Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Hobbit, vegetarianism, and the cult of inn

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
    It was my understanding that the LOTR series of books was a commentary on industrialization. Naturally one would look to the pastoral and agricultural good old days as the better days. Even the Bible sings praises to the pastoral good old days. This is all not much different from us who look all the way back to the paleolithic good old days. Plus there's a long long long long history of wolves and bears being the bad guys in fairy tales.
    It also bears repeating that Tolkien took liberties with the Old Norse legends that he derived inspiration from... much like Marvel's version of Thor.
    Peak weight on Standard American Diet: 316.8 lbs
    Initial Weight When Starting Primal: 275 lbs
    Current weight: 210.8 lbs
    Goal weight: 220 lbs (or less): MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

    The way "ChooseMyPlate.gov" should have looked:
    ChooseMyPlate

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by keithpowers View Post
      Geri and Freki, the war-worn one [Odin] feeds,
      that Host-father [Odin] famed of old;
      but on wine alone, weapon-fine, Odin ever lives.
      Yeah, Odin didn't eat food, but he gave all his food to his wolves and since wolves are carnivores, that means they must have served a primarily meat based menu at Valhalla.
      My Recipes are at: www.southbeachprimal.com

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by SouthBeachPrimal View Post
        Yeah, Odin didn't eat food, but he gave all his food to his wolves and since wolves are carnivores, that means they must have served a primarily meat based menu at Valhalla.
        Lambchops for everyone!
        You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.
        ~Friedrich Nietzsche
        And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
          It was my understanding that the LOTR series of books was a commentary on industrialization.
          It wasn't a commentary on anything, Tolkien made it clear that there was no allegory in the LOTR, it's all explained in the forward or introduction or something.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by SouthBeachPrimal View Post
            Yeah, Odin didn't eat food, but he gave all his food to his wolves and since wolves are carnivores, that means they must have served a primarily meat based menu at Valhalla.
            From the Grimnismal:
            They [the Einherjar] feast from Shrmnir (here described as a boar), and that this beast is cooked every day and is again whole every night.

            Pork was fed to the chosen warriors... Greedy and Ravenous (Geri and Freki) were fed "Ygg's Barley" which was a poetic kenning for the bodies of the slain.
            Peak weight on Standard American Diet: 316.8 lbs
            Initial Weight When Starting Primal: 275 lbs
            Current weight: 210.8 lbs
            Goal weight: 220 lbs (or less): MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

            The way "ChooseMyPlate.gov" should have looked:
            ChooseMyPlate

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by keithpowers View Post
              From the Grimnismal:
              They [the Einherjar] feast from Shrmnir (here described as a boar), and that this beast is cooked every day and is again whole every night.

              Pork was fed to the chosen warriors... Greedy and Ravenous (Geri and Freki) were fed "Ygg's Barley" which was a poetic kenning for the bodies of the slain.
              Ygg=Odin. Barley=fermentation. I know there is no barley in wine but perhaps Odin is a blood drinker?

              Also Beorn always made me think of Bodvar Bjarki, if only for the bear thing.
              In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

              Comment


              • #22
                Well ... We've all had fun with that.

                Here's something else loosely related and with a seasonal twist.

                Interesting piece on the folkloric roots of Father Christmas.

                What I hadn't known was that Odin was one of the roots. Pre-eminently a god of strife, lord of the slain, father of the valkyrjur, cultic god of berserkers & shape-shifters, untrustworthy & a breaker of promises. Imagine him coming down the chimney!

                Who Is Father Christmas?

                Tolkien apparently preferred to speak of Father Christmas than of Santa Claus. The latter is much newer and far more debased. The red livery seems to go back only to the 1930s and to have been a move by the Coca-Cola company, whose product uses red. He may appear in red before this date, but it's certainly not a given.

                Coca-Cola!! It's enough to disgust any self-respecting primal. Time the iconography of Christmas was reclaimed from the ad-men.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Alex Good View Post
                  Ygg=Odin. Barley=fermentation. I know there is no barley in wine but perhaps Odin is a blood drinker?

