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Why do so many folks not Vaccinate their kids?

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  • Why do so many folks not Vaccinate their kids?

    Heya, I have seen this a lot of late and I have to wonder why? Seems to me giving your kids protection from diseases is a good thing. My dad had polio as a kid and no way do I want to risk that with the kids.

    I have heard that vaccinations cause Autism, which everything I have read says is a load of bulldookey.

    My question is why would you not vaccinate your halflings?
    Primal since April 2012 Male 6' 3" SW 345lbs CW 240lbs GW 220lbs and when I get there I am getting a utlikilt. This one http://www.utilikilts.com/company/pr...ilts/workmans/ actually.

    Join me at www.paleoplanet.net, where all the cavemen hang out.

  • #2
    Some reasons: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread72523.html
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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    • #3
      I find this topic interesting and a bit infuriating as well. I think people who do not vaccinate their children are being irresponsible to the rest of society. Grrr.....

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Warmbear View Post
        Heya, I have seen this a lot of late and I have to wonder why? Seems to me giving your kids protection from diseases is a good thing. My dad had polio as a kid and no way do I want to risk that with the kids.

        I have heard that vaccinations cause Autism, which everything I have read says is a load of bulldookey.

        My question is why would you not vaccinate your halflings?
        I have a child with regressive Autism. He was born seemingly fine. Baby book has entries like "My most social child" and "What a happy, healthy baby boy."

        About 1 week after his 6 month shots he stopped rolling from his back to his belly. Stuck like a turtle, and didn't relearn (with difficulty) until close to a year old. He also developed fairly significant reflux during this time.

        About a week after his 12 month shots he stopped learning new words. He was an early talker. At 10 months he used his first word appropriatetly: "off" when playing with a lamp switch. His language then turned into learning a new word but dropping the other word he had just learned.

        He then had his 15 month shots late and his 18 month shots early due to an illness and travel plans. Within 3 weeks he was 'gone'. We thought he had lost his hearing. We spent his second Christmas piling his presents around him without any response.

        Now, all of this is purely anecdotal, but either this disorder has an eerie pattern of developing at the same time vaccines are given or vaccines play a role. I believe the latter. We never got the horrible fevers and high pitched screaming that some report after the shots; just a sinister quiet removal of skills that doctors lovingly refer to as 'soft neurological signs'. I think some people have a genetic make-up or pre-existing exposure to chemicals/toxins that put them at risk of developing neurological problems from the ingredients in vaccines or that they have an inappropriate immune response. Families with a history of auto-immune disorders have a higher incidence of children on the spectrum.

        Some children seem to be born with Autism. More and more, we are seeing children like mine that are 'taken' later in their toddler years.

        Vaccinating is still a personal family decision. My husband is an MD and is forcing the issue to vaccinate my kids after 10 years of not doing so. It is causing a huge rift in my marriage. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But, in the meantime, my now almost 12 year old son on the spectrum has made tremendous strides and my older two are happy and healthy and have not contracted a single disease for which they were supposed to have been vaccinated. Luckily, I live in a state that allows a philosophical exemption from mandated shots. For me it is just as easy as signing a waiver.

        I don't know if it is actually true, but I believe the only incidence of polio in the US for years has been contracting it from the vaccine itself.

        My last rant: how in the hell can we expect someone with an immature immune system (infants) to have an appropriate immune response to a vaccine? Let's go back to the old vaccine schedule and not vaccinate until children are 2 years old unless there is real risk due to environment or parent lifestyle. And then let's space them out several months at a time and NOT use the magic 5 combo vaccines. There is no science behind combining vaccines and also no science behind the current vaccine schedule. It is purely based on the fact that doctors know we bring our kids in regularly as infants to watch them grow and they vaccinate then out of convenience.
        sigpic
        Age 48
        Start date: 7-5-12
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        "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
        Henri Frederic Amiel

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        • #5
          I don't have kids yet, and haven't completely decided about it, but here are some of my concerns:
          My wife has a history of reactions to vaccines. She has terrible skin allergies that started when she got a certain anthrax series in the Army. Her allergies include thimerosal, and many other preservatives and chemicals such as parabens. She can't even use most "organic" liquid soaps. Her father had similar chemical reactions, as well as a young niece. One of her nephews was hospitalized recently because of a vaccination.

