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  • #16
    I'm in the "it's not a real diagnosis" camp. Also, I'd be wary of anyone who thinks it's appropriate to diagnose a person with any sort of adrenal insufficiency without an ACTH stimulation test.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by EyeOfRound View Post
      I'm in the "it's not a real diagnosis" camp. Also, I'd be wary of anyone who thinks it's appropriate to diagnose a person with any sort of adrenal insufficiency without an ACTH stimulation test.

      Can you tell us why you think it's not a real diagnosis? Why is no cortisol, addisons and people feel like death, but low cortisol is somehow nothing? When people feel like crap, but not as crap as those with addisons?

      Is it a non diagnosis because you didn't learn about it at medical school?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Rueben View Post
        Can you tell us why you think it's not a real diagnosis? Why is no cortisol, addisons and people feel like death, but low cortisol is somehow nothing? When people feel like crap, but not as crap as those with addisons?
        Addison's isn't NO cortisol. I was diagnosed with Addison's last year and my cortisol was nowhere near 0! You'd be dead before a diagnosis if that was the case.

        There is a progression of Addison's (which is often why it takes a long time to be diagnosed, but the adrenal destruction is there from the beginning (tests would show the presence of anti-adrenal antibodies). When I was first diagnosed my cortisol was still in the *normal* range. But my ACTH was sky high and my ACTH stim test did not double or even get close to where it should have been.

        I'm not saying that adrenal fatigue doesn't exist (I'm still on the fence about that one), what I am saying is that before deciding a person has adrenal fatigue they need to rule out something more serious and not try and self treat.

        I also have to say I disagree with your doctor, Rueben - for most, the adrenals will not immediately start working again when you stop taking hydrocortisone. For most people there will (or at least should) be a very slow weaning (many people with steroid induced adrenal insufficency take about 2 YEARS to wean off their steroids and it is a very difficult journey). Failing to wean off slowly could lead to an adrenal crisis which can be fatal of not recongized as such and treated immediately! I'm not saying YOUR dr. isn't knowledgable and isn't treating YOUR case correctly, what I'm saying is that OTHERS need to seek out appropriate medical attention and make sure that whomever is treating them knows exactly what they are doing - this isn't something that should be treated on ones own.

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        • #19
          Weaning off even a steroid inhaler sucked majorly for me, and that was nowhere near what someone experiences coming off oral steroids. I was miserable. On the other hand, that was better than continuing to live with the side effects of taking a steroid medication daily.

          But anyhow, sbhikes, before you jump to adrenal fatigue (which I also question, not the possibility of it but the frequency with which it is diagnosed in questionable circumstances and the poor research out there supporting diagnosis and treatment), I'd suggest considering that you're simply pushing your body too hard too fast. Lifting weights is good, but I read about how long you are working out and how often, and I think you should consider reducing the training volume first.

          Yes, you read in stuff like SS that one should lift several days a week, and you may be talking to women on your weightlifting board who say you should be able to train more. However, you should listen to your body's responses over a book written with young men as a primary audience. And the women in that group may be younger, more experienced at lifting, more adapted to recovery, or (shockingly!) even not entirely honest with others or themselves about how they're feeling. I know I have had times when I did not want to admit how crappy I felt with high training volumes because that would mean admitting it to myself and needing to change things too, and also feeling virtuously crappy can be addictive.

          What is your average workout looking like currently?
          “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

          Owly's Journal

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          • #20
            The thing with the weights is previously I had been taking a group fitness class twice a week and I never could adapt to it. I was always sore for days afterwards, crippling soreness sometimes like not being able to roll over in bed or having trouble lowering myself to the toilet. I kept hoping that I'd get strong enough for this class eventually but it never happened.

            I started that class a year ago because things like bending over to clean the tub or pull weeds would leave me similarly crippled. Since I don't clean my tub or pull weeds very often, I thought the class would help build enough resilience not to make housecleaning such a devastating occurrence for my body.

            The class basically didn't help me and became its own problem, so I thought maybe a real strength training program would help me. It tends to leave me not quite as cripplingly sore as the class, the tub or the weeds. Instead it sort of wipes me out. Meanwhile, although supposedly I'm getting stronger, doing something other than weight training, such as sprinting or an extra long hike, still leaves me with incredible DOMS that lasts for days. I can't seem to adapt to anything and it's been a really long time that it's been like this.

            How on earth did my obese, 80-year-old grandmother ever pull weeds and clean house up to her last days? Even my image of her in my mind is her big blue stretch pants bent over in the back yard.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              Of course you have DOMS. You have recently taken up a serious weight lifting program. The pain goes away under stress because of the endogenous morphine (endorphins) the body produces in response to stress or trauma. The caffeine is a vaso-dialator which is why it is the main ingredient in Excedrine for headaches.

