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Why do so many folks not Vaccinate their kids?

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  • #46
    I vaccinated my kids. If I had my kids today... I don't know if I would. Or wait, I probably WOULD but NOT on the recommended schedule. The schedule today is INSANE. They're now immunising babies at just a couple of days old against Hep B (which as it's not even airborne, they're unlikely to get unless their mother is a carrier!!). It's nuts! Why not wait until the kid is 12 or 13 which they used to?? Geez, I wouldn't even get vaccinated against it... I'm really not afraid of contracting it... why would I want to vaccinate a newborn? (That being said, I DID have my two youngest immunised against it at the time... simply because I "did as I was told" but even then it freaked me out).

    The number of vaccines, and the number of vaccines that are designed to be used against multiple diseases (DTP, MMR etc.) I don't believe to be as safe as claimed.

    So, were I to go through it again, I'd INSIST on an extended schedule, and I'd request that all vaccines be against a single illness. I would NEVER have a newborn immunised against Hep B which I still think is ludicrous! Some vaccines I probably wouldn't bother with at all (stuff like chicken pox).

    Of course, I'd also make sure my kids had the best diet possible to ensure their immune system was as good as possible.

    My kids are all generally pretty healthy (despite being vaccinated I sometimes think!). My oldest son is Aspie, but I honestly don't think it's vaccine related (maybe it's impossible to tell... but really, I have symptoms of Asperger's too, as does my sister). But I also know of FAR TOO MANY kids who have been adversely affected by vaccination (or just a huge coincidence?!). Not always autism, but sometimes behavioural issues, learning issues etc. Kids who were formerly pretty well behaved and settled suddenly have ADHD etc.

    I think there are excellent points on BOTH sides of the vaccination debate. I am entirely sympathetic to people who choose not to vaccinate at all, even if that's something I don't think I'd do... I certainly don't believe in over vaccination, and I have no intention to every have any other vaccines MYSELF, certainly not a yearly flu shot (I'd rather just keep healthy with a good immune system and avoid the flu that way, rather than have toxins injected into my body).

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    • #47
      Hehehe sorry folks for opening this can of poisoned worms. I had no idea. I asked 'cause I did not know what to think. Frankly I still dont know what to think, My wife and I are both pro Vax such as it stands but we are also in Canada which we believe has higher safety standards than the US. (However we dont know for certain and will look into it.)

      I do agree with the idea that we have the safety to refuse vax due to the fact that these diseases are no longer so prevalent due to long term Vax. I suspect if everyone stopped them, the diseases would come back with a will. Clean water also contributes too but to different sicknesses.

      Thanks for everyone's input.
      Primal since April 2012 Male 6' 3" SW 345lbs CW 240lbs GW 220lbs and when I get there I am getting a utlikilt. This one http://www.utilikilts.com/company/pr...ilts/workmans/ actually.

      Join me at www.paleoplanet.net, where all the cavemen hang out.

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      • #48
        Not getting into the for or against vaccination debate but I do find the subject rather fascinating. There was a study not too long ago that found the smallpox vaccine confers some immunity against hiv/aids, and that stopping the worldwide immunization program in the 70's allowed the aids epidemic to explode.

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        • #49
          Vaccines are for a greater good, but may hurt some people. You can't sequester your kids if you don't vaccinate them. Well, I guess you can. The point isn't about individual health, it's about disease control among a population.

          Take it down to animals. Some animals react really badly to vaccines. There are alternatives (they can pull a titer to make sure your dog is OK for rabies.). So yeah, a few animals suffer from the vaccines, but if we didn't have vaccines, we'd have rabies outbreaks where many suffer.

          Does it suck to be the one who has a reactive pet or child? Hell yeah. But a lot more people are going to have sucky days if we don't vaccinate. I don't have kids... but I have a horse and have seen the consequences of non-vaccination go through a barn and kill 50% of the horses in an awful way.

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          • #50
            Hm.