          I remember seeing a Japanese study from some years ago that showed vitamin D was more effective in preventing the flu in children than the vaccine. This link has a bit more: Vitamin D Council > Health conditions > Infections and autoimmunity > Influenza

          I understand how vaccines work on a basic level, but I've never found a good explanation of why the flu vaccines in consecutive years can be the same, yet you are still supposed to get it a second time. (This happened just a few years ago- 2010-11, I think.)

          Finally, a lot of doctors encourage new babies to get vaccines within six months. However, their immune systems are not actually up to snuff until six months, so they cannot produce the antibody responses that a child or adult could. You put the deactivated virus in, but the only antibodies the baby has are from the mother/breastmilk. If the baby can't produce the necessary response, what is the point?

          In truth, my wife is far better educated on this, having worked in healthcare for years, managing a hospital lab for at least a few. I'll probably go with whichever decision she lays out. She's not anti-vaccine, just concerned about her family and personal reactions being passed on to our kids. At this point there is cost/benefit ratio for us to look at that seems a bit more clear than most people's.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by palebluedots View Post
            I find this topic interesting and a bit infuriating as well. I think people who do not vaccinate their children are being irresponsible to the rest of society. Grrr.....
            Walk in my shoes for a few weeks before you make such sweeping statements. I am not telling you to not vaccinate your children, but I am telling you I am not going to vaccinate mine anymore because of my experience with vaccines. Vaccines are known to damage. There is an entire Vaccine Injury Compensation Program run by the government to dole out money to those injured by vaccines. We need to get smart about how and who we vaccinate.

            I know quite a few people/children who cannot be vaccinated for certain diseases due to egg allergy, bakers yeast allergy, gelatin allergy or thimerosal allergy or that have had a negative reaction to a vaccine in the past and have been advised (by doctors, mind you) not to be given that vaccine again. Are they irresponsible?

            I find it interesting that people who spend so much time and effort analyzing what they eat and how they eat it are so averse to believing there might be a problem with injecting foreign matter into our babies or even our own bodies. Just sayin'...
            Last edited by PHaselow; 01-06-2013, 09:02 AM.
            sigpic
            Age 48
            Start date: 7-5-12
            5'3"
            121lbs
            GOAL: to live to be a healthy and active 100


            "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
            Henri Frederic Amiel

            Comment


            • #7
              I was almost one of those non-vaccinators. I was on the fence for ages about vaccinations being real, proven science, but then also not wanting to shoot my kids up with god-knows-what-extra-crap that goes into those serums, and the number of shots demanded these days is horrifying to me.

              In the end hubby and I made a compromise - because we are always-homeschoolers, we do not need to comply with any school-mandated vacc schedule, so I told hubby that if he would agree to pay for all the extra office visits (when necessary, sometimes the peds will let you come in and let the nurse give the shot as long as it is okayed by the doc beforehand and the doc is also present in the office during), then I would get the kids vaccinated IF we did it one lonely little shot at a time AND it was killed-virus where live virus was standard.

              So my kids are vaccinated, just on one long, drawn-out schedule, and one of them I have so far denied as of today, the Gardasil.

              My peds have always been either Chinese or Indian, which I very much prefer, because then I get a lot more understanding for my alternative wishes and desire to use as many holistic methods as possible, along with the Western allopathic thing. I like the balance.

              PHaselow, I understand. I, too, have a special-needs kid, and being at odds with the hubby over a medical/treatment issue is awful, and would definitely be really hard on your relationship. The divorce rate among parents of special-needs kids is higher than the norm.