              I would suggest backing off the intensity a bit (not necessarily the frequency). I know weight lifting can be addictive but you don't really have to stack all those plates on the bar today, build up more gradually.
              Originally posted by Owly View Post
              Before you jump to adrenal fatigue (which I also question, not the possibility of it but the frequency with which it is diagnosed in questionable circumstances and the poor research out there supporting diagnosis and treatment), I'd suggest considering that you're simply pushing your body too hard too fast. Lifting weights is good, but I read about how long you are working out and how often, and I think you should consider reducing the training volume first.

              Yes, you read in stuff like SS that one should lift several days a week, and you may be talking to women on your weightlifting board who say you should be able to train more. However, you should listen to your body's responses over a book written with young men as a primary audience. And the women in that group may be younger, more experienced at lifting, more adapted to recovery, or (shockingly!) even not entirely honest with others or themselves about how they're feeling. I know I have had times when I did not want to admit how crappy I felt with high training volumes because that would mean admitting it to myself and needing to change things too, and also feeling virtuously crappy can be addictive.
              OK that's two votes for taking a look at your workouts as maybe overdoing it a bit.
              Yep, virtuously crappy can be addictive. BTDT. Those of us who are not 25 anymore need to be honest with ourselves and kind to our bodies. Not saying don't train, just not that hard that fast.
              Last edited by Paleobird; 12-20-2012, 01:21 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                OK that's two votes for taking a look at your workouts as maybe overdoing it a bit.
                Yep, virtuously crappy can be addictive. BTDT. Those of us who are not 25 anymore need to be honest with ourselves and kind to our bodies. Not saying don't train, just not that hard that fast.
                Sbhikes had you thought about polymyalgia? I know we don't want to diagnose ourselves but the pain and muscle soreness sounds similar to a friend of mine.

                Doctors told her she would be on high dose steroids for the rest of her life but she went to a natural practitioner who gave her a herb (don't know what it was) and told her it was leaky gut and or Candida dieoff or something.

                She's great now...

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                • #23
                  Well, the one thing that keeps me from calling up one of these naturopaths is that they all prominently display homeopathy as one of their services. I consider homeopathy to be total bullshit. Makes me wonder about the rest of their services. There are a lot of fruitcakes in Santa Barbara and a lot of trophy wives who like to find weird things to keep them occupied.
                  Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                  • #24
                    Oddly I feel fine today. I wonder if I have simply been sick the past few weeks. I never catch colds anymore but maybe I had something else?
                    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                    • #25
                      Sometimes you can have something like a cold virus that your body is fighting off, so you don't really get much for symptoms but you can feel run down because the immune system is still under stress.
                      “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                      Owly's Journal

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        Oddly I feel fine today. I wonder if I have simply been sick the past few weeks. I never catch colds anymore but maybe I had something else?
                        Yep a low grade flu would do that. You could have been healthy enough to not have it knock you down but still be under stress from it while fighting it off.

                        And I totally agree that homeopathy is woo-sci as is "muscle testing" to see what supplements to sell you that a lot of such practitioners do.

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                        • #27
                          I think I'm still going to go get some kind of test somewhere. Thanks for the heads up on "muscle testing". I'll turn that down if I'm offered it.
                          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                            I think I'm still going to go get some kind of test somewhere. Thanks for the heads up on "muscle testing". I'll turn that down if I'm offered it.
                            Not only turn it down but question the integrity of any practitioner who offers it.

                            For anybody who might not know what "muscle testing" is, they put a jar of a supplement in your hand without telling you what it is and, based on if you spontaneously drop the jar or grab on to it, they then know what to sell you. This is based on the woo premise that your body can somehow "sense the energy" in the supplement that is inside a jar and know which one you need. Yeahright.

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                            • #29
                              funnily enuf my middle child had wicked reflux when she was a baby and my midwife sent me to see a cranial osteopath. he muscle tested me for foods which were upsetting her and was spot on. he actually said he didnt really know how it worked and that it did seem a bit woo woo to him, but he reckoned it worked. he didnt use it to sell anything to me either, just to ID problem foods. he also fixed her. which gave me a total bum steer as i moved to the other side of the country, my youngest was even worse and didnt sleep and none of the alternative peeps here could fix her. i even had an incident where a very well recommended homeopath who specialised in kids misread her notes and sent us the wrong remedy. then when i rung her to question her choice. it seemed a bit bizarre to me to give a non vaccinated child a remedy for a vax reaction. she said LMAO just give her some peppermint if you are worried. Note she had never once said to me "dont use peppermint toothpaste" so yeah, long story short. i think you are better off with google and a book!

                              back on topic. i find if i get into the sugar now i get sort of low grade malaise and head aches and general aches which last for a week or so.

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                              • #30
                                Craniosacral therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                                Cranial osteopathy – Bad Science

                                Sorry, Seaweed, but I would consider anyone practicing cranial osteopathy to be either self deluding or a fraud. The fact that such a practitioner relies on muscle testing doesn't say good things about muscle testing.

                                Sorry for the derail, SB. How are you feeling?

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