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  • Originally posted by sakura_girl View Post
    For example, going back to the person who pushes the button every 10 minutes, who may seem to waste time. But at the same time, the time and energy that the person used to do the task was minimal, which creates a surplus for energy after work, when that person can use their creativity and physical energy on other endeavors once they get home. Even if it is only to do online shopping, which drives consumerism and helps to ramp the economy. Only someone with creative energy can make the choice to divert the (monetary) resources to something they enjoy and/or is creative anyway, and contributes to the system in a positive way. It ends up averaging out over time.
    The problem with redundant, mind-numbing tasks is that they tend to stifle creative energies not enhance them. You would think someone who sits in a chair all day would love to run around and exercise/play after work, but instead, most just sit on a couch and watch tv. The same is true for drudge work - you come home and veg because all creativity is beaten out of you.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by canio6 View Post
      The problem with redundant, mind-numbing tasks is that they tend to stifle creative energies not enhance them. You would think someone who sits in a chair all day would love to run around and exercise/play after work, but instead, most just sit on a couch and watch tv. The same is true for drudge work - you come home and veg because all creativity is beaten out of you.
      If they don't have a specific creative skill that they want to enhance the world with, then they used their creative energy to choose mind-numbing work and going home to do mind-numbing tasks. Choices are creative, too.
      My chocolatey Primal journey

      Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Rojo View Post
        I wouldn't describe this as "fighting". There's an old anarchist saw about freedom of speech. You stand on a street corner handing out flyers, nobody cares. If you gather a group of people to hand out flyers, the cops show up.

        Individualism is nothing in the face of power. That's why all the 2nd Amendment stuff about fighting off government tyranny is mostly blather. That's no threat to the government. If the authorities came to your house, all your NRA card-holder neighbors wouldn't lift a finger.

        Spout on the internet, polish an AR-15 in your basement, grew your own green beans, stockpile rice and gold bars -- it won't change a thing. Never has.
        With all the political talk about gun bans maybe we should ban guns from democrats

        http://polination.files.wordpress.co...wning-guns.jpg

        ban-democrats-from-owning-guns.jpg
        Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

        Comment


        • I had no interest in politics several months prior, and I only have a few years of business acumen. So I'd appreciate any thoughts on ripping apart my logic here
          Mm I love it when they talk dirty...lol Perfidy'll rip that whole thing down honey, felonious like. Since you asked so nicely.

          This thread was definitely a joy to read, having seen big-picture opinions on what others think should be of our government.
          did you note the commonality and disparity? It seems like primal people in general share a suspicion of centralized power, and the ones who do not are essentially testifying that around them, people will not go hungry or fear for their safety.

          While I haven't talked much or read up on many things related to politics, it seems to me that whatever government we have at the moment is the most efficient that we can get,
          lol perhaps. The goal of government is to dominate human behavior with fear of force, and it does seem to be doing this quite well. In any given week I can point to a personal friend who has suffered some degree of financial or physical harm as a result of impositions of the State.

          I think that you should look into that Austrian school stuff some other posters were repping- it seems to be the Economics of the future intelligent people.

          That being said, where do you travel and among whom do you move that you see efficiency of government? I am assuming that you do not mean Efficient as I do, and mean to say that government maintains general welfare as effectively as it can be maintained, which is to say, are just wrong. Haha sorry- I can't walk ten paces in any direction without running into someone getting fucked over, denied, forbidden, or cut off, except if I find someone gaming the system and nakedly abusing public money with fraud.

          given our technology, access to resources, culture, etc. etc. I think humans are amazingly adaptable and can be efficient at everything, even if it doesn't seem so on the surface.
          are you a virgin or something? lol I never would have imagined hearing a girl mention "efficiency" so many times...Why is it important that we are efficient? When we lived primitively as aboriginal atavistic chimpanzee cannabis initiates, we accomplished very little in the realm of measurable development of systems. We were efficient enough to fill our bellies and keep warm while we slept and probably to trade with our mates baubles and tokens of our esteem and ability. We danced and got high and shit. Why would efficiency be a priority that supercedes contentment or harmony or something with more intrinsic value to the senses and psyche?

          haha fuck the economy and fuck the production of conventional commodity toxicity and shocks to our biology and clocks and profit and automated robotic petroleum entire planetary sodomy and industry and hierarchy propped up by electronic hypnotic pop lobotomy. Man is not a unit of production and the word "human resources" should register as disgusting.