            I realise that this is a very emotive subject and people get very riled up about it. However, I don't like statements of personal opinion being bandied about as fact, no matter how widely they are considered to be true. It is impossible to prove that vaccines are solely or even largely responsible for the decline in serious diseases such as polio and the like. The way that pharma tries to "prove" this is by statistics. Anyone who knows anything about statistics know that they are notoriously easy to skew in favour of whatever you are trying to demonstrate. The curve typically shown on a graph to demonstrate a drop in fatalities due to a disease after the vaccine was introduced doesn't show the full picture, ie the entire curve back to first recorded incidences of the disease.

            I REALLY dislike the statement "herd immunity" as if some of us should willingly (and unknowingly) sacrifice our child's life or health on the altar of "greater good". That is absolute junk. I am not saying that parents should be selfish, but if we don't care for our own children's health and best interest, who will? And surely on a forum like this, we are all aware of what a huge impact environmental factors, most especially food, have on our health and ability to effectively fight off serious disease. For example, it is no surprise that vaccines are accepted by a large proportion of the population due to the tremendous marketing and political influence over us, but still many women choose to breastfeed for a short time, not at all, or for only a year (and are ENCOURAGED to stop at one year by paediatricians!!). Which one earns a poopload of money? 'Nuff said in my opinion. We are responsible for our health and that of our children, and when we trust someone else who tells us that something is ESSENTIAL for the health and well being of our dearly loved child, and that thing damages them, how dare someone else say, you shouldn't blame other people for it?? I don't think any parent wants someone to blame, just to know who and what to trust. It is SUCH a hard issue for parents.

            And to add on the subject of animals and vaccines, read some of Joel Salatin's books, he talks total comman sense about how if we get to bottom of transmission/cause of certain things we can take precautions that avoid immunization. But of course, that won't bolster the profits of big pharma.....

            Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
            Vaccines are for a greater good, but may hurt some people. You can't sequester your kids if you don't vaccinate them. Well, I guess you can. The point isn't about individual health, it's about disease control among a population.

            Take it down to animals. Some animals react really badly to vaccines. There are alternatives (they can pull a titer to make sure your dog is OK for rabies.). So yeah, a few animals suffer from the vaccines, but if we didn't have vaccines, we'd have rabies outbreaks where many suffer.

            Does it suck to be the one who has a reactive pet or child? Hell yeah. But a lot more people are going to have sucky days if we don't vaccinate. I don't have kids... but I have a horse and have seen the consequences of non-vaccination go through a barn and kill 50% of the horses in an awful way.
            Last edited by sbufton; 01-07-2013, 06:47 AM.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Damiana View Post
              There was a study in which the researchers falsified the results and thus made it seem like autism was caused by vaccines. He was caught out and discredited by the journals that published his papers and by his peers but by then the damage was already done la Jenny McCarthy and co.
              If you are talking about Andrew Wakefield and MMR, that isn't really how it went down but oh, well. It is how it was played out in the media.

              The Danish scientist that was hired by the CDC to debunk the MMR:Autism and Thimerosal: Autism connections absconded with $2M in 2009 and the validity of his studies are now in question. But again, oh well; it hasn't been reported by the media.
              sigpic
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              Start date: 7-5-12
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              "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
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              • #52
                Something to consider if you do vaccinate your children: run titres at the time your child is due for their kindergarten boosters around the ages of 5-6 yrs. Often your child still carries adequate immunity to a virus from the earlier vaccines, and boosters are unnecessary. I did this for my Autistic child to work with my MD husband who believes the risk of disease outweighs the risk of harm from vaccines. The only thing my son didn't carry an immunity to was tetanus. All of the others were adequate: the measles, the varicella, the mumps, the polio. He needed none of them based on blood titres.

                I have read up to 95% of children do not actually *need* the MMR booster, but we give it anyway because it is easier and less expensive than running titres on everyone. They say that the child's immune system did not respond to the initial shot but why would we think it will respond to the booster? Absolutely no science behind this theory as far as I can tell.

