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  • #46
    Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
    In all fairness the title of the thread does ask specifically for advice from other gentle/attachment parents... that pretty much sets up the conversation from the start, doesn't it?
    Exactly. So why re-characterize it in some other way?

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    • #47
      Hey, Ayla2010, I feel for you. It's heartbreaking to see your little one having a hard time. What is your son like in general? I ask because even thought my son was in daycare from 3 months, it was a very warm family environment until two and then a small, progressive preschool from 2-4. Even with all that "socialization", he was ill-prepared for public kindergarten. It wasn't really a bad public school, just more diverse behavior-wise than he was accustomed to. He was small, kind of pretty and very sweet-natured. I think he figured out very quickly that a more macho style was going to present more effectively. We had some issues with aggression and gravitating towards "bad" boys. I don't know if his 1st grade class was better or if he had a better handle on managing the boys, but things got much better that year. He was a model child until 16 and then it was a "bad" girl, lol. But at 21 he seems to be finding his way again. You have a lot of exciting years ahead of you!

      I can understand your reluctance to take away TV as a "punishment". Punishment should be the last resort of a parent who can't be more clever, IMO. Do you think he grasps the whole TV is pretend thing? That people watch things that are exciting, scary or naughty, even though they would never do what they see? If he gets that, you could frame it as TV is too much for you tonight if you couldn't be angry in your head and still control your behavior today.

      I guess I was lucky that the Simpsons was only on at 9pm when my son was little. I think that show is brilliant. I probably would have let him watch it because we never restricted TV at all. But if you think about Homer/Bart vs. Marge/Lisa, an overwhelming message in almost every show is that boys/men are stupid and can't be trusted to manage anything. I would be nervous about a steady diet of the Simpsons for any little boy. On the other hand, I know a lot of people think SpongeBob is a really stupid show and I loved that my son loved him. He is a devoted caretaker of his pet snail, Gary. He is a devoted and patient friend to the apparently mentally challenged, Patrick. He is a patient and affectionate neighbor to that pissy bitch, Squidward. And he's a reliable and respectful employee to the impossible Mr. Crabs. I love me some SpongeBob! My husband loves TV in general, so my kids are surely ruined!
      50yo, 5'3"
      SW-195
      CW-125, part calorie counting, part transition to primal
      GW- Goals are no longer weight-related

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      • #48
        Why does "action and consequence" have to equal "reward and punishment"?

        A consequence is not a punishment if you declare it up front and give them the opportunity to do the right thing and avoid the consequence. You explain, tell, model, guide them in what behaviors are acceptable, and let them know *firmly* what the consequence will be if they do or don't behave appropriately. And then you follow through.

        For gods sake, follow through. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to scream "just get to 3 already! I want to see that spanking you promised!"

        There's a mom at school with 4 kids under 6 who hollered across the playground "quit dragging your sister around by the hair or your getting a spanking!!!" Then turned to the circle of moms and said, "Oh I wouldn't really spank them. They don't even know what it means." 1. No relevant consequence. 2. No intention of follow through. Tell me how that teaches them appropriate behavior.
        Last edited by Sandra in BC; 02-11-2013, 06:34 PM.
        Sandra
        *My obligatory intro

        There are no cheat days. There are days when you eat primal and days you don't. As soon as you label a day a cheat day, you're on a diet. Don't be on a diet. ~~ Fernaldo

        DAINTY CAN KISS MY PRIMAL BACKSIDE. ~~ Crabcakes

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        • #49
          Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
          That wasn't what I got from her replies at all...
          What I got was that any sort of gentle advice was welcome... just no "spank them" type advice because that's not going to happen and that is not how she is going to parent her children.
          Which is just an honest boundary for her to be setting out really.
          Yes this.
          This is something new we are dealing with, its the second week of school. I know emotions may be high all over the place for all of them.
          I am just letting people know I don't want advice to punish. People who follow this method (I only named it so people would know what I meant, I don't normally call it anything). It has worked for us so far, and yes of course if it stops working I will re-think things. I still have not spoken to the teacher as she was late this morning, AGAIN!, so I will do it this afternoon.
          Children of this age are still learning their emotions. If he is hitting, its not to be malicious.