          For example, going back to the person who pushes the button every 10 minutes, who may seem to waste time. But at the same time, the time and energy that the person used to do the task was minimal, which creates a surplus for energy after work, when that person can use their creativity and physical energy on other endeavors once they get home. Even if it is only to do online shopping, which drives consumerism and helps to ramp the economy. Only someone with creative energy can make the choice to divert the (monetary) resources to something they enjoy and/or is creative anyway, and contributes to the system in a positive way. It ends up averaging out over time.
          you know that not a single government worker does anything that anyone asked for, right? A lot of dependents demanded a share of some spoils, but no one approached a government service and said, "Hey ya know what? You are the best game in town- let me be your customer." They literally physically point guns at you and extract the taxes that fund their pensions and you are defending this activity as a benefit to society, like the fact that the piece of shit welfare fraud clerk sadist nasty piece of shit down the street having time to "drive consumerism" by buying things that my wife can't afford despite hard work is somehow something that enriches me.

          My idea is that our technology isn't advanced enough. It isn't good enough to automate everything, which would lead to an optimal, efficient system. If everything was automated, everybody would have the right information suited to themselves, which would help them make more focused, efficient decisions over the course of their lifetime. Instead, you have low-wage workers, who only know to appeal to the government in case things go sideways, which is obviously inefficient. We need to make our system efficient, since we as people are efficient operating in an inefficient system.
          lol

          efficiency is a synonym for tight fisted restricted frigid clitoral limits and a diminishing inhibited primitive illness that manifests as sadistic controlling impositions on individual decisions. How many peanuts I can shell in an hour ain't shit to you- I never said that I would help you with shit, I never heard you promise me anything, and it is wrong for either of us to expect the other to behave according to what is good for ourselves, and disregard their own motivations and goals.

          Over time, I think technology will definitely advance to a stage where we can operate in the society that you describe, Him. But up until then, we are stuck in this inefficient system, and those who are knowledgable can only try to accelerate the process to achieve that efficiency. So the only thing to do is allow life to move on, and if you are really passionate and knowledgable about something, go exert influence in that sphere, and maybe it'll help our system become efficient a little faster.
          ok I am going to bite already...lol.

          What is this goal for which "our" system must work so efficiently? How can a system do anything, actually? "System" is a construct of the human mind- a label that we apply to tangible actors and living specimens among us in the natural and sensable world. It is not an entity- it makes no decisions, has no brain or heart or blood or body- it doesn't hug or protect or feed or do anything that you seem to be alluding to. People do those things, in whose mind is this word and construct called "system," which then aligns their behavior with its coded assumptions and demands.

          I don't wanna go to Mars- I don't give a fuck about infrastructure and I'd rather people live in the wild prairie with a total absence of factory farming and sedentary consumption- that is my idea of efficient nutritional and fitness production, but there's no money to be won and no control in it and if we mumble demands for it we are bludgeoned with truncheons so fuck all of it. Myself I am done with it and want nothing to do with the system's corruption.

          But I am just a naive lady in her early twenties,
          haha why I was gentle baby.
          "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

          Jack london, "Before Adam"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Scott F View Post
            With all the political talk about gun bans maybe we should ban guns from democrats

            http://polination.files.wordpress.co...wning-guns.jpg

            [ATTACH=CONFIG]10552[/ATTACH]
            LOL, yes, I'd seen that.
            "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

            Comment


            • Paleo hasn't affected my politics, more the other way around, really. Ever since high school I've been becoming much more libertarian/minarchist. (I don't think there should be no government, but it should be minute, with most of the power in the individual, then local governments, and then radiate out from there). My beliefs began pulling me towards local and sustainable food and other products for awhile now and then I stumbled upon Cordain's book. We need much less government.

              I highly recommend everyone watch John Stossel's "Illegal Everything". Just search Youtube. Quite honesty, while not everyone may agree with the drug or prostitution beliefs, even if you love government, if you can watch that video without going "We have gone way to far", you are either very mentally damaged or a politician...but I repeat myself. (props to Twain!)