              For those of you who have only "typical" and healthy kids, be glad. We who have kids with major problems are quickly confronted with the fact that doctors/modern medical science do not know everything, frequently have no real answers at all, and sometimes actually do harm, and that leaves a parent to find their own answers and to educate themselves in any way we can, and do what we think is necessary for our progeny. I completely get where PHaselow is coming from - I put my kid on one strict-ass diet after high-powered docs couldn't find relief for her, and she (and other moms in her situation) are making their own contrary decisions.

              So then you start to wonder what else the doctors were not quite so right about, no matter how many letters follow their names...
              I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't vaccinate because there is no way in hell I'm shoving a shit ton of chemicals in their bodies, or mine.

                Food industry, Big Pharma and Med Industry can suck it.
                Earthy Mama's Journal

                "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food" ~ Hippocrates

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PHaselow View Post
                  I have a child with regressive Autism. He was born seemingly fine. Baby book has entries like "My most social child" and "What a happy, healthy baby boy."

                  About 1 week after his 6 month shots he stopped rolling from his back to his belly. Stuck like a turtle, and didn't relearn (with difficulty) until close to a year old. He also developed fairly significant reflux during this time.

                  About a week after his 12 month shots he stopped learning new words. He was an early talker. At 10 months he used his first word appropriatetly: "off" when playing with a lamp switch. His language then turned into learning a new word but dropping the other word he had just learned.

                  He then had his 15 month shots late and his 18 month shots early due to an illness and travel plans. Within 3 weeks he was 'gone'. We thought he had lost his hearing. We spent his second Christmas piling his presents around him without any response.

                  Now, all of this is purely anecdotal, but either this disorder has an eerie pattern of developing at the same time vaccines are given or vaccines play a role. I believe the latter. We never got the horrible fevers and high pitched screaming that some report after the shots; just a sinister quiet removal of skills that doctors lovingly refer to as 'soft neurological signs'. I think some people have a genetic make-up or pre-existing exposure to chemicals/toxins that put them at risk of developing neurological problems from the ingredients in vaccines or that they have an inappropriate immune response. Families with a history of auto-immune disorders have a higher incidence of children on the spectrum.

                  Some children seem to be born with Autism. More and more, we are seeing children like mine that are 'taken' later in their toddler years.

                  Vaccinating is still a personal family decision. My husband is an MD and is forcing the issue to vaccinate my kids after 10 years of not doing so. It is causing a huge rift in my marriage. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But, in the meantime, my now almost 12 year old son on the spectrum has made tremendous strides and my older two are happy and healthy and have not contracted a single disease for which they were supposed to have been vaccinated. Luckily, I live in a state that allows a philosophical exemption from mandated shots. For me it is just as easy as signing a waiver.

                  I don't know if it is actually true, but I believe the only incidence of polio in the US for years has been contracting it from the vaccine itself.

                  My last rant: how in the hell can we expect someone with an immature immune system (infants) to have an appropriate immune response to a vaccine? Let's go back to the old vaccine schedule and not vaccinate until children are 2 years old unless there is real risk due to environment or parent lifestyle. And then let's space them out several months at a time and NOT use the magic 5 combo vaccines. There is no science behind combining vaccines and also no science behind the current vaccine schedule. It is purely based on the fact that doctors know we bring our kids in regularly as infants to watch them grow and they vaccinate then out of convenience.
                  It's your decision to vaccinate or not vaccinate your child, but what infuriates ME is when people blame their own troubles ("my child has autism!") on the actions of a well meaning doctor or something we do not fully understand yet.

                  As someone who lives on the spectrum myself, and has constant daily battles with the issues relating to my diagnoses, I know how you must be suffering and struggling just to help your child along. I know. I deal with these issues myself. I'd never wish them on someone else in a million years.

