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Why do so many folks not Vaccinate their kids?

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  • #31
    OK well I am not arguing with you. Your choice to vaccinate, my choice not to.
    I don't see why this topic needs to be argued anyway, no-one will ever agree.

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    • #32
      I'm 46 years old, never been vaccinated, no shots of any sort tetnus or otherwise, etc.
      Still kickin....nuf said!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Huntress View Post
        I don't 'think' that - it's fact. Even the healthiest most robust person can catch a disease under the right circumstances. And we are talking specifically about infants and children who are especially vulnerable, no matter how healthy.
        The other thing that really annoys me about pro-immunisation people is how their ignorance protects them from even being aware of the position of the opposing view.

        Of course, immunisation isn't the only topic where the ignorant can presume themselves to automatically right when disagreeing with others. We spent some months researching homeschooling before deciding to do it, only to be hit by 'have you thought about it?' when talking to a friend.

        Some people even think that 'giving up a whole food group can't be healthy' when discussing being wheat free.

        Your 'fact' in the quote above is completely and very wrong. You have misattributed the drop in child mortality rates to immunisation, when it is actually access to clean drinking water which has dropped the death rate so dramatically in the last century.
        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

        Griff's cholesterol primer
        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
        bloodorchid is always right

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        • #34
          Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
          The other thing that really annoys me about pro-immunisation people is how their ignorance protects them from even being aware of the position of the opposing view.

          Of course, immunisation isn't the only topic where the ignorant can presume themselves to automatically right when disagreeing with others. We spent some months researching homeschooling before deciding to do it, only to be hit by 'have you thought about it?' when talking to a friend.

          Some people even think that 'giving up a whole food group can't be healthy' when discussing being wheat free.

          Your 'fact' in the quote above is completely and very wrong. You have misattributed the drop in child mortality rates to immunisation, when it is actually access to clean drinking water which has dropped the death rate so dramatically in the last century.
          I wish I could like this post!

          Yes Its not like I decided not to immunise on a whim or something. I researched long and hard on it. My explanation I gave was just the quick one, because I should not have to explain myself to any one.

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          • #35
            Warmbear, what were you thinking, bro? Not this thread again. Can we just hash this back and forth for a few more pages and then all make a solemn pact to NOT do this again next year? Please?????

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            • #36
              Yes please!!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by palebluedots View Post
                I find this topic interesting and a bit infuriating as well. I think people who do not vaccinate their children are being irresponsible to the rest of society. Grrr.....
                Why? I've seen this same argument from people who argue everyone should get a flu shot. If you believe in flu shots, YOU get one. Then you're protected...or at least you believe you are. In my case, flu shots make me terribly sick and I won't get another one again in my lifetime. Oddly I never get sick when I don't get a flu shot, I always get sick if I do.

                As to children- parents may be putting their own child at risk, but not other children, assuming those of you who ardently believe in vaccinations continue to vaccinate. Isn't that the whole point of vaccinations anyway? But when you read the stories (and there are a LOT of them) such as the one just below your post with the family whose child began displaying symptoms of autism only after vaccination, I truly believe it should be up to the parents. What if we really are causing children to develop autism by immunizing too early??? That can't be worth it.
                High Weight: 225
                Weight at start of Primal: 189
                Current Weight: 174
                Goal Weight: 130

                Primal Start Date: 11/26/2012

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
                  What happens when you go to school if you aren't vaccinated? Can they refuse you? Here in Aus that is illegal. We just have to get a conscience objector form signed by a Dr (Very easy to do), and that is that.
                  Nothing.

                  In the US, you *might* have to get an exemption form filed with the school, but otherwise, they can't force you to vaccinate. it's a common misconception.

                  The real issue isn't school, though, it's child care. Child care is private in the US, and private ventures can make a lot of rules. The majority of day cares require vaccination or they won't let your child in. Since most families require day care, then their children are vaccinated on schedule to meet this requirement. The only 'out' is if you have a medical reason (ie, injured by vaccines), then you can not-vaccinate and, if the day care chooses to keep your child, then that might be allowed.

                  There are some day care centers that do not require it, but they often are hard to find and have long waiting lists.

                  In the US, at least.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Huntress View Post
                    Perhaps those objectors should look back into history at the enormous rate of childhood death by disease.

                    {snip}

                    As soon as enough people in the population stop vaccinating and the "herd" immunity threshold is breached (I think it is around 90% of the population), you watch kids dropping dead from diseases we thought we long gone. There are risks with everything in life; the debatable risks associated with vaccinations is no where near as high as the PROVEN risks if these diseases become commonplace in society once more.
                    Actually, the article that I quoted (in the bottom of my first post in the stream) gives a very clear picture of natural disease cycle vs vaccines in a modern, comparative analysis. So what you think of as "factual" is not actually "factual." There isn't "herd immunity" is a vague term with no clear scientific definition or scientific evidence to support it as an idea.

