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Ranting and rambling. Or, What's with the fads lately???

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  • #46
    Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
    Eat potatoes if you want, just remember that it's not a fix for everyone.
    I have a feeling that potatoes will become a prominent factor in Paleo/Primal Blueprint over the next few years as new editions are written.

    I spent the last few days with Jack LaLanne and Paul Jaminet...well, their books anyhow.

    In Jack's last book, Live Young Forever, which he wrote a year or so before he died at age 96. In the beginning, he says something like, 'don't just skim this book, read it carefully, these are my thoughts on health and fitness from observing people for 95 years.' Besides a grueling workout regimine he kept til the end, he ate whole food and didn't compromise. He ate grains, but not flour. He ate potatoes, but not with butter and sour cream. I don't think he mentioned carb-fat-protein in the whole book, which was a breath of fresh air!

    In Paul Jaminet's new Perfect Health Diet, with an intro by Mark Sisson, he recommends everyone eat 1-2 pounds of potato, sweet potato, rice, plantain, or cassava, AND 1-2 pounds of veggies/fruit, AND 1 pound of meat. His DO NOT EAT list is short...vegetable oil, grains, beans, and sugar. Everything else is allowed to some extent.

    Since rice is a grain, I'm surprised it made his safe starch list, but at any rate, I think we are being steered toward a diet that is 1/3 starch based. Notice I didn't say 'carb based', but starch based.

    I am leery of rice, and eat it sparingly. I think sweet potatoes and potatoes will be the new "Big Ass Salad" of the PB future.

    In his intro to Perfect Health Diet, Mark Sisson says "I am a generalist, Paul Jaminet is a scientist". I think you guys might be ahead of the game if you get a copy and read it.

    When discussing keto and low carb diets, Paul Jaminet still wants us to eat potatoes and rice while on these diets. There is 'stuff' in potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc... that is vitally important to our health. It's way bigger than glycogen and insulin.

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    • #47
      The weight i lost remains off. I did this once before to get under 150 before our anniversary trip in November. It stayed off until this week when I've been eating 1900-2500 calories per day and my norm is more like 1800.
      Last edited by Miss Understood; 12-28-2012, 09:44 AM.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by otzi View Post
        I have a feeling that potatoes will become a prominent factor in Paleo/Primal Blueprint over the next few years as new editions are written.

        I spent the last few days with Jack LaLanne and Paul Jaminet...well, their books anyhow.

        In Jack's last book, Live Young Forever, which he wrote a year or so before he died at age 96. In the beginning, he says something like, 'don't just skim this book, read it carefully, these are my thoughts on health and fitness from observing people for 95 years.' Besides a grueling workout regimine he kept til the end, he ate whole food and didn't compromise. He ate grains, but not flour. He ate potatoes, but not with butter and sour cream. I don't think he mentioned carb-fat-protein in the whole book, which was a breath of fresh air!

        In Paul Jaminet's new Perfect Health Diet, with an intro by Mark Sisson, he recommends everyone eat 1-2 pounds of potato, sweet potato, rice, plantain, or cassava, AND 1-2 pounds of veggies/fruit, AND 1 pound of meat. His DO NOT EAT list is short...vegetable oil, grains, beans, and sugar. Everything else is allowed to some extent.

        Since rice is a grain, I'm surprised it made his safe starch list, but at any rate, I think we are being steered toward a diet that is 1/3 starch based. Notice I didn't say 'carb based', but starch based.

        I am leery of rice, and eat it sparingly. I think sweet potatoes and potatoes will be the new "Big Ass Salad" of the PB future.

        In his intro to Perfect Health Diet, Mark Sisson says "I am a generalist, Paul Jaminet is a scientist". I think you guys might be ahead of the game if you get a copy and read it.

        When discussing keto and low carb diets, Paul Jaminet still wants us to eat potatoes and rice while on these diets. There is 'stuff' in potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc... that is vitally important to our health. It's way bigger than glycogen and insulin.
        I havent read Live Young Forever, but I did buy the PHD the day it came out. I enjoyed it and Mark's forward. Those are my notes also. Up to 1lb, 600 total calories with 400 from starch, 200 from fruit. All the veggies you want, those don't count. Then he gets into more specifics also, like eggs, liver, salmon, etc but what Otzi mentioned are the rough basics. Up to 1lb starch, up to 1lb fruit, up to 1lb meat. And this is all "tweaked" for lack of a better word according to your goals. He has recommendations if you are more active, and other recommendations if your goal is for weight loss.