              We need a revamp of America's political system, big time...it honestly worries me, unless we have a real change towards more personal liberty, personal responsibility, personal reliance, and small and limited government, I really believe our government is just going to become more and more repressive and tyrannical; there are already to many similarities between our government and 1984 to make me feel comfortable....

              "Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him, out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others."
              -Thomas Paine

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                The roots of government-subsidized HFCS lay in late 18th century England with the Enclosure Acts. Common lands that once fed commoners with a variety of staple foods were appropriated, consolidated and turned into grain export machines.
                This is key to understanding how we got to the problems of today.

                Why were the Enclosure Acts enacted? The common land was too crowded...

                Though I'm not religious, I imagine the garden of eden fable, and the "evil apple" story simply represents the start of agriculture.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by goneprimal View Post
                  This is key to understanding how we got to the problems of today.

                  Why were the Enclosure Acts enacted? The common land was too crowded...

                  Though I'm not religious, I imagine the garden of eden fable, and the "evil apple" story simply represents the start of agriculture.
                  I've thought the same thing. The story of Adam and Eve and the Fall could a story telling memory of humans having to make a hardship transition from the Ice Age Paleolithic into the climate changed Neolithic. We tend to think of the Ice Age as being a time of hardship but at its end a lot of the prey humans relied upon died out and they were force to fall back onto their survival foods such as grains.
                  Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                    Mm I love it when they talk dirty...lol Perfidy'll rip that whole thing down honey, felonious like. Since you asked so nicely.



                    did you note the commonality and disparity? It seems like primal people in general share a suspicion of centralized power, and the ones who do not are essentially testifying that around them, people will not go hungry or fear for their safety.



                    lol perhaps. The goal of government is to dominate human behavior with fear of force, and it does seem to be doing this quite well. In any given week I can point to a personal friend who has suffered some degree of financial or physical harm as a result of impositions of the State.

                    I think that you should look into that Austrian school stuff some other posters were repping- it seems to be the Economics of the future intelligent people.

                    That being said, where do you travel and among whom do you move that you see efficiency of government? I am assuming that you do not mean Efficient as I do, and mean to say that government maintains general welfare as effectively as it can be maintained, which is to say, are just wrong. Haha sorry- I can't walk ten paces in any direction without running into someone getting fucked over, denied, forbidden, or cut off, except if I find someone gaming the system and nakedly abusing public money with fraud.



                    are you a virgin or something? lol I never would have imagined hearing a girl mention "efficiency" so many times...Why is it important that we are efficient? When we lived primitively as aboriginal atavistic chimpanzee cannabis initiates, we accomplished very little in the realm of measurable development of systems. We were efficient enough to fill our bellies and keep warm while we slept and probably to trade with our mates baubles and tokens of our esteem and ability. We danced and got high and shit. Why would efficiency be a priority that supercedes contentment or harmony or something with more intrinsic value to the senses and psyche?

                    haha fuck the economy and fuck the production of conventional commodity toxicity and shocks to our biology and clocks and profit and automated robotic petroleum entire planetary sodomy and industry and hierarchy propped up by electronic hypnotic pop lobotomy. Man is not a unit of production and the word "human resources" should register as disgusting.



                    you know that not a single government worker does anything that anyone asked for, right? A lot of dependents demanded a share of some spoils, but no one approached a government service and said, "Hey ya know what? You are the best game in town- let me be your customer." They literally physically point guns at you and extract the taxes that fund their pensions and you are defending this activity as a benefit to society, like the fact that the piece of shit welfare fraud clerk sadist nasty piece of shit down the street having time to "drive consumerism" by buying things that my wife can't afford despite hard work is somehow something that enriches me.



                    lol

                    efficiency is a synonym for tight fisted restricted frigid clitoral limits and a diminishing inhibited primitive illness that manifests as sadistic controlling impositions on individual decisions. How many peanuts I can shell in an hour ain't shit to you- I never said that I would help you with shit, I never heard you promise me anything, and it is wrong for either of us to expect the other to behave according to what is good for ourselves, and disregard their own motivations and goals.



                    ok I am going to bite already...lol.