          Originally posted by NZ primal Gwamma View Post
          okay - so Gwamma is doing some thinking................IMO
          it is possibly irrelevent as to what disciplining methods a Parent uses (smacking, gentle etc... ) to teach our children about cause and effect, about actions and consequences. But it is our role as the Parent to pass on that actions have consequences and some of them are worse than others.
          These teaching have to be age appropriate.
          No point is saying to a new born baby - if you run across the road you might end up looking like that road kill.
          However a three year old child will understand that this could be a consequence of this action. ( if you stop and show him the roadkill)
          A new born baby learns that if it is hungry it cries - the consequence being it will be fed.
          Older children know that if you kill somebody and get caught - you will probably end up in jail.
          So as a parent we need to be able to pass on this wisdom without the child losing that ability to learn by its own mistakes.
          And we need to keep it age appropriate simple.
          What works for one family doesn't neccessarily work for another. What works for one child doesn't neccessarily work for another

          ..............sorry just the musing of an old Gwamma..............
          Yes thats right G. It has worked for us so far, and I will change if I need to. This is a new issue and we are working through it. If I need another approach then I will look into it.

          Originally posted by Sandra in BC View Post
          Got to be careful going there...I know a lot of parents who call themselves 'attachment' parents who are doing nothing of the sort.

          And as attached as I am to my kids, I wouldn't align myself with any parenting label, because no matter how closely you follow it, you'll only be noticed for the exceptions.

          There are lots of effective and loving parents here who don't call themselves 'attachment' that might have some good advice to offer.
          I only labelled it this, so I didnt get smacking advice or anything like that, thats all.

          Originally posted by Mud Flinger View Post
          I think what some people are trying to tell you is that the way you parent may be part if the problem. Saying that you want no other advice is like saying you want no advice. Please be open minded when reading the inputs here as there may be something that may work better for your kids.

          *edit: And I don't mean beating them!
          No, I don't believe it is part of the problem. The problem I have right now is not knowing the full story, due to the teacher just saying there was incidences. She hasn't actually said he hit another kid specifically, but she said the group of them were warned about keeping hands to themselves. So I guess I have actually assumed. I will know more this afternoon.

          Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
          She's not saying she wants no advice. She's saying she doesn't want to have an arguement with people who disagree with her approach.

          Those are two quite different things.
          Yes this. I am not interested in fighting. I am worn out about things the last few days, my diabetes diagnoses, and the school, and just the stress of being away from my son all day. I just wanted people who do things similar to me, to give me ideas I might have missed. Look for all I know my son is telling the truth and he is being annoyed. But I will find out later.

          Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
          So to recap for anyone not interested in reading 5 pages...

          the woman's kid is accused by his teacher of hitting other kids. The kid denies this except for one particular child that hits him first? Is that correct?
          Informing the situation is that the poster's child in question hits his own brother around the house when he is angered.

          lol what if the teacher is just maliciously lying, and continues to do so even after you express your anger with words?

          I imagine that you will pursue some form of violence against them (lawsuit, criminal prosecution, etc)
          What are you on about?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Sandra in BC View Post
            Why does "action and consequence" have to equal "reward and punishment"?

            A consequence is not a punishment if you declare it up front and give them the opportunity to do the right thing and avoid the consequence. You explain, tell, model, guide them in what behaviors are acceptable, and let them know *firmly* what the consequence will be if they do or don't behave appropriately. And then you follow through.

            For gods sake, follow through. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to scream "just get to 3 already! I want to see that spanking you promised!"

            There's a mom at school with 4 kids under 6 who hollered across the playground "quit dragging your sister around by the hair or your getting a spanking!!!" Then turned to the circle of moms and said, "Oh I wouldn't really spank them. They don't even know what it means." 1. No relevant consequence. 2. No intention of follow through. Tell me how that teaches them appropriate behavior.
            Yes this is what we do. We have always explained its not OK to hit ANYONE, if they do something to make you angry, you tell them what they are doing, and ask them to stop. If they hit you, its not OK to hit back. He needs to tell the teacher.

