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  • #61
    Originally posted by Primal Moose View Post
    I'll never understand the whole shelter in place bullshit. You have an active shooter trying to kill you. YOU. GET. THE. FUCK. OUT!
    Yes, let's blame the teachers who just endured this nightmare, not the fake-populist rhetoric of trade industry lobbyists who pretend not to see the words "well regulated".

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Rojo View Post
      Yes, let's blame the teachers who just endured this nightmare, not the fake-populist rhetoric of trade industry lobbyists who pretend not to see the words "well regulated".
      Thank you for missing the whole point, moron.

      And let me say, speaking as someone working on becoming a teacher myself, yes, sometimes teachers are to blame for certain things. Listening to a shelter in place plan and telling their students to just sit there and be quiet with no cover or protection but a locked door when there is a first story window right there and an active shooter across the hall, yes they are to blame for listening to those orders. They were not heroes. They did not save anyone. They got LUCKY.

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      • #63
        Sandy Hook School Shooting: Run for your life!
        Yesterday I listed on CNN Radio to one emotional mother talk about how her six year old son survived the terrible shooting tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School. She had always told him if someone comes into the school with a gun he should run away.

        This advice probably saved her son's life. The shooter came into the classroom, standing at the door and shot this child's teacher. The six year old, rather than hiding in the classroom or just staring in shock, had the presence of mind to follow his mother's advice and ran for the door, running past the shooter still standing there. He and a couple of his buddies ran down the hall and out of the school where a Good Samaritan woman picked them up and took them to the town's police station.

        What a horrific thing for a six year old to watch and now have to live with for the rest of his life. I heard another father who said that day he was supposed to come to the school that day in the afternoon to make ginger bread houses. A little factoid that will never be forgotten. Such a senseless waste of human life and well being for that school and all the people who now have to have survival techniques drilled into them.

        This is exactly what needs to happen. Tell anyone, children, teens, adults that the one key survival technique in a shooting incident is to run away, even if it means running past the shooter. Your chances go way up by doing this. I say that "Repetition is the Mother of Remembering." It is not enough to give this message just once. It has to be repeated again and again. A couple of months from now repeat the message. I remember my father always saying, "Safety First" it was drilled into him and he drilled it into me.

        I still recommend the Run-Hide-Fight Back video (Run, Hide, Fight: Video shows how to survive a shooting attack) for adults who might be subject to workplace violence. Note the first survival technique is to run--which is the most appropriate for kids. Hiding can work too, but fighting back on an adult is not recommended.
        Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Rojo View Post
          Yes, let's blame the teachers who just endured this nightmare, not the fake-populist rhetoric of trade industry lobbyists who pretend not to see the words "well regulated".
          Define "well regulated". That's so subjective everyone will have their definition of what "well regulated" means to them. Professional political operatives know that so they use phrases like, the rich don't pay their "fair share".

          Nothing has stopped the drug trade. Are illegal drugs not well regulated enough? The irony is that a lot of people who want illegal drugs legalized due to the black market and inability to police them are some of the same people arguing for making classes of guns illegal. Why will it be any different? Won't it simply create another black market?

          When more info comes out about Adam Lanza it won't be a surprising if he's been legally prescribed psychotropic drug(s).
          Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Primal Moose View Post
            They were not heroes. They did not save anyone. They got LUCKY.
            Yeah, some luck.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Rojo View Post
              Yeah, some luck.
              Yes. And lots of it. Had he chosen to, he had more than enough time and ammunition to kill several more rooms full of children before police would have stopped him. They are extremely lucky. By having those kids just sit there, by not making escape a priority over just hiding, the body count could have been MUCH higher.

              That needs to be talked about. We need to stop calling all these teachers heroes simply because we are desperate to find some kind of positive, no matter how small, to cling to out of this tragedy. We need a dose of reality. They are not heroes. They saved nobody. The action of locking the door and turning off the light and just sitting there did nothing but create targets. They are lucky that the body count is not higher. Until we face that reality and address that issue, things will not change and when this happens again, more people will die than "need" to.

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              • #67
                I don't think there is majority voter support in the US for significant gun restrictions, irrespective of the opinions of various OT participants.

