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  • #31
    Ok, before I ask this question, I'm just going to say it: I'm ignorant - which is why I'm going to ask this question.

    Aren't there some studies that show that undereating/eating low calories has a positive impact on longevity? Is that congruent with low calorie diets increasing stress/cortisol?
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by cobalamin View Post
      Can I see the PROOF that our gut size reduced in size? Do you have the intestines of an early Hominini?

      Its more likely that our gut size has been shorter all along and this limited physical feeding niche pushed us indirectly to survive.

      A lot of woo woo and no concrete scientific evidence.
      Your post seems to imply that I can't possibly prove that.

      Here you go: Effects of Brain Evolution on Human Nutrition and Metabolism
      Large brains are energetically expensive, and humans expend a larger proportion of their energy budget on brain metabolism than other primates. The high costs of large human brains are supported, in part, by our energy- and nutrient-rich diets. Among primates, relative brain size is positively correlated with dietary quality, and humans fall at the positive end of this relationship. Consistent with an adaptation to a high-quality diet, humans have relatively small gastrointestinal tracts.
      This is called the Expensive Tissue Hypothesis.
      Last edited by magicmerl; 01-16-2013, 01:26 PM.
      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

      Griff's cholesterol primer
      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
      bloodorchid is always right

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      • #33
        The Vegetarian Myth - YouTube

        Look at the nonsense she says.

        -agreed about agriculture and processed foods.
        -she has no idea what plant cell walls are made of. ruminants can't digest whole plant vegetation either.
        -"Insulin is an emergency response?" if eating grains, not fruit. Insulin is one of the body's most anabolic muscle-building hormones, while cortisol/glucagon are catabolic hormones.
        -"we need fat to absorb minerals." sure. if your bile is lacking Vitamin D and other bile acids(fat). she doesn't state that Vitamin D is made by UVB radiation of the skin and there isn't enough Vitamin D in foods to fulfill our requirements.
        -sure we can eat organ meats however is there enough to supply demand? and fulfill everyone's needs for vitamin A and K?

        She says... Humans don't need carbs = ketosis = carnivore. Meat is the only food without carbs.

        I care about the truth. Nothing else.
        Last edited by cobalamin; 01-16-2013, 01:12 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by cobalamin View Post
          She says... Humans don't need carbs = ketosis = carnivore. Meat is the only food without carbs.
          I agree that it's as ridiculous to say that humans are carnivores as it is to say that we are herbivores.

          Edit: You asked for scientific 'evidence'. Care to comment on the journal articles I posted?

          Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
          Ok, before I ask this question, I'm just going to say it: I'm ignorant - which is why I'm going to ask this question.

          Aren't there some studies that show that undereating/eating low calories has a positive impact on longevity? Is that congruent with low calorie diets increasing stress/cortisol?
          There were, but they were effectively rebutted by much more credible research on Rhesus monkeys (the previous research suggesting longevity could be increased by calorie restriction was done on rodents). That's why all the gurus have gone as quiet as a mouse on that one.
          Last edited by magicmerl; 01-16-2013, 01:52 PM.
          Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

          Griff's cholesterol primer
          5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
          Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
          TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
          bloodorchid is always right

          Comment


          • #35
            Actual link to the PDF article. www.pinniped.net/LeonardARN.pdf

            Our brains use 500kcals per day. Not really a huge amount of calories.

            Its not facts what is written in that article. The article is based on assumptions without any evidence what-so-ever.

            If our guts were longer... why didn't we keep eating leaves?

            Do you actually believe we evolved from a common ancestor?

            Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
            I agree that it's as ridiculous to say that humans are carnivores as it is to say that we are herbivores.
            Agreed.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by cobalamin View Post
              Our brains use 500kcals per day. Not really a huge amount of calories.
              Uh, how many calories a day total do you eat, approximately?

              Originally posted by cobalamin View Post
              If our guts were longer... why didn't we keep eating leaves?
              We could have? But it turns out that it's hell inefficient to eat leaves all day when we can eat a little bit of meat or some starchy tubers in much more energy dense form.