        And this is how it all starts. I am sure PB started as a fad to some. I am sure some STILL call it a fad. I am sure it was and still will be a fad to some others, especially those that don't tweak and just say, well it's not working for me. Yes maybe they weren't doing some part of it right, or too much 20% or whatever. But they might have been able to tweak a little and make it fit their lifestyle rather than calling it a Fad and giving up.
        Last edited by gopintos; 12-28-2012, 10:02 AM.
        65lbs gone and counting!!

        Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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        • #49
          With the potato thing I see some of yo-yo dieting. I suspect that yo-yo dieting is what got a lot of us to an unhealthy state, or at least set the ball in motion. I think everybody is way too hung up on macro-nutrients. Potatoes aren't magic. Fat isn't magic. Yesterday I ate a grain-based bar (Journey bar, pretty unique), a persimmons, 6 huge dried figs, half a bar of chocolate, half a huge sweet potato, a carrot and a half, some nuts and a bunch of non-carby things including lots of butter, pork fat and goat fat. Was that a miracle for my body? Did I go out and preach to everybody they should eat like this? Did I sit in agony with myself because I ate fat with those sweet things or wasn't low carb? No. It was just another day like any other. Got a little sunshine, went for a hike, rested and relaxed, got enough sleep, managed not to drink too much coffee, didn't spend any money. A pretty good day.
          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
            With the potato thing I see some of yo-yo dieting. I suspect that yo-yo dieting is what got a lot of us to an unhealthy state, or at least set the ball in motion.
            Yo-yo dieting within a narrow band of 5-10lbs is probably a very healthy thing to do as long as you are eating good, primal food. Sometimes you overeat for an extended period, either by accident or design, as in muscle bulking.

            Yo-yo dieting in a 30 pound band and eating crap SAD foods is one of the most unhealthy things. When I was in the military, we had a once-a-year weigh-in. We'd starve, dehydrate, and sweat for a week just to get in under our max--my max allowed weight was 205lbs! Then we'd pig out on pizza and beer. 20 years of this pattern really screwed me over!

            Now, I really like how I feel at 165lbs. My daily range is 163-168 depending on time of day etc... We had a house full of relatives and food everywhere for the last 2 weeks. I decided to eat some off-plan things just to see how my body would react--and it reacted like I thought it would, 10 pounds of bloated weight gain in about 7 days, I felt terrible, aching joints, headaches, gassy, sluggish...

            Right now I'm on day 3 of all potatoes. I'm almost back to my starting weight and feeling great. I love the thought of being able to stay at an optimum/healthy weight instead of staying just under a maximum-allowed weight.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
              With the potato thing I see some of yo-yo dieting.
              I can see that. For me, that is what happens when I fasted also. I could lose weight fasting, but then it all comes right back. And I was definitely not eating too many calories. I know this because I anally track daily.

              Some day, I won't have to. But for now, I feel I need to. I have no clue what anything has. Even all the things you mentioned, all sounds good, but I dont have a clue the calories or macros, and I get what you are saying, don't worry about it, but for me, for now, I feel like I have to in order to meet my goals. The first thing ppl say when you say you arent losing weight, ppl say well you must be eating too much, calories do matter. So this way, I know.

              You are correct, it's not magic. Just a tool. Maybe a crutch to some. To eat crappy on the weekend or eat their 20% but now instead of feeling bloated for a few days to a week and just deal with it, there are a few things they can do about it, if they want to. I dont think anyone is saying anyone has to. And the only "preaching" is when someone questions it. In fact, most of it was contained to it's own little thread(s). But when it is questioned in other threads or round about ways referenced, I dont see the harm in presenting the other side. People can make up their own minds.

              It would be dead on other threads and self-contained to its own, if others didnt drag it out. Just like the fast threads and the more fat thread. Doesnt interest me anymore, and rather than go and regurgitate why it doesnt work for me, I just let it be. It works for some ppl so why should I go rain on their parade just cuz I am not one of them. We all have to find our way.

              But the good thing though, and why these forums are good, is that it does get ppl talking. People thinking. It is good that we learn from each other. Things that work. Things that don't. Things we want to try and things to stay away from. I know for me, I tried to do what worked for others, and it just didnt work for me. So I could have quit. I could have wondered forever what was wrong with me, instead I kept reading. I kept learning. I kept trying.