                    What is this goal for which "our" system must work so efficiently? How can a system do anything, actually? "System" is a construct of the human mind- a label that we apply to tangible actors and living specimens among us in the natural and sensable world. It is not an entity- it makes no decisions, has no brain or heart or blood or body- it doesn't hug or protect or feed or do anything that you seem to be alluding to. People do those things, in whose mind is this word and construct called "system," which then aligns their behavior with its coded assumptions and demands.

                    I don't wanna go to Mars- I don't give a fuck about infrastructure and I'd rather people live in the wild prairie with a total absence of factory farming and sedentary consumption- that is my idea of efficient nutritional and fitness production, but there's no money to be won and no control in it and if we mumble demands for it we are bludgeoned with truncheons so fuck all of it. Myself I am done with it and want nothing to do with the system's corruption.



                    haha why I was gentle baby.
                    Thank you Mr. Perfidy
                    "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                      I think that you should look into that Austrian school stuff some other posters were repping- it seems to be the Economics of the future intelligent people.
                      Oooo, read the wikipedia page and it has piqued my interest. Thank you for that suggestion

                      Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                      That being said, where do you travel and among whom do you move that you see efficiency of government? I am assuming that you do not mean Efficient as I do, and mean to say that government maintains general welfare as effectively as it can be maintained, which is to say, are just wrong. Haha sorry- I can't walk ten paces in any direction without running into someone getting fucked over, denied, forbidden, or cut off, except if I find someone gaming the system and nakedly abusing public money with fraud.
                      Never did I say that government was efficient. I stated that humans are good at being efficient, and that we are just operating under an inefficient government system. We make changes gradually that make the government system more efficient, but I believe that advancement of technology must play a role in that.

                      Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                      are you a virgin or something? lol I never would have imagined hearing a girl mention "efficiency" so many times...Why is it important that we are efficient? When we lived primitively as aboriginal atavistic chimpanzee cannabis initiates, we accomplished very little in the realm of measurable development of systems. We were efficient enough to fill our bellies and keep warm while we slept and probably to trade with our mates baubles and tokens of our esteem and ability. We danced and got high and shit. Why would efficiency be a priority that supercedes contentment or harmony or something with more intrinsic value to the senses and psyche?
                      Efficiency isn't a priority - it's embedded in our nature. It's embedded in nature, period. Because once we do an action, there will be something else in the system to balance it. And that is very efficient.

                      Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                      haha fuck the economy and fuck the production of conventional commodity toxicity and shocks to our biology and clocks and profit and automated robotic petroleum entire planetary sodomy and industry and hierarchy propped up by electronic hypnotic pop lobotomy. Man is not a unit of production and the word "human resources" should register as disgusting.
                      No, you wouldn't want to think it like that. But in the big picture, it's true. He is a unit of production, and is valuable to others just as he finds value in others. He can be happy and sad and everything that goes with emotional well-being. But in the end, that's what man really is.

                      Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                      you know that not a single government worker does anything that anyone asked for, right? A lot of dependents demanded a share of some spoils, but no one approached a government service and said, "Hey ya know what? You are the best game in town- let me be your customer." They literally physically point guns at you and extract the taxes that fund their pensions and you are defending this activity as a benefit to society, like the fact that the piece of shit welfare fraud clerk sadist nasty piece of shit down the street having time to "drive consumerism" by buying things that my wife can't afford despite hard work is somehow something that enriches me.
                      So, there is basically someone who doesn't value something as much as you. So, what? Doesn't that just mean that you will be satisfied with less, and basically will be hurt less by anything that hits you because you are easily satisfied? I'm not saying that it's an ideal situation to be, emotionally, to not be able to make as much money as someone who is immoral or less capable at a certain skill as you. But it balances. They will be hit harder when times get rough, just like they benefit more when times are good.


                      Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                      ok I am going to bite already...lol.

                      What is this goal for which "our" system must work so efficiently? How can a system do anything, actually? "System" is a construct of the human mind- a label that we apply to tangible actors and living specimens among us in the natural and sensable world. It is not an entity- it makes no decisions, has no brain or heart or blood or body- it doesn't hug or protect or feed or do anything that you seem to be alluding to. People do those things, in whose mind is this word and construct called "system," which then aligns their behavior with its coded assumptions and demands.
                      True, but I don't know how else to describe it. The world in which we live in is a system, with all the intangible interlinked connections, interlinked resources, means of production, etc. And right now it's inefficient.