                  But are you TRYING to teach your child to blame their problems on society? So, every time he has an issue or difficulty, society is to blame for causing it or not helping him solve it?

                  I'm not discrediting the possibility that vaccines caused his issues, they might have. But I think it's a bad message to send when you tell them "the vaccines your doctor gave you made you who you are." You teach them to blame society and never take any responsibility for themselves and their own actions. You teach them to respond with things like "oh, it's ok, vaccines made me this way, society is at fault, not me."

                  As someone growing up on the spectrum let me tell you right now that there are three things your child needs more than anything else to be able to make sense of the world around him:

                  1) Your undying love and support. They do not need to mistakenly think "oh, I was normal until the vaccines. And then I started causing mommy trouble." As an autistic child, he is more likely to make this assumption through the misinterpretation of your intent.

                  2) He needs to be taught to take responsibility for his actions. He needs to realize that autistic or not, if he does something inappropriate or wrong, he still has to pay the consequences. He can't always blame his issues on other people or society. And what do you think telling him "your doctor made you who you are," is going to teach him? To blame others and never take responsibility.

                  3) He needs a strong support network. But if you've a) made him think he's causing you trouble ("I was normal and easy until that DAY that I became different and difficult") and b) to blame society for his actions and issues and not himself, he will never learn to cultivate the trust he needs to build the support networks he will need as he grows older.

                  I've been through all of these issues and they're not easy to come to grips with. But you will have to decide how best to navigate them with your own child and I urge you, for his sake, to focus on HIM and not the "evil society/medical establishment/doctors" or whatever "gave him these issues." He NEEDS to know that, in reality, there is nothing wrong with him! Concentrating on what "gave" him his autism puts the emphasis on there being a real problem with him and he will constantly question himself and never build true confidence.

                  I recommend, if you really want to do the best for your child you put the focus back on him and not on blaming society for making him what he is. Read up on neurodiversity, the genetic link to autism, and I'd encourage you to reach out to the good people at the Autistic Self Advocacy Network, which is non-profit founded for and by people with autism in order that they may protect their rights, spread information about neurodiversity, and shed the constant fears and blatant ableism that surrounds autism and constantly holds us back.

                  Here's a link if you're interested: Autistic Self Advocacy Network | Nothing About Us Without Us

                  [By the way, I personally know the organization's founder, he's one of the greatest autistic people I know, and I have nothing but respect for him. If he's not proof that an autistic person can be successful in life and doesn't need to be "cured" to live happily and successfully, then... There's no hope for this world and especially not for autistic people.]
                  "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think each family has their own reasons. To do over again I think I would avoid injecting my child with toxic chemicals especially for diseases she is not likely to get at the time. Like why does a newborn need a vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease before they leave the hospital? Why not wait until they have a mature immune system for that one. Why do we need so many vaccines? Europeans don't get as many doses and they are not dropping like flies.

                    I also wonder why not run titers after first doses to see if they even need a booster. Even my veterinarian warned us against vaccinating our pets as the potential damage was far greater than the benefit from the vaccine. Said there is no scientific research showing the need for the current vaccine schedules for pets.

                    It's not a simple decision, not a simple problem.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've researched it....I didn't vaccinate mine. But I'm not here to convince anyone or defend my decision. Good luck researching the issue for yourselves. I would never tell anyone that their choice (either way) was incorrect as long as they have done the leg work to try and understand the issues and come to their best educated decision.
                      Last edited by Neckhammer; 01-06-2013, 10:33 AM.

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                      • #12
                        I have to laugh at those who think that unvaccinated children are a "risk" to others, especially to the others that are vaccinated.

                        If you have vaccinated your child against whooping cough, how can they get whooping cough?

                        I have chosen to vaccinate all my children, and I also have a child on the autism spectrum who started off just fine and regressed as he got older. Was it the vaccine? I don't know. But what I do know is that I don't want to take a chance of my children getting polio, tetanus, or whooping cough.