                  Also Beorn always made me think of Bodvar Bjarki, if only for the bear thing.
                  If you look at the traditional methods of threshing and gathering the grains, the beating of the sheafs of wheat/barley/oats was usually done on a flat area with a hard floor (packed dirt, stone, etc), and the scattered grains were as bodies on the battlefield, hence "Ygg's barley". Odin drinks mead... not blood. That's a Christian convention.
                  Peak weight on Standard American Diet: 316.8 lbs
                  Initial Weight When Starting Primal: 275 lbs
                  Current weight: 210.8 lbs
                  Goal weight: 220 lbs (or less): MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

                  The way "ChooseMyPlate.gov" should have looked:
                  ChooseMyPlate

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by keithpowers View Post
                    Odin drinks mead... not blood.
                    inn drank the mead of inspiration (and, yes, Alex, that had been made from Kvasir's blood), but I don't know that mead is usually thought of as his drink.

                    One poem at least -- it slips my mind which -- has it that he drinks only wine. That would hardly be surprising: wine is what the noble couple drink in the Rgsula.

                    Wine is for nobles -- and the "old and wise". Maybe that's why Mark drinks it. LOL.
                    Last edited by Lewis; 12-03-2012, 11:13 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                      What I hadn't known was that Odin was one of the roots. Pre-eminently a god of strife, lord of the slain, father of the valkyrjur, cultic god of berserkers & shape-shifters, untrustworthy & a breaker of promises. Imagine him coming down the chimney!
                      From what I've read of him most of those chimneys he came down would've been unwilling. Oh and I've read that about the wine as well.

                      Keith: I wasn't basing my guess on christian folklore. I was just connecting barley to fermentation and bodies to blood.
                      In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        From what I've read of him most of those chimneys he came down would've been unwilling.
                        I thought he had spells for that.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Keith: I wasn't basing my guess on christian folklore.
                          Folklore? I assumed he meant the communion wine -- which was, of course, understood to be also blood in some sense.

                          But blood understood in some sacramental sense is hardly uniquely Christian. See for example Psalm 50, which is not, of course, originally a Christian document, and in which the psalmist takes a somewhat sceptical view of Yahweh's hunger -- something his contemporaries presumably wouldn't have.

                          I think one can pretty much take to the bank that many early peoples saw the blood as a particularly efficacious part of sacrifice, and many may also have believed that the gods drank it.

                          Did anyone in Dark Age Scandinavia believe anything of the sort. I don't know, and I think it would be difficult to determine now.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I wouldn't be surprised if Beorn the shapeshifter was vegan. After all, if he wasn't, then no matter what meat he ate, he would have been cannibalistic.

                            Originally posted by Grok View Post
                            It wasn't a commentary on anything, Tolkien made it clear that there was no allegory in the LOTR, it's all explained in the forward or introduction or something.
                            It is believed that Tolkien was referring to specific analogies dreamed up by the idealistic soul-searching hippies in the 60's, which is when the books became popular. Readers made unrealistic one-on-one comparisons, like the Ring is a nuclear bomb, Sauron is Satan, Saruman is Hitler trying to make a perfect race of Orc. I don't know if they got as far as Frodo being Christ. The Forward was written as an answer to those allegories.

                            Tolkien's themes of good vs. evil and destroying of nature are broader, older, were intended.
                            5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by oxide View Post
                              It is believed that Tolkien was referring to specific analogies dreamed up by the idealistic soul-searching hippies in the 60's
                              "It is believed" !! ROTFL

                              Believed by whom? That would be quite difficult. In the first place, he started writing his material decades before that. In the second place, he wasn't a "hippy" but an Oxford University philologist with no interest in avoiding work or taking drugs.

                              I think "not an allegory" begs quite a few questions. If that's to mean "isn't meant to be read as though it were some kind of obfuscated equation -- this "stands for" that and so on" ... by all means. But then that isn't what allegory does anyway. If that were what allegory did, there would be no point in it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                                "It is believed" !! ROTFL

                                Believed by whom? That would be quite difficult. In the first place, he started writing his material decades before that. In the second place, he wasn't a "hippy" but an Oxford University philologist with no interest in avoiding work or taking drugs.
                                If I recall, JRR wrote an introduction for the second edition of LoTR, decades after the books were written. A quote, attributed to that introduction but of unknown providence since my copies are, wait, I don't have a copy...goes: "It is neither allegorical nor topical.... I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence." -- J.R.R. Tolkien

                                That seems pretty clear that he was denying any allegory. That doesn't mean someone couldn't read meaning into it, or that he didn't have some subconscious thoughts shaping the story he told - all art contains that, and it isn't necessarily allegory even though it can be interpreted allegorically - but either any 'whom' in answer to your question is wrong or JRR was lying.
                                Last edited by Him; 12-04-2012, 02:32 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X