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  • #16
    You can't simultaneously hit a child and teach him/her not to be a bully, unless that child is as big as you. Hitting children shows them that the people who are supposed to love them and keep them safe will also cause them pain. This is a particularly bad lesson to teach girls as they are usually the smaller adult in hetero couples when they become adults. As in: Daddy loved me and he hit me; hubby loves me and he hits me.

    If you hit another adult, they can have you arrested. If you hit an animal, the neighbors can have you arrested. This is not the case for children in most US states. Just another example of the view of children as property.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
      You can't simultaneously hit a child and teach him/her not to be a bully, unless that child is as big as you. Hitting children shows them that the people who are supposed to love them and keep them safe will also cause them pain. This is a particularly bad lesson to teach girls as they are usually the smaller adult in hetero couples when they become adults. As in: Daddy loved me and he hit me; hubby loves me and he hits me.

      If you hit another adult, they can have you arrested. If you hit an animal, the neighbors can have you arrested. This is not the case for children in most US states. Just another example of the view of children as property.
      Yes this.

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      • #18
        I got beat as a kid growing up in the 90's / 2000's (really, until I left home in my early 20's). You name it, got hit by it probably. Even got a few permanent reminders we wont get into

        My first (younger, I'm eldest) brother's got a few stories as well. Wild times!

        Pretty much only the mother who did the beatings. When I was a kid, my dad believed in the spanking, but stopped once we were probably older than 8 or 9. My mother, however, disfavored spankings in favor of body or head blows. Got the point across real fast.

        Reasons ranged from legitimate waking her up in the middle of a nap to just her feeling like you deserved it.

        Early on, I think it had a negative impact on my self esteem (more so getting it just because, rather than getting it because of something) but I'd say it's what lead me to being the person I am today (currently the most successful of four kids).

        Interestingly, my parent's philosophy on physical punishment changed over the years. Physical punishments were consistent for my first brother and I, but my younger two siblings hardly got much (I was born late 80's, first brother early 90's, younger two siblings mid to late 90's) - I guess it went out of style in the mid 90's? Not sure. In any case, the lack of some kind of punishment for legitimate wrongdoing has put my 2nd sibling into some dire straits. That's a whole different kettle of worm-fish. I think it probably would of done them some good, but you can't change the past.

        As to whether or not I will strike my kids, I can't quite say. I'm a fairly mild mannered person, and thinking about the idea kind of makes me feel queasy. My S.O. is against the idea. We don't have any offspring (another kettle of worm-fish), so I can't say exactly how I'm going to act. People change.

        In short: I can't say as a blanket statement that hitting your kids is going to help or harm. People respond to stimuli in different ways. I responded relatively well, but who's to say it wont drive some other kid off the deep end?

        M.

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        • #19
          What is the right amount of hitting?
          How much is enough? How much is too much?

          How will you know if too much is even occurring if the child is too scared of the adult to report the bruising and marks by then?

          Only children get disciplined in this manner???
          In many cultures it's completely acceptable for men to discipline their wives for their poor choices as well...
          Including American culture until very recently(and still in some parts of the country, rural/poor areas where a blind eye is still commonly turned to such things).
          Pandora's Box indeed.
          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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          • #20
            Ayla what about meat eating?
            "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

            Jack london, "Before Adam"

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            • #21
              I was rarely hit growing up and don't think spanking is a very effective teaching tool ( I have a 17 and 5 yo). However, the swat on the pants to get a kid's attention when they are about to do real harm makes the point when kids are too young to reason with effectively ( best done while the kid is in the act and it's more of a suprise than painfull). A smack on the hand that is reaching for a hot burner makes the word " hot" have a bit more meaning. Most kids will still need to touch that hot iron before they believe you, but they then wish they had headed the warning. Real life is not gentle. We can not pad the whole world to prevent our kids from experiencing it so it is our responsibility to teach them how to respect and succeed in it, and some of those lessons may very well be less than pleasant.

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              • #22
                there is a very large line, in my mind at least, between spanking and beating

                i am for spanking when kid is being a general turd

                i am against abuse. it turns on my rage switch
                beautiful
                yeah you are

                Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                lol

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                • #23
                  Everyone is entitled to their opinion and how they parent their children. This is just another topic that people won't agree on.
                  here's the rub of it really...

                  No, not everyone is entitled to their own opinion about parenting their children...Some people think that caging their child and hitting it with a firehose for fun is a valid parenting philosophy. Fuck them.