                        It's a family choice. I support those that choose not to vaccinate.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          For my own part, it is a simply reasoned process.

                          I do believe in and/or understand vaccine theory. I do think that it has both validity and efficacy, but it is not absolute.

                          First, there is actually very little science around it, particularly in regards to dosing and children. As such, there is an unknown risk of injury as well as the many known risks of injury (which is in the packaging and easy to get ahold of if you ask your HCP).

                          When there is an injury, the common medical practice is to no longer vaccinate that person. The trouble here is that you don't know whether or not to vaccinate the person -- whether or not they are at risk for injury until they are already injured. I see a logical break down in this, don't you?

                          For most pro-vaccine people, this is the only "good reason" to no longer vaccinate: my child was injured.

                          But reasonably, I would prefer that my child not be injured at all, and perhaps not even be at risk for injury from a vaccine -- as I would with any medication. Wouldn't any *reasonable* person?

                          On the other side of this equation is the risk of the disease itself. it is true with any medication that I would give to my child -- what is the risk of the medication vs it's benefits to my child? This is a basic cost-benefit analysis. It's perfectly rational.

                          So, I look at the risk of disease. Polio is a great example. Polio is currently non-active where we live. As such, it is off the vaccination schedule for children. When it is active (and where it is active), it is on the schedule for children. It is still on the schedule here in NZ because of the large immigrant populations from areas where the disease is still active. But, the risk here is so low as to be nil. According to our government web site:

                          Until polio is eradicated worldwide there remains a risk of polio returning to “polio free countries”, including New Zealand.

                          Since 1962 there have been seven cases of polio reported in New Zealand, the most recent was in 1998. Four cases were laboratory confirmed as vaccine associated. Two were classified as probably vaccine related. One case was wild polio (not vaccine related), acquired in Tonga and imported into New Zealand. (source)
                          As such, this brings us to another issue. Notice what i bolded. In addition to injury, the vaccine may not provide protection against the disease and/or may even cause the disease in that individual. Another example of this is what we are seeing with whooping cough.

                          According to some CDC research from 2010, when outbreaks occur, 81% of the population in which it occurs are fully vaccinated while only 8% of those with the disease were wholly unvaccinated. (source). This means that the vaccine lacks efficacy (apparently both in the beginning and in particular three years after dosing), doesn't prevent outbreaks (the public health question), and that the more protected individuals in an outbreak were those who were not vaccinated and/or who were only partially vaccinated.

                          From there, you also have to look at who is truly at risk. In the case of measles, mumps, and rubella (or MMR), if you compare the risk of disease to the risk of vaccines, the risk of the disease is *lesser* than the risk of injury *for children* (source). But, for an unborn child, measles, mumps, and rubella are a very high risk indeed. As such, it makes more sense to vaccinate mothers -- assuming there is adequate efficacy of the vaccine -- than to vaccinate infants and children.

                          Now, to get to the public health argument.

                          It cannot be denied that vaccination has helped decrease the incidence of disease throughout our population. But, there are other things that decrease the presence of disease in communities -- hygiene, clean water, clean air, adequate food sources, and overall healthy lifestyles shared across the population makes a big difference as well. This is partly why these diseases -- even though there are broad-based population vaccination programs -- are still more prevalent in developing nations than developed ones. So, part of the equation is not just vaccines, but overall quality of life in the environment.

                          But, to look at the public health argument altogether, the basic idea is herd immunity -- and that without immunizing, those families are putting the herd at risk of the disease.

                          So, we need to look a bit at herd immunity.

                          The first place to look is at the process of cacooning. Cacooning is where individuals who live with and/or work around at-risk individuals who cannot be vaccinated are vaccinated to prevent spread of the disease to the at-risk community. Essentially, herd immunity. Yet, research has demonstrated that cacooning is ineffective for protecting at-risk individuals, as the vaccine is often ineffective for preventing the disease in the vaccinated individual (source and mercola article linked above).