                In any case, the real problem isn't the weapons used, it's the crazy persons using them.

                There are lots of guns out there, mostly owned by law abiding individuals. Fortunately, the number of psychopathic teens is much much smaller.

                Sane, law abiding individuals don't shoot up schools. Neither for that matter do hardened gang criminals. Only crazy people do. In particular, psychopaths and paranoid schizophrenics.

                Most often such individuals display recognizable behaviors...threats of harm to family members or themselves...in their early teens. If we would focus on how to detect such individuals, and re-establish (at a socially acceptable quality level) institutions for their indefinite separation and if possible treatment, we would have gone much farther toward solving the school-attack problem than any anti-gun-sales governmental actions could accomplish.

                If we want to solve this problem, we have to address its actual cause. The cause is not the existence of weapons, and nothing that is anything close to politically feasible is going to eliminate those weapons. Let's instead get to the real issue, which is the small number of individuals who regrettably are psychopathic or paranoid schizophrenic and are presently free to interact with society as they see fit.
                Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                Current Weight: 235 pounds
                Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by kenn View Post
                  Let's instead get to the real issue, which is the small number of individuals who regrettably are psychopathic or paranoid schizophrenic and are presently free to interact with society as they see fit.
                  So they shouldn't be "free to interact with society" but they should have access to guns?

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Scott F View Post
                    Define "well regulated".
                    "Regulated" -- that's clear. "Well" -- mean strongly regulated. Pretty.damn.clear.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                      So they shouldn't be "free to interact with society" but they should have access to guns?
                      What?

                      Ignoratio elenchi
                      Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                      Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                      Current Weight: 235 pounds
                      Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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                      • #71
                        The action of locking the door and turning off the light and just sitting there did nothing but create targets
                        i did think when i read this it was a mighty strange thing to do. but then i think people also freeze and panic in these situations. i saw a doco years ago that was about how you could be predisposed to survive a tradgedy. they interviewed some survivors of a plane crash in england in the late 80s maybe 90s where a plane caught on fire on the runway and 100 odd people got burnt. apparently there were people going to the back of the plane to collect their luggage. the ones that survived got the hell out without hanging around. i have a gun and i know how hard it is to shoot a moving target. semi autos would skew that a bit in the shooter's favour as they can just keep shooting till the magazine is empty so less need to aim properly. still. it is prob worth us all teaching our kids what to do in this situation.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                          "Regulated" -- that's clear. "Well" -- mean strongly regulated. Pretty.damn.clear.
                          "The distinction between a well-regulated army and a mob is the good order and discipline of the first, and the licentious and disorderly behavior of the latter." --George Washington

                          Militia: civilians trained as soldiers but not part of the regular army

                          So the clear definition of a well regulated militia would be ordered, disciplined, NON-professional/civilian soldiers.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                            "Regulated" -- that's clear. "Well" -- mean strongly regulated. Pretty.damn.clear.
                            The only thing that's clear is you are arguing out of emotionalism. That fact is Lanza did not even use the bushmaster. He left it in the car. Banning ARs would not have changed anything. I gave a rational argument for using ARs as the rifle of choice for thinning feral hogs. Henry Repeaters are a poor substitute. Texas Parks and Wildlife est that 60-70% of the hog population has to be culled each year just to keep the number stable. What's your solution to states with feral hog problems?
                            Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                              So they shouldn't be "free to interact with society" but they should have access to guns?
                              are you for real? do you think this nutball actually purchased the guns legally? how did he, like so many other nutballs before him, get the guns? he killed his mother and stole her guns. someone like him could never purchase guns legally. so you would plan to impose more stringent regulations on the sane people who want to own guns for hunting/recreation/self defense, but do nothing about the mentally ill and various other varieties of scumbag who commit crimes with illegal or stolen guns. THINK about it....

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                              • #75
                                The school is about seven miles as she flies from where I'm presently sitting. A friend of mine was there, and only made it out unharmed due to some quick thinking and a whole lot of luck.

                                I have ZERO patience for the proposal that we take a policy that left a very vulnerable population exposed to the first madman to make it through the door, whereupon TWENTY-SIX OF THEM DIED, and extrapolate it to another three hundred million people.

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