              Originally posted by cobalamin View Post
              Do you actually believe we evolved from a common ancestor?
              Are you asking if I believe in evolution? If so, my answer is yes.
              Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

              Griff's cholesterol primer
              5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
              Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
              TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
              bloodorchid is always right

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                Talk about ignorant, cobalamin. Lierre Keith doesn't say we are carnivores nor does she say we are supposed to be in ketosis at all times. She simply says that life flows from other life, there can be no way of eating that doesn't require killing and to chase that imaginary belief means that more living beings, and indeed entire ecosystems, will have to die for your soy flakes than ever would have been killed for your bacon and eggs. To even believe you can voluntarily step out of the cycle of life is an exercise in insanity and hubris. To find the most ethical place in the cycle of life is to seek out what our evolutionary diet is, as that is the portion of the cycle of life where we are meant to be to do the least damage and make the proper contribution we were intended to make in the fecundity of the earth.
                *applause*

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by cobalamin View Post
                  How much meat do you have to eat daily?

                  How long is the prolonged state?

                  Can I see pictures of someone that has followed ketosis for 3+ months without carb intake, is muscular and hasn't injected themselves with hormones?
                  So you have questions rather than refuting the facts....thats good. Now go google you some answers.
                  Last edited by Neckhammer; 01-16-2013, 08:06 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Thank you magicmerl.

                    Another question for those who know. Even the vegetarian/vegan websites I've visited admit that to get all the nutrients needed, vegans have to take supplements. Wouldn't that in and of itself prove that veganism just isn't optimum as far as health is concerned?
                    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                    B*tch-lite

                    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                      Thank you magicmerl.

                      Another question for those who know. Even the vegetarian/vegan websites I've visited admit that to get all the nutrients needed, vegans have to take supplements. Wouldn't that in and of itself prove that veganism just isn't optimum as far as health is concerned?
                      How many primal people take supplements?
                      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                      Griff's cholesterol primer
                      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                      bloodorchid is always right

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Vegan is healthy though...compared to SAD. I don't have a problem with vegans until they try and tell me its the optimal diet, or that its morally right.
                        http://lifemutt.blogspot.sg/ - Gaming, Food Reviews and Life in Singapore

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                        • #42
                          A chap said the other day in the office "how do you know if a person is a Vegitarian?" Answer "They will ferkin tell you!"

                          Its not being a vegie or vegan that's the problem its the banging on about it all the time that winds folk up
                          Caution! My replies may contain traces of nuts!. My posts are just my opinion based on my experience with the primal way of life, there is no assurance it will work with others in the same way.

                          Started Primal 15th October 2012
                          Height 5'9"
                          Start weight 200lb
                          Loss so far 33.8lbs, now 166.2lb
                          Goal was 168lb's

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                          • #43
                            from the vegans etc that I know, the optimal human diet argument does not seem to be their primary goal, health is secondary to moral issues. We care about health then the morality but they seem to have it the other way about. I may be generalizing here and as I dont know all the vegans out there I may be wrong but it seems to me they are willing to sacrifice their health long term to live what they see as a moral life.

                            Not all of them mind you, some really got into it for health but most of the young fired up activist types that go at it hard and fast seem more concerned about ethics and environmentalism than their health. Then they get older and calm down and I bet frequently start to get less happy with how they feel. Hopefully before they have done permanent damage as Lierre Keith did.
                            Primal since April 2012 Male 6' 3" SW 345lbs CW 240lbs GW 220lbs and when I get there I am getting a utlikilt. This one http://www.utilikilts.com/company/pr...ilts/workmans/ actually.

                            Join me at www.paleoplanet.net, where all the cavemen hang out.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                              How many primal people take supplements?
                              I get that. But there's some vitamin, B12 maybe? that vegans can't get naturally. I think if someone really did primal 100%, they wouldn't lack in anything. The supplement industry is huge, and I'm sure there are many people who take supplements unnecessarily.
                              --------------

                              As far as ethics are concerned, the way Big Food produces beef and soy both pretty much show what shitty stewards we are to this planet. Though I have to admit, soy most likely doesn't suffer, whereas mistreated cattle do. In the end though, I don't think humans eating animals is any more unethical than wolves eating animals. It's what we're wired to do.
                              "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                              B*tch-lite

                              Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Quinoa. Because the suffering of animals is more upsetting than the suffering of humans. Especially brown humans.

                                Can vegans stomach the unpalatable truth about quinoa? | Joanna Blythman | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
                                No disease that can be treated by diet should be treated with any other means.
                                -Maimonodies

                                The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea.

                                Babes with BBQ

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