                      Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
                      haha why I was gentle baby.
                      Thank you
                      My chocolatey Primal journey

                      Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by goneprimal View Post
                        Why were the Enclosure Acts enacted? The common land was too crowded...
                        They were enacted to raise more money.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by sakura_girl View Post
                          Oooo, read the wikipedia page and it has piqued my interest. Thank you for that suggestion
                          Murray Rothbard is real good too, like his language is plain and grasp of the deeper issues is evident in even the lighter commentary.

                          But I should say in fairness that I have a lot of issues with the "free-market" crowd and regularly engage in flame warfare on forums with their many boring conformist ayn rand wanna-be protestant-ethic obsolete prophets.



                          Never did I say that government was efficient. I stated that humans are good at being efficient, and that we are just operating under an inefficient government system. We make changes gradually that make the government system more efficient, but I believe that advancement of technology must play a role in that.
                          I thought that you said, "but this system seems to be the most efficent now," or something to that effect.

                          I wouldn't argue that we are bad at efficiency, but would add that government exists to limit that tendency.

                          Efficiency isn't a priority - it's embedded in our nature. It's embedded in nature, period. Because once we do an action, there will be something else in the system to balance it. And that is very efficient.
                          Really? I think that we move toward INstability and IMbalance with action- when a father smacks a kid, that kid goes to school and smacks a class-mate, who goes home and smacks his dog, whose mother smacks his father. lol The first smacked kid doesn't go out and hug a cripple or protect the gay kid at school or some shit.


                          No, you wouldn't want to think it like that. But in the big picture, it's true. He is a unit of production, and is valuable to others just as he finds value in others. He can be happy and sad and everything that goes with emotional well-being. But in the end, that's what man really is.
                          a unit of production? lol

                          We the final product baby.

                          So, there is basically someone who doesn't value something as much as you. So, what? Doesn't that just mean that you will be satisfied with less, and basically will be hurt less by anything that hits you because you are easily satisfied?
                          ...


                          uhhh no. LOL that's how you took it? No it means that I have to tell my wife, "Sue gets to go on vacation because she is good at lying and stealing money, and has no job consequently. You have to get back to work baby." Fuck sue- if I honestly thought that I could succeed in doing so, I'd get on a dirt bike and murder everyone like her until I came to the shores at the end of the continent.

                          I'm not saying that it's an ideal situation to be, emotionally, to not be able to make as much money as someone who is immoral or less capable at a certain skill as you. But it balances. They will be hit harder when times get rough, just like they benefit more when times are good.
                          no when times are tough the government and its parasite attachments get fatter.

                          True, but I don't know how else to describe it. The world in which we live in is a system, with all the intangible interlinked connections, interlinked resources, means of production, etc. And right now it's inefficient.
                          no- the world just is. I thought you were into Asian traditions...lol What about Lao Tsu? Siddhartha? "System" is how your ego makes sense of what is happening around you.
                          "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                          Jack london, "Before Adam"

                          Comment


                          • I have found that the Paleo way is very compatible with a liberty-minded-Ron-Paul-damn-the-man kind of attitude...

                            My kind of people. Heck, even over at Ron Paul Forums, there is a thread on Paleo... One of the greatest minds in Libertarian circles, namely Tom Woods, just went Paleo!
                            Re-Starting Paleo January 10, 2013

                            SW - 185.4 lbs Janury 10, 2013
                            CW- 179.8 lbs
                            Goal- 168 lbs Full Performance Level PBF, 32" waist, lean...

                            MY PALEO JOURNAL

                            "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity."
                            ~ Abraham Lincoln

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by jllundqu View Post
                              I have found that the Paleo way is very compatible with a liberty-minded-Ron-Paul-damn-the-man kind of attitude...
                              Occupy is "damn-the-man". Paulista's are radical-chic Republicans.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                                Occupy is "damn-the-man". Paulista's are radical-chic Republicans.
                                That is a false & misleading statement
                                Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                                Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                                Current Weight: 235 pounds
                                Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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