              So it is good to have opposing sides and opinions even though we all stem from the same primal place.
              65lbs gone and counting!!

              Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Althaur View Post
                What is it with this belief there should be a quick way to accomplish ANYTHING? Accomplishment takes work. I don't care what the Potato Diet is. It's a crash diet. It's a quick fix. IN MY OPINION (read that again) it's an "easy" solution for someone who doesn't want to do hard work.

                I still enjoy potatoes while eating Primal. I don't gorge myself on them or only eat them for days on end. That would ultimately be unhealthy. Instead, I have them as part of a well thought out meal plan. Well, as well thought out as I can have eating in the chow halls out here right now. When home, my wife and I enjoy mashed sweet potatoes, or roasted baby potatoes with a roast. BUT, I realize they are one of many healthy food options. Not a magic pill.
                Hey, Althaur! I think this is a good thread you started. I take it from you being in Afghanistan you are in the military. I did 21 years in the USAF and spent many, many months in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, as well as many African locations between the wars.

                When I was in, I ate whatever I wanted and exercised as little as possible. As long as I kept under my weight max and could do my annual PT test, I was golden. It looks like you maybe have a little more sense in how you are eating than I did.

                One of the big secrets to fast weight loss for a weigh-in was Atkins. Meat and lettuce for 2 weeks and you'd drop 10 pounds easy. 2 weeks later, you'd gain it all back plus a few. And that effort was used to keep me at a level considered obese! When I first joined at age 17, I was a skinny 155 pound kid. By age 20, I was at 180 and when I retired I weighed 210 (I'm 5'10).

                Within 2 years of retiring, I weighed 250, was on meds for high bp, high trigs, high chol (statins), hypothyroid, sleep apnea, gout, and pre-diabetic. I was eating whole-grain/low-fat and getting worse. I'd bounce between 220-250. I found paleo/Primal Blueprint in 2010, quickly got down to 185lbs, then spent 12 months getting to 175. During this time I got off all meds and bloodwork is perfect. I went from not being able to do 1 pullup to doing 30.

                I was stuck at 175 for 6 months, exercising, IF'ing, carb loading, keto'ing, and all the normal hacks when I came across the idea of eating a starchy, single food diet for 1-2 weeks which would kick your fat-loss into overdrive, while at the same time building huge stores of friendly gut bacteria and stabilizing blood sugar/insulin. I tried it quietly because it seemed like utter BS. I ate potatoes for 2 weeks and lost 10 pounds. I was able to get down to 160 pounds-- a weight I hadn't seen since Boot Camp. After resuming normal PB eating, I lost 2 more pounds then stabilized at about 165 where I've been for about 6 months now.

                I am working on a personal plan to keep starchy foods in my daily menu and use the 'Potato Reset' to maintain my weight between 162-168 year-round. At this weight, I don't snore, sleep like a baby, have energy I can't believe, and stay extremely motivated to lift heavy things, sprint and walk 3-5 miles a day.

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                • #53
                  I have to say I am impressed with all of you that can do the potato diet. I am on day 2 of the GAPS intro diet, which is mostly soups and I am finding it very trying. I really can't imagine eating just potatoes; I am sure I would be impossible to live with.
                  Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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                  • #54
                    From some stuff I've read, whether we crash off the weight or follow the solid 2 lbs/wk advice, most of us will put it back on within five years. Part of it is lack of planning or the mindset that diet is a temporary thing, but part of it is some hormone that makes people who lose a lot of weight feel hungry.

                    That said, while I find primal to be a very healthy way of eating, for those who need more than a few pounds lost per year to stay interested, I don't see any problem with occasionally doing a three day fast or doing 400-500 calories twice a week, or even eating a single food for a week. When one considers the amount of disease attributed to obesity, I believe that anything that doesn't harm a person is a good way to lose weight.

