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  • #46
    Blackcatbone, yep, yep and yep, but we're not talking about hindsight wisdom or a perfect world, I was pointing out how the very subject instantly brings out a "Men are at best too lazy and stupid, plus they'd lie to get laid" attitude.

    In other words, what actually happens when this subject is raised.

    Generally a pretty major part of sex is trust. Yeah for both sexes. Yet your knee-jerk reaction is 'men can't be trusted'? So that includes the men that you trust enough to have sex with, perhaps trust enough to marry, to raise your kids and all that - but contraception? Oh heck no!

    OK, so you're NOW sliding sideways and claiming you presumed or are only talking about casual sex, perhaps casual sex between drunk teenagers or something - but what you said was (and really I'm not picking on you, just curious how this always happens):

    Just so you know -- I would never trust a male who tells me that he's got birth control covered. So long as I'm the one getting pregnant
    My bolding.

    Never means never and since your husband isn't the one getting pregnant we're left to presume you are including all and any men, including husbands etc.

    Anyway, I've made my point, simply that I find it curious how women seem to think the concept of men having more contraceptive choice calls for men to be declared untrustworthy and, on some other forums, a lot worse.

    Really it's bizarre the arguments it can cause. Neo-nazis talking about birth rates and all sorts. Crazy. But I'm pretty much gonna bow out now, as I really can't asked to engage in a discussion where I get insulted. Part of being primal is avoiding stress and I just don't need that.



    AC

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    • #47
      Originally posted by AlanC View Post
      OK, so you're NOW sliding sideways and claiming you presumed or are only talking about casual sex, perhaps casual sex between drunk teenagers or something - but what you said was (and really I'm not picking on you, just curious how this always happens):

      Just so you know -- I would never trust a male who tells me that he's got birth control covered. So long as I'm the one getting pregnant
      My bolding.

      Never means never and since your husband isn't the one getting pregnant we're left to presume you are including all and any men, including husbands etc.

      Anyway, I've made my point, simply that I find it curious how women seem to think the concept of men having more contraceptive choice calls for men to be declared untrustworthy and, on some other forums, a lot worse.

      Really it's bizarre the arguments it can cause. Neo-nazis talking about birth rates and all sorts. Crazy. But I'm pretty much gonna bow out now, as I really can't asked to engage in a discussion where I get insulted. Part of being primal is avoiding stress and I just don't need that.



      AC
      I never said that, I was quoting the initial statement that you referenced. From the get go I separated casual from serious. I assumed the person meant casual, as anyone who was in a long term relationship with someone they felt that way about, well, unless there was some kind of coercion happening, has other issues.
      Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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      • #48
        I never said that, I was quoting the initial statement that you referenced
        Oops, my mistake! Sorry about that



        AC

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        • #49
          Originally posted by AlanC View Post
          No, those are super-duper awesome alternatives to 16-20 years of child support, the emotional drain of thinking about a child you (statistically likely) are not allowed to see (hard to forget when still paying for them for years) and the crippling effect losing such a chunk of your future income can have on having children later that you DO want.

          I've seen it happen to too many guys.
          And you assume I haven't? I think unplanned, unwanted pregnancies pretty much suck for everyone. I also know all too well what happens when a dad who wants to parent is cut out. I have a sister I've only seen a handful of times in my life. You want me not to assume things about you, don't assume things about me.

          Also, 16-20 years of child support is somehow worse than 16-20 years of raising a child when you didn't want to be pregnant? Women don't lose a chunk of their personal income when they raise children? Raising a child alone isn't emotionally draining? Adoption isn't traumatic for women? I don't think unwanted pregnancy is all shits and giggles for anyone. Better to prevent the whole mess, really. And if a woman wants to prevent all that, she's far better off making sure (as much as possible) that she doesn't get pregnant, and the best way to do that is to make sure she controls her own fertility and not simply trust that someone else has it covered, just as any sensible man who doesn't want to get a woman pregnant should do the same.

          I think nobody should believe someone they don't know and trust when it comes to birth control, regardless of gender. It's not about men vs. women, it's about people having control over their reproductive choices, and that includes the right to ask someone to put a condom on or to use one if one does not have absolute confidence that they are disease free and have another effective birth control option in use. That's not about men being evil or lazy or whatever--it's about not being an idiot when it comes to sex.

          Likewise this is something I noticed before - whenever a guy speaks up in favor, he gets attacked as though HE is somehow the problem, can't get laid, hates women or some other such slur. In other words, you attack the messenger?
          Right, but the attitude that us bitches are just all out to get men and use reproduction as a mode of control is totally positive and non-confrontational. And the dismissal of the shitty outcomes that exist for women who have unwanted pregnancies as easier or less emotionally/financially difficult than men's is rather ridiculous. It's a crap deal on all sides.

          I'm glad you are in a happy relationship where you can make reproductive choices together. Not everyone has that, and in those cases, trusting someone else to be responsible for whether or not a pregnancy occurs is very naive.
          “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

          Owly's Journal

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          • #50
            A little rational scepticism is a good thing. As in, s/he is probably telling the truth, but I'm an adult, so I want to be in control of contraception also.

            This whole women bad/men bad thing is stupid. How can one possibly enjoy bumping uglies with someone who is a member of a gender one distrusts that much? If I felt that way about the opposite sex, I'd either get myself a BOB (battery operated boyfriend) or just do it to myself. Jeez.
            "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

            B*tch-lite

            Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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            • #51
              i don't think it's anger, per se. more like 'oh helllll naw, son'

              and that attitude generally comes from experience with someone saying one thing then doing another.

              immature liars come in both sexes
              beautiful
              yeah you are

              Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
              lol

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