                This is so emotionally charged for me. Sorry.
                sigpic
                Age 48
                Start date: 7-5-12
                5'3"
                121lbs
                GOAL: to live to be a healthy and active 100


                "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
                Henri Frederic Amiel

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by goinggrok View Post
                  I'm 46 years old, never been vaccinated, no shots of any sort tetnus or otherwise, etc.
                  Still kickin....nuf said!
                  You are my age. Do you know why your parents chose not to vaccinate? At that time, we didn't get any as newborns and I think only 5-6 shots by the time we entered kindergarten. They were pioneers! It seems that the addition of the HepB at birth and others within the first 6 months correlates with the increase in Autism and other neurological disorders (around 1991). When we were little, I didn't think there was any concern. Just interested.
                  sigpic
                  Age 48
                  Start date: 7-5-12
                  5'3"
                  121lbs
                  GOAL: to live to be a healthy and active 100


                  "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
                  Henri Frederic Amiel

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    Warmbear, what were you thinking, bro? Not this thread again. Can we just hash this back and forth for a few more pages and then all make a solemn pact to NOT do this again next year? Please?????
                    I haven't been here for a year. Next year I will refrain from stepping up on my soapbox.
                    sigpic
                    Age 48
                    Start date: 7-5-12
                    5'3"
                    121lbs
                    GOAL: to live to be a healthy and active 100


                    "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
                    Henri Frederic Amiel

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                    • #55
                      Go back about another 12 years, and all I got was the smallpox and polio vaccine. By the time the measles vaccine hit the scene, I'd already had measles and wasn't required to get vaccinated by the school. I remember that we had some Christian Scientists that were allowed to register their children for school even without the required vaccines.

                      Not sure if this has been posted (I confess to not reading the entire thread): Vaccines: Pubs/Vaccine Timeline
                      "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

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                      • #56
                        I have been doing reading lately on the effects that gluten and dairy can have on people with autism. Which leads me to ask those of you who noticed that your kids started reacting with autism symptoms around the time of vaccination...when did you start feeding solids, cereals and milk to your kids?

                        Most doctors recommend starting solids around 4-6 months, around the time as some of the shots. Many people transition off of "baby" food around 12 to 18 months.

                        Certainly, vaccinations may be the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, for kids who have leaky guts, and undiagnosed allergies. But I do wonder what role wheat and milk plays. A fair number of kids and adults with autism seem to have significant improvements when no longer consuming wheat and milk.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Warmbear View Post
                          I do agree with the idea that we have the safety to refuse vax due to the fact that these diseases are no longer so prevalent due to long term Vax. I suspect if everyone stopped them, the diseases would come back with a will. Clean water also contributes too but to different sicknesses.

                          Thanks for everyone's input.
                          This is a belief, not supported by evidence.

                          That being said, vaccines are made by the same companies, and shipped internationally. They are all basically the same formulations. So, the ones in the US are the same as the ones in Canada and the ones in NZ.

                          It's fine to choose to vaccinate your children -- but please, please do your research. As in, do actual research. Don't just ask people on a forum.

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                          • #58
                            There's also an epidemiological study that connects greater incidents of SIDS clustering around vaccination schedules (and when those children actually got vaccines). Here's a link with lots of studies (a biblio). It's particularly focused on DTaP.

                            I had this information before I gave my son DTaP (the only vaccine I've given him), and you had better bet that this was weighed in that balance. And, you had also bed that Dh and I vowed to take shifts staying away over-night to watch him and make sure he was breathing all night long. Cosleeping helps, but each of us stayed awake for half the night for two nights straight (that's when the cluster window typically closes (within 2-3 days of vaccination).

                            Not that it's "causal" -- but it's enough to be a concern to me. I was also watching for other symptoms. Thankfully, no worries.

                            I also personally believe that autism has many causes, and vaccines may be one of them. But, as a prior poster noted, I think that vaccines are likely part of a confluence of factors, and that this may not be "autism" itself. I know it's a whacked-out theory.