            I have found out from another mum today, that during lunch they are not under 100% supervision, there are teachers on duty, but they are allowed to play with the entire school, (up to year 6). So if things happen its likely to not be seen.

            If they keep doing something that they shouldn't be, then it requires distraction, usually when my oldest is really continually hurting his brother, its because his brother has taken something from him (he is 2.5 and doesn't understand sharing quite yet). So then we will talk about if there is something he doesn't want to share, then its OK, but we need to keep it away. At this age they are trying to learn their emotions, as it can be over whelming. Its not every day we have this happen, but it does happen occasionally, and is getting less frequent. There is always some emotion attached to it.
            Often its as simple as my oldest needing one on one time with me. Or even being hungry or tired. There is always a reason for "misbehaviour", its not just because they are "bad". Its up to me to work out what it is he needs and help him express that.

            Yes that is not going to work what that mother is doing, but I don't do that anyway.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by LauraSB View Post
              Hey, Ayla2010, I feel for you. It's heartbreaking to see your little one having a hard time. What is your son like in general? I ask because even thought my son was in daycare from 3 months, it was a very warm family environment until two and then a small, progressive preschool from 2-4. Even with all that "socialization", he was ill-prepared for public kindergarten. It wasn't really a bad public school, just more diverse behavior-wise than he was accustomed to. He was small, kind of pretty and very sweet-natured. I think he figured out very quickly that a more macho style was going to present more effectively. We had some issues with aggression and gravitating towards "bad" boys. I don't know if his 1st grade class was better or if he had a better handle on managing the boys, but things got much better that year. He was a model child until 16 and then it was a "bad" girl, lol. But at 21 he seems to be finding his way again. You have a lot of exciting years ahead of you!

              I can understand your reluctance to take away TV as a "punishment". Punishment should be the last resort of a parent who can't be more clever, IMO. Do you think he grasps the whole TV is pretend thing? That people watch things that are exciting, scary or naughty, even though they would never do what they see? If he gets that, you could frame it as TV is too much for you tonight if you couldn't be angry in your head and still control your behavior today.

              I guess I was lucky that the Simpsons was only on at 9pm when my son was little. I think that show is brilliant. I probably would have let him watch it because we never restricted TV at all. But if you think about Homer/Bart vs. Marge/Lisa, an overwhelming message in almost every show is that boys/men are stupid and can't be trusted to manage anything. I would be nervous about a steady diet of the Simpsons for any little boy. On the other hand, I know a lot of people think SpongeBob is a really stupid show and I loved that my son loved him. He is a devoted caretaker of his pet snail, Gary. He is a devoted and patient friend to the apparently mentally challenged, Patrick. He is a patient and affectionate neighbor to that pissy bitch, Squidward. And he's a reliable and respectful employee to the impossible Mr. Crabs. I love me some SpongeBob! My husband loves TV in general, so my kids are surely ruined!
              My son is so outgoing and confident. From 18 months he was very independent and at groups he would go off and play without looking back. When he went to pre-school 2011, first day he didn't look back. He never had any problems there, and would play with all of the kids, and there was no problem with hitting. It was only 2 days per week.
              He never went last year to pre-school, and he probably didn't get the socialisation he probably needed (considered homeschooling but there are not enough groups in the area for him to get enough), and I didn't have many friends with kids.
              He is generally the leader of a group, making up games or chatting with kids. Very happy.

              With the TV thing, I am not sure to be honest. I used the TV as a baby sitter pretty much when I was pregnant with his brother, as was exhausted and sick for a lot of it. Then it became a habit.
              I do think we have over used it, and this may be something to do with it.
              I was speaking to another mum today, and she said her son saw what happened yesterday, one boy jumped on my son who was sitting on the ground, then another jumped on top of him. This is what he was disciplined by another teacher for. I still don't know if the teacher saw (unlikely), or another kid told the teacher, which is why the 3 of them were told off. Now if this is the case, then that is wrong. My son probably didn't get a chance to explain he did nothing. That is not something I am happy with. But again I will find out later.
              Last edited by Ayla2010; 02-11-2013, 06:54 PM.

