pause a moment. Let's say you are a child. And let's say as a child you made a mistake, or overlooked something that your parents wanted from you. How did that smack across the face feel?

          Did that smack make you a better person? Did that smack make you smarter? more effective? more responsible?

          Did that smack make you feel more respectful to the role of authority?

          What is the purpose of the smack and could the message have been delivered in a more respectful, thoughtful way?

          I'm not pretending to know the answers to these questions....but someone needs to ask the questions here........

          /signed, thoughtful
          ----------------------------------------
          F, 48, 5'10"
          Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
          Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

          Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Louisa655 View Post
            So here's a question for all the adults on this line of discussion:

            It's Monday morning, and you have an interview at an organization that you are very excited about. You have prepared for this interview and you eagerly await the big meeting with the director. The director enters the interview room, sits down and asks for a copy of your resume. Oh my God --- it's the one thing you have overlooked throughout this whole process. Who could have known this Director would have asked for a copy of your resume.

            You apologize for not bringing an extra copy of your resume, and the director stands up, approaches you, and smacks you across the face for being naughty in not bringing your resume.

            At first you are shocked, and then you feel you 'deserve the punishment' for being so 'stupid' for forgetting something as basic as your resume.

            Now let's pause a moment. Let's say you are a child. And let's say as a child you made a mistake, or overlooked something that your parents wanted from you. How did that smack across the face feel?

            Did that smack make you a better person? Did that smack make you smarter? more effective? more responsible?

            Did that smack make you feel more respectful to the role of authority?

            What is the purpose of the smack and could the message have been delivered in a more respectful, thoughtful way?

            I'm not pretending to know the answers to these questions....but someone needs to ask the questions here........

            /signed, thoughtful
            I think that's a pretty blatant straw man argument/example. I don't think anyone advocates corporal punishment for a mistake on this level :/
            ad astra per aspera

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            • #36
              I got hit at school (another country) and at home. My parents have no problem with corporal punishment.
              F 28/5'4/100 lbs

              "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

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              • #37
                i would respect his authoritah, lousia

                i should have remembered my extra resume

                also, i'm sorry,but who the f here is advocating a slapping a small child on the face for any reason
                beautiful
                yeah you are

                Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                lol

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by TheFastCat View Post
                  I think that's a pretty blatant straw man argument/example. I don't think anyone advocates corporal punishment for a mistake on this level :/
                  Unfortunately... a lot of people do exactly that.



                  As an aside, with my own son... at one point I did have to take his books away. *sigh*
                  Because THAT was an effective punishment for him: grounding him from reading.
                  Weird but true.
                  “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                  ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                  And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TheFastCat View Post
                    I think that's a pretty blatant straw man argument/example. I don't think anyone advocates corporal punishment for a mistake on this level :/
                    No it's not. That's the sort of stuff that kids get hit for all the time.

                    When you subtitute another adult into the 'child' role it's easy to see how completely unacceptable the behaviour of the 'parent' is.
                    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                    Griff's cholesterol primer
                    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                    bloodorchid is always right

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                    • #40
                      who is advocating slapping a child across the face for a mistake?
                      beautiful
                      yeah you are

                      Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                      lol

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        There are a lot of cultures that find smacking adults in that situation to be perfectly acceptable...
                        "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                        Jack london, "Before Adam"

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
                          i would respect his authoritah, lousia

                          i should have remembered my extra resume

                          also, i'm sorry,but who the f here is advocating a slapping a small child on the face for any reason
                          That would be the OP dear...
                          Quoted from over in the "gentle/attached parenting thread"

                          Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                          there isn't like a mean uncle figure to just smack him in the face once when this happens?

                          I do not understand the theory behind not hitting children- daily and shit, for the hell of it, I understand why this is bad, but where in nature do you not see hurt and aggression as a means of instruction? If he doesn't learn now, he is going to be trying to talk out a problem with a knife-wielding subhuman with no critical thought, empathy, or language skills.

                          Obviously "modelling" non-aggression isn't working if he is hitting his brother when he is displeased. Sounds like he just needs to learn that violence is not some abstract and confusing mommy-speak concept, but rather, an actual stinging blow on his fat spoiled cheek.
                          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
                            who is advocating slapping a child across the face for a mistake?
                            "lots of people"
                            ad astra per aspera

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                            • #44
                              The distinctions between spanking and hitting can be tenuous. It really depends on the parent's temper. My dad reprimanded me maybe a couple of times, but he never hit me out of rage (unlike my mum). Hitting is more about the parent venting their frustrations and trying to control than about the child's well-being.

                              I take my hat off to anyone who has kids because raising them looks like a minefield. My sister has a gorgeous little toddler who is impossible to manage cos' my sister doesn't want to be strict or impinge on the kid's development. She's reacting against her own excessively disciplinarian upbringing, but it's too far the other way.

                              What's the balance?

                              Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                              Just another example of the view of children as property.
                              Yip. Something to be molded into a shape they approve of. Some parents, not all.
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Louisa655 View Post
                                So here's a question for all the adults on this line of discussion:

                                It's Monday morning, and you have an interview at an organization that you are very excited about. ...
                                Is that analogous to anything you experienced as a child? Because it doesn't line up with anything I ever experienced.

                                I have to start with this: Harming someone (in any way, doesn't matter if it's physical or not) for failing to do something that wasn't understood before the request isn't punishment.

                                If I say, "Bring a copy of your resume or you will not be considered for the job," or even, "...or I'm going to slap you silly," that's one thing. You knew it was expected and you failed to meet expectations, so you got punished. If, on the other hand, I say, "Arrive for the interview at 9:30 AM and expect to spent all morning talking to people," and you do, but you didn't bring a resume (which I never asked for), it would be insane of me to slap you or even take you out of the pool of potential candidates. That's not saying a candidate with a copy of their resume wouldn't score higher (it might've been a "how prepared are you" test) but someone else doing better isn't the same as you being harmed.

                                Same if the smack is to a kid... if it wasn't understood it really isn't punishment. If the kid fully understood a rule and violated it (either knowingly, or, if it was a really important rule, through carelessness) then punishment of some sort could well make them a better person. For some kids, a smack is an effective punishment. It wouldn't be on my top 10 list but it wouldn't be Wrong either.
                                Last edited by Him; 02-11-2013, 03:37 PM.

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