                            See, I believe that there is a genetic component to the spectrum -- for people truly on the spectrum. I think -- just as there are viruses that mimic other viruses -- there are injuries and behavior patterns that mimic autism.

                            Thus, the brain-injury plus gut-issues autism spectrum may not actually be "true" autism at all -- and thereby "curable." Whereas, I believe that autism is organic, not injury-based per se, and while therapies of many kinds can help make certain brain pathways to better their social abilities/connect-ability, ultimately their brains process differently (similar to dyslexics).

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by CrazyCatLady View Post
                              I have been doing reading lately on the effects that gluten and dairy can have on people with autism. Which leads me to ask those of you who noticed that your kids started reacting with autism symptoms around the time of vaccination...when did you start feeding solids, cereals and milk to your kids?

                              Most doctors recommend starting solids around 4-6 months, around the time as some of the shots. Many people transition off of "baby" food around 12 to 18 months.

                              Certainly, vaccinations may be the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, for kids who have leaky guts, and undiagnosed allergies. But I do wonder what role wheat and milk plays. A fair number of kids and adults with autism seem to have significant improvements when no longer consuming wheat and milk.
                              Which came first: the toxic exposure or the allergy? I am one to believe the toxic exposure causes the leaky gut, which means maybe the vaccines are partially to blame for the leaky gut that is present at 4 months when I start feeding my child rice cereal (not wheat) or milk based formula? Mind you, my child already had 2 DTaP, 2 HepB and 2 Polio, 2 Hib and 2 pneumococcal vaccinations by 4 months (TEN vaccines!) because I followed the recommended schedule at that time. If leaky gut is to blame for Autism symptoms, then something is causing leaky gut that was not widely present 20 years ago.

                              My child was a definite responder to a gluten/casein free diet as a toddler. These days, it isn't as apparent and he is old enough and independent enough where I cannot control his eating all day. So, he gets gluten and casein. He was gluten free for about 6 months a few years ago and it seemed to heal a persistent (bad) gas problem. He has agreed to go gluten free again if his gas reappears. Sugar excess does it, too.
                              sigpic
                              Age 48
                              Start date: 7-5-12
                              5'3"
                              121lbs
                              GOAL: to live to be a healthy and active 100


                              "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
                              Henri Frederic Amiel

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                                There's also an epidemiological study that connects greater incidents of SIDS clustering around vaccination schedules (and when those children actually got vaccines). Here's a link with lots of studies (a biblio). It's particularly focused on DTaP.

                                I had this information before I gave my son DTaP (the only vaccine I've given him), and you had better bet that this was weighed in that balance. And, you had also bed that Dh and I vowed to take shifts staying away over-night to watch him and make sure he was breathing all night long. Cosleeping helps, but each of us stayed awake for half the night for two nights straight (that's when the cluster window typically closes (within 2-3 days of vaccination).

                                Not that it's "causal" -- but it's enough to be a concern to me. I was also watching for other symptoms. Thankfully, no worries.

                                I also personally believe that autism has many causes, and vaccines may be one of them. But, as a prior poster noted, I think that vaccines are likely part of a confluence of factors, and that this may not be "autism" itself. I know it's a whacked-out theory.

                                See, I believe that there is a genetic component to the spectrum -- for people truly on the spectrum. I think -- just as there are viruses that mimic other viruses -- there are injuries and behavior patterns that mimic autism.

                                Thus, the brain-injury plus gut-issues autism spectrum may not actually be "true" autism at all -- and thereby "curable." Whereas, I believe that autism is organic, not injury-based per se, and while therapies of many kinds can help make certain brain pathways to better their social abilities/connect-ability, ultimately their brains process differently (similar to dyslexics).
                                Ah, but why the mind boggling rise in cases? And please don't say better detection and diagnosis. If that were the case, then we would see equally mind boggling reductions in cases of other disorders (we see just the opposite). Something is harming our children.
                                sigpic
                                Age 48
                                Start date: 7-5-12
                                5'3"
                                121lbs
                                GOAL: to live to be a healthy and active 100


                                "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
                                Henri Frederic Amiel

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