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              • #52
                Wow Ayla,
                This whole parenting thing at your house is pretty complicated. RULE #1 Teach your child to respect Authority by respecting authority-The teacher is always right even when they are wrong . RULE #2 If this is a recurring problem at home and at school assume your child is the problem And do what ever it takes to get it stopped by escalation, talking the first time is great, the second time the TV is gone, the third time add a time out for 15 minutes evey day for a week etc. Handle it now or deal with the police later on...
                Raise grass fed bison all natural. trying to gage this comunity to see if their is any intrest?

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                • #53
                  No, the school thing is new, and as I said I do not have the full story yet.
                  The hitting his brother is not everyday and I have explained that.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    And its not that complicated and works really well for everything so far.
                    This is not an on-going problem its new. And I am sure we will deal with it just the same as the other odd things that have come up.

                    I got the answers I need. I can't do anything else until I get clarification on everything, and will go from there.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      What are you on about?
                      I bet that she slaps people with the mailed fist of the State instead of her own, and thinks this moral and somehow not violent.
                      "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                      Jack london, "Before Adam"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Sorry I still don't understand what you are saying. Excuse me if I see dumb, but what???

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Let's say that your kids teacher is just straight lying. Maybe a kid in the class is her friend's nephew and he is bullying your son, and she is just lying because who gives a shit about your kid? Her friend is a pain in the ass.

                          So I'm saying, you'd probably call the cops, and ain't a bigger badder rape dick in town than the po right? It don't get harsher than pepper spray thugscrum suffocation and controlled clothing dungeon ritual domination, no?
                          "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                          Jack london, "Before Adam"

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            lol penal code
                            "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                            Jack london, "Before Adam"

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Umm kids hit because they lack the verbal skills to express themselves, they lack the ability to control impulses, they might not be able to reason fully, and they act feelings out instead of saying what they are feeling. Hopefully, as adults we have evolved enough to express ourselves, to control our impulses, and to reason. It is completely inappropriate for an adult to hit a child. Period. Hitting a child in response to their aggression makes no sense. Gee Johnny it's wrong to hit but I can hit you because um why because I am bigger and stronger than you. Geez. I thought we had evolved as a species far enough to understand that MAKES No Freaking sense. My child is 7 and has never been hit. There has never been reason to. There has never been a situation where I thought "hmm I could teach her how to act appropriately or I could smack her which would go the farthest?... why smacking of course." Never. I was raised in a family that believed in hitting and it taught me nothing good or useful. It hurt my relationship with my parents and it makes me struggle with the impulse to hit when angry. Gee that's helpful. My siblings followed my parents path but in my case the violence stopped with me. Thankfully, my daughter will never know the trauma of being hit by one of the two people in this world that are here to protect her. Unfortunately, she does witness me struggling to control my temper over stupid crap because of the way I was parented. Sigh.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Tod View Post
                                Wow Ayla,
                                This whole parenting thing at your house is pretty complicated. RULE #1 Teach your child to respect Authority by respecting authority-The teacher is always right even when they are wrong . RULE #2 If this is a recurring problem at home and at school assume your child is the problem And do what ever it takes to get it stopped by escalation, talking the first time is great, the second time the TV is gone, the third time add a time out for 15 minutes evey day for a week etc. Handle it now or deal with the police later on...
                                As a childless person, I've been keeping my nose out of this- but I have to say that the teacher (any authority figure) is NOT right if they are wrong. They should be given the benefit of the doubt, and respected initially, but if they are NOT right then they are NOT right and being in a position of authority does NOT grant them absolution for being wrong.

                                Respect authority, but expect authority to retain that respect by deserving it.
                                http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

                                Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

                                And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

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