                    I know I always come back to quitting smoking, but I find that the same people who would be fine with someone taking an antidepressant to quit smoking are far more critical of people who want to lose weight taking short cuts. So, even people who are "into health," don't take the problems of obesity seriously. It's not a vanity thing. A person who smokes will probably die of something related to smoking. But it is also true that a morbidly obese person will also most likely die from something related to that obesity.
                    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                    B*tch-lite

                    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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                    • #55
                      Good post. I do see this as a lifestyle. So far, I feel terrific eating this way. I exercise harder than Mark would recommend (I do P90X) but it feels good to me and does not feel like I'm overtraining. I did Insanity for a while and that DID feel like I was overtraining and I stopped. But the dietary component of PB is working for me and I feel great. I see no reason why I can't do this for life. Over the holidays I kept things very moderate and only went off-plan for Thanksgiving and New Years and I lost 11 lbs during that time period. I don't have a bunch of cravings for sweets and junk and don't want to sabotage the work I've done so far by eating a bunch of crap.
                      High Weight: 225
                      Weight at start of Primal: 189
                      Current Weight: 174
                      Goal Weight: 130

                      Primal Start Date: 11/26/2012

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                      • #56
                        Love this thread

                        Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                        From some stuff I've read, whether we crash off the weight or follow the solid 2 lbs/wk advice, most of us will put it back on within five years. Part of it is lack of planning or the mindset that diet is a temporary thing
                        Very true. I have a childhood friend who has struggled with his weight for his whole life. I have no idea what the stats are, but he's yo-yoed between slim and borderline obese, many times. Last time I met him he told me that he's lost and gained half a tonne in his life

                        Nutrition is a vital component to being the right weight for you, but for many people there's an emotional aspect too. I think there needs to be a holistic approach or it doesn't work, long term. You can sort out the outer problem til you deal with the inner.

                        Originally posted by Leida View Post
                        Exactly. Even if restrictions do not at the first glance appear to be severe or crazy it can potentially trigger really bad reactions. Been there. I know, it's hard to believe, but I think a lot of us are self-medicating through food instinctively. And if you happen to self-medicated through a white potato or banana, and the Whole 30 tells you not to eat it, or you gotta drop bananas to cut down the BF%, well, the end result is unlikely to be a success.

                        I am supplementing magnesium, after experiencing leg cramps of my lifetime. I did not before because I love, just love buckwheat and ate it all my life before going paleo. Coincidence?

                        Actually, that for me would lead to Bobert's statement about the potato diet - it might be gaining so much attention because the restriction on the potatoes is not the high point of the Primal. It makes a very acute point, contrasting the satiation mechanisms of a ketonic vs resistant starch. However, if you look at the data, there is always a portion of people who try who do stellar on either. Hunger shuts down, they feel happy and not obsessed with food - they managed to re-acquire the nutrient and the chemicals that balanced their system. Fasting works the same for a number of people. However, in all likelihood, most people are not so strongly attuned or so well adjusted to succeed on the restrictions. The wider the variety of foods they eat that do not hurt them the more is the likelihood that they are satisfying their body needs.
                        Beautifully said.
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

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                        • #57
                          it is in the Old Book

                          Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                          Yal, there's a new fast thread too.
                          There is a new more fat thread too.

                          I dont know, I dont see the big deal of people tweaking primal to meet their goals. Even Mark writes of eating things (like sweet tators & tators) to knock you off a plateau. He also writes of eating seasonally, which means lots of whatever, and if I am not mistaken, that is what his other new book will be about.

                          So while it might not be in this book, sounds like it might be in the next one. And that might not be the right context, I don't know. But when you see new studies, new experiments, new information, some things might be subject to change. That is why PB was written in the first place, to go against the grain of CW in an attempt to get some new ideas and new thinking out there. Sometimes what we think is, isn't and what we think isn't, is. (I know, that's deep. It just came to me)
                          his old book on page 268
                          Primal approved at a glance.Very Bottom of the page.

                          one more reason to get the book

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by cmlloyd View Post
                            his old book on page 268
                            Primal approved at a glance.Very Bottom of the page.

                            one more reason to get the book
                            I had to get up out of my cozy "nest" and go look! And I can't find my book. I checked both "libraries" and other potential places. I did find my 21 Day transformation though

                            I didnt have this kindle thing on my computer when I bought it. I wish I would have. Would be nice to have it at my fingertips.
                            65lbs gone and counting!!

                            Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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                            • #59
                              If you have PB on your kindle you can go to amazon and read it in the cloud on your computer. So you have it both places.
                              Last edited by tapper47; 12-29-2012, 08:40 AM. Reason: typo

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                              • #60
                                Oh no, I meant I didnt have that, or know about it, when I bought my PB. It wasnt until I bought PHD at Amazon that I realized I could get that Cloud thing on my computer. But thanks for the info though. I feel like I have fallen behind the times with most of the recent technologies. Much past the laptop & flip phone, boggles my brain
                                65lbs gone and counting!!

                                Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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