                  Also, your kids = people in my environment, and I have a right to meddle in their lives therefore, so as to minimize the chances of them climbing through my window and raping my wife at sharpened screwdriver-point.
                  "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                  Jack london, "Before Adam"

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                  • #24
                    I never got hit for the same thing twice, because after getting hit, I knew not to do it again. How many people can say that about a "time out"?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess View Post
                      I never got hit for the same thing twice, because after getting hit, I knew not to do it again. How many people can say that about a "time out"?
                      Or indeed, about horse whips?
                      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                      Griff's cholesterol primer
                      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                      bloodorchid is always right

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
                        Smacking for putting something in a power socket?
                        It is our responsibility as parents to make their environment safe so they can't hurt themselves while they are still too young to understand those kind of consequences.
                        There is no need to say no to them every 2 mins, if we make it so they can explore.
                        I have to roll my eyes at this. Thanks for the new flash.

                        It was impossible to make my DS's environment totally safe. DS figured out those plastic lock things for cabinets by the time he was 10 months old. I had to move everything remotely harmful to him to my laundry room, then a month later he figured out how to get past the baby gate blocking the laundry room. Not long after, I found him on the kitchen counter. I still have no idea how he got up there. I could not let the kid out of my site. Those outlet plugs weren't a challenge for him. I was constantly putting them back in. Fortunately, I was right there when he tried to put the fork in it.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess View Post
                          I never got hit for the same thing twice, because after getting hit, I knew not to do it again. How many people can say that about a "time out"?
                          This is where the whole "it depends on the child" thing comes into play.

                          Because there are other kids who could have been spanked, continue the behavior so that they got spanked for the same damn thing at least once a week... and all getting spanked did was teach them to hide things better, become better liars, or become more angry themselves and transfer that anger to other children and later other adults (i.e. become bullies).
                          It happens all the time.
                          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                          • #28
                            I remember getting spanked by my father when I was very young when I really misbehaved, but I don't think it was more than 2-3 times total during my childhood. My mother never hit me in any way, until one time when I was about 15 and she smacked my cheek for mouthing off to her. I think it took her by surprise as much as it took me by surprise, because she looked shocked and got teary-eyed and apologized as soon as she did it. I don't plan on hitting or spanking my children when I have them. I don't think my SO would ever dream of laying a hand on a child either, he's far too gentle. I personally think there are better ways to make a child understand that what they did/how they are acting is unacceptable.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                              This is where the whole "it depends on the child" thing comes into play.

                              Because there are other kids who could have been spanked, continue the behavior so that they got spanked for the same damn thing at least once a week... and all getting spanked did was teach them to hide things better, become better liars, or become more angry themselves and transfer that anger to other children and later other adults (i.e. become bullies).
                              It happens all the time.
                              I don't believe that "it depends on the child." It depends on the parent. If a parent hits and the lesson ends there, of course the deviant behavior can continue. If parenting were as easy as hitting=success or guilt=success, we would have a world full of successful, well adjusted adults. But there is more to it than that. We have parents that hit without remorse or love and parents that coddle and never teach independance.

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                              • #30
                                Kids respond differently. Situations are different too. I was very independent from a young age and my parents pretty much tried to lead vs. force. I remember one time, I must've been under 10 or so, I really upset my parents and my father was trying to figure out some way to punish me... the only thing he could come up with was, "Do it again and we'll take your books away." We just looked at each other for a few seconds and he got this, "I can't believe I actually said that," look on his face. We both just started laughing, but the "lesson" was conveyed. That isn't to say that I was never spanked, but spanking wasn't really an effective punishment for me.

                                That said...I think it's insane to think that a parent physically disciplining a child will teach that child that violence is a solution. Why? Because our physical reality, the animal world, life in general, teaches that violence is a solution. Even more, because violence IS a solution. A tree is growing somewhere you don't want? Cut it down. Rabbits eating your garden? Shoot and eat them. A man is coming at you with a knife? Shoot them. Japan bombs Pearl Harbor? You get the idea. Violence is ABSOLUTELY a solution.

                                Good parenting isn't about trying to hide things from kids, it's about teaching other, better, ways of living.

                                Violence is a solution, but it is very VERY rarely the best solution. I was brought up fairly well so 99.9999% of the time I have BETTER solutions than violence. I, like most reasonably sane people, prefer to use the best solution available. That doesn't mean when faced with the 0.0001% situation I won't use violence. If violence is the best solution, as it sometimes is, then you are a fool if you don't use violence.

                                When I was growing up I knew kids who didn't have other solutions. I remember one kid, he fell off his bicycle and proceeded to start picking it up and throwing it to the ground. It was his own bicycle, and it was just a machine - it couldn't be punished - but that's the only solution he had at that point. That kid's parents were failures, but it wasn't because they somehow taught him that violence was a solution. It was because they didn't teach him about other, better, solutions. I actually tried, even then... I remember telling him something like, "the bike doesn't feel anything, but your life will be worse if you break your bike," but by that point in his life it was probably too late to teach him better solutions.

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