                    But, you are free to deny those facts, if you wish.
                    Last edited by zoebird; 01-06-2013, 08:51 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Huntress View Post
                      I don't 'think' that - it's fact. Even the healthiest most robust person can catch a disease under the right circumstances. And we are talking specifically about infants and children who are especially vulnerable, no matter how healthy.
                      Vaccinating infants may not provide the immunity that you desire. I posted about this in my first post. Essentially, the risks of the vaccine are greater than the risks of the disease for infants/children in terms of MMR. I posted a scientific/government source no less.

                      The real risk is for unborn children, and the only protection is if the mother has immunity -- so she may choose to be boosted before pregnancy (but can't be during), and giving the child the vaccine holds greater risk and may not provide adequate immunity.

                      Originally posted by Huntress View Post
                      You as a healthy adult might have it to little effect (even carry the disease but not suffer any effects) but you still have the capacity to pass it on to a vulnerable infant - for example.
                      This process, called cacoon-ing, has been demonstrated to be ineffective. Again, I provided a scientific-based/government-focused source about this.

                      Likewise, my post provided scientific evidence that vaccines may lack actual efficacy, particularly in terms of whooping cough -- which is a commonly cacoon-ed disease as well as vaccinating infants. 81% of those getting the disease were *vaccinated*, and as such, even a cacooned child might get the disease when their vaccinated parent or sibling gets the disease. Only 8% of the break out sited in the article were non-vaccinated people.

                      Efficacy is a big issue in immunizations -- which the article that I posted (the last one) about "herd immunity" -- goes into extensively. Boosting vs getting certain disease, etc. . . it's got a lot of interesting stuff.

                      Again, you are completely free to disregard this scientific information (or "facts" as they are commonly known) to continue with whatever you "believe" about disease and vaccines. And act in accordance to those beliefs.

                      I'll act in accordance to my reason based on facts and science -- as best we understand it.

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                      • #41
                        I found it very interesting that a site dedicated to feline health (by a vet), mentioned that veterinarian colleges have stopped teaching about immunizing cats, due to the health risks and lack of efficacy.

                        Basically, the "dead virus" form of vaccines (for cats, mind you) is packaged with an irritant to trigger immune response. The irritant is a know carcinogen.

                        Yes, I'll go find the website to link here... Adverse Reactions
                        From the section on Vaccine-associated sarcoma (cancer):
                        If a vaccine-associated fibrosarcoma develops, surgical removal is attempted, but generally, this tumor is so invasive it is difficult to remove it all. Radiation or chemotherapy are often recommended in combination with surgery.

                        Veterinarian vaccinating against FeLV in the left rear legGenerally, the FeLV vaccine is now given in the left rear leg, in an area distinct from where other vaccinations are given. If a tumor would develop, knowing which vaccine was given where will help us determine with which vaccine the tumor is associated. Also, if a tumor would develop, amputation of the leg would, in many cases, be curative. Cats do incredibly well on three legs, and many owners prefer this to having their cat succumb to a tumor.
                        This one discusses the dead virus issue: Cat Owners Must Weigh Benefits with Risks

                        So, what is the connection, since the OP was talking about children? These vaccines are produced in very similar ways, using pretty much the same theories, technology, and "inert" ingredients. If people, vets, and vet schools, are recognizing that it might be a risk assessment decision, then I would sincerely hope that parents would start applying that sort of decision making to it, rather than following the CW blindly.

                        And, yes, in certain circumstances, I would immunize. And have. Especially tetanus shots.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by palebluedots View Post
                          I find this topic interesting and a bit infuriating as well. I think people who do not vaccinate their children are being irresponsible to the rest of society. Grrr.....
                          Here is the thing, I have no responsibility to the rest of society. I am however responsible for my child; I will never put "the rest of society" ahead of what is best for him. After much debate and research we decided to go with a limited and delayed vaccination schedule.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by specsAreGrok View Post
                            Here is the thing, I have no responsibility to the rest of society. I am however responsible for my child; I will never put "the rest of society" ahead of what is best for him.
                            Originally posted by specsAreGrok View Post
                            After much debate and research we decided to go with a limited and delayed vaccination schedule.
                            Hear hear.

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                            • #44
                              I have read says is a load of bulldookey.

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                              • #45
                                There was a study in which the researchers falsified the results and thus made it seem like autism was caused by vaccines. He was caught out and discredited by the journals that published his papers and by his peers but by then the damage was already done la Jenny McCarthy and co.
                                F 28/5'4/100 lbs

                                "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

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