                          Likewise, there is science that asserts that herd immunity may not truly exist, or that vaccines don't necessarily create that herd immunity. It's more of a "sound bite" rather than a rational look at the evidence that both supports and does not support vaccination. Here is a great article that explains the science and information across several disease from small pox to whooping cough.

                          For my own part, I did vaccinate my son for whooping cough (DTaP) when he was 5 months old or so because our community had an outbreak in the vaccinated community. With the vaccine -- having read the literature and weighed the risks/benefits -- I concluded that the vaccine was unlikely to injure him (it did not), and that the risk of the disease and it's risks to him if he were to get it at that age were extremely high (death), and that the vaccine itself often dramatically decreases the severity of the symptoms in infants should he get it even if vaccinated (more likely to survive if he should get it). Both vaccinated and unvaccinated children of his age, exposed to whooping cough, had a greater risk of getting the disease and also dying from that disease.

                          He received the whole schedule by age 3.5, all spread out based on research that my doctor and I did together. He got the last booster after a nasty accident involving a bicycle (he was hit by a cyclist), and it was an advantagous time to get the last booster and also prevent tetanus. I may have him get tetanus again when he is 10 (when they boost here), and if we travel abroad to a developing nation, I'll have him get the hep. schedule. I'll also boost my own hep schedule, and my husband will get it as well.

                          For me, I choose to select vaccinations based on the risk/benefit analysis for me and my family, since I do not think that "herd immunity" holds a lot of valid science. But, I do think vaccines -- like other medications -- can have benefit when utilized with care.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                            I've researched it....I didn't vaccinate mine. But I'm not here to convince anyone or defend my decision. Good luck researching the issue for yourselves. I would never tell anyone that their choice (either way) was incorrect as long as they have done the leg work to try and understand the issues and come to their best educated decision.
                            The problem that I often run into is that those in the pro-vaccine camp have rarely done the leg work, which is why they attack those who choose to select/delay and/or not vaccinate.

                            My ILs, for example, want us to be "fully informed" and so they constantly give us pro-vaccine articles from the newspaper. these articles are often completely false or just extremely unbalanced. One article even asserted that the only reason people choose not to vaccinate is ignorance about how vaccines work and an irrational fear of autism!

                            I pointed this out to my ILs -- wht the article said -- and I asked them if they truly believed that we were ignorant and irrational. They didn't know how to answer that. They just "wanted us to be FULLY informed!" And I said, "Ok, what does that mean?" And they said that we "looked at all of the sides." And I pointed out how we did that.

                            First, I showed them this amazing book on how the immune system develops over time. It was written by an immunologist, and it explains why vaccines are helpful in the process of developing the immune system. It is definitely pro-vaccine. it is the most reasoned pro-vaccine argument I have ever read. It also talks about nutrition and immune function and immune function in general (over the lifetime, how it changes), so the book goes *far* beyond vaccine theory. It's really a beautiful book.

                            Second, I showed them the different parts of the CDC and similar web sites that demonstrate the *science* regarding the vaccines as well as the information from various journals going through what the actual efficacy, risks, and benefits of each vaccine were and are. I then went through and looked at the "high risk groups" -- and my son doesn't qualify for most of those groups. Likewise, our location doesn't qualify as a high-risk location. And, I pointed out how that works.

                            In the end, they decided to 'drop it' -- but I said "but you must agree that I am, in fact, "fully" informed, yes? That I don't need newspaper articles or pressures to vaccinate my child if I feel it's unnecessary?" And they said "well, it's up to you." (resigned sigh).

                            Yes, yes it is.

                            It's up to any family. I find that most who just follow the schedule don't even know what the vaccines are when they get them for their children (ie, polio is not on most schedules in the US, for example, but people think their kids are still vaccinated for polio), but again, it's their choice, and I don't attack them for not being fully informed about it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                              It's your decision to vaccinate or not vaccinate your child, but what infuriates ME is when people blame their own troubles ("my child has autism!") on the actions of a well meaning doctor or something we do not fully understand yet.
                              To be specific, no one is blaming doctors or "society." Instead, this person believes that her child was injured by a vaccine.

                              Likewise, when a person gets another kind of injury from a vaccine, we are not blaming the doctor or society. We blame the vaccine. The same is true if the medicine a person takes causes an injury.

                              And once we know, we can act accordingly. This mother chose to no longer vaccinate her children. I think it's a reasonable response.

                              I'm not discrediting the possibility that vaccines caused his issues, they might have. But I think it's a bad message to send when you tell them "the vaccines your doctor gave you made you who you are." You teach them to blame society and never take any responsibility for themselves and their own actions. You teach them to respond with things like "oh, it's ok, vaccines made me this way, society is at fault, not me."
                              The vaccine and society are separate.

                              Vaccines (may have) caused the injury. No big deal. You take that in stride. If an automobile accident took the child's leg, we wouldn't say that it's "blaming society" because most everyone drives automobiles. We'd just get on with life with one leg, wouldn't we?

                              1) Your undying love and support. They do not need to mistakenly think "oh, I was normal until the vaccines. And then I started causing mommy trouble." As an autistic child, he is more likely to make this assumption through the misinterpretation of your intent.

                              2) He needs to be taught to take responsibility for his actions. He needs to realize that autistic or not, if he does something inappropriate or wrong, he still has to pay the consequences. He can't always blame his issues on other people or society. And what do you think telling him "your doctor made you who you are," is going to teach him? To blame others and never take responsibility.

                              3) He needs a strong support network. But if you've a) made him think he's causing you trouble ("I was normal and easy until that DAY that I became different and difficult") and b) to blame society for his actions and issues and not himself, he will never learn to cultivate the trust he needs to build the support networks he will need as he grows older.
                              Where in her statements does it say that she isn't doing these things?

                              You are making a really weird inference/logical leap that I cannot follow.

                              To me, it doesn't follow "vaccines caused injury/autism, therefore it was a big problem for mommy" or "vaccines caused injury, therefore you are not responsible for the consequences of your actions" or "vaccines caused injury, therefore there's no support network."

                              Truly, I can see whatever anger or frustration you may have, but I do not see the connection to it and/or vaccines.

                              I've been through all of these issues and they're not easy to come to grips with. But you will have to decide how best to navigate them with your own child and I urge you, for his sake, to focus on HIM and not the "evil society/medical establishment/doctors" or whatever "gave him these issues." He NEEDS to know that, in reality, there is nothing wrong with him! Concentrating on what "gave" him his autism puts the emphasis on there being a real problem with him and he will constantly question himself and never build true confidence.
                              Ok, I see this one.

                              But the reality is context. This is a forum thread wherein a mother is justifying her reasons for choosing not to vaccinate her children and/or not to continue to vaccinate her children. Her reasoning is valid: I believe that vaccines injured my child, causing his autism.

                              That is the whole of the statement. The rest of this is just your conjecture of "what that means!" in his life. My guess is that she is a loving parent, providing everything that you advocate, and not at all "focused on the injury/cause" or what have you, thereby leaving the poor child as a lump.

                              As she asserted, he is a happy, healthy 12 yr old now. She's well connected with how to care for this child -- her child -- and it is naturally difficult for her as it is for her child. But, that doesn't mean it's not without triumphs and joys and all the wonderful good.

                              Most people whom I know hwo have children on the spectrum are extremely versed in all of these materials and groups. Since I have so many friends with children on the spectrum -- even I am familiar with them.

                              It's a massive logical leap to assume htat the mother here is 'focusing on blame' as opposed to getting on with her life and enjoying her child and helping him to grow into a confident, healthy person.

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