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  • #31
    I want the shot and an official hologramed card showing I get the shot.

    I'm not getting snipped, I don't need any mini-Wanderlusts running around and condoms suck.
    "Go For Broke"
    Fat Kine-230/24% @ 6'2"
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    • #32
      Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
      Also... for any guys fearing the vasectomy... my brother has had it done, uncle, husband, several other friends and family members... all of them zero complications and 'back in business' in just a few days.

      Had to wait until they tested clean to 'fire at will' sans protection of course! But you know...

      The pain was really minimal.
      My husband says it was the best decision he ever made.
      This is reassuring, and I'm sure that for most people who get this done, there are no complications or anything, but for those 2%, it must be hell, and my husband is really paranoid he'll be one of the unlucky few.


      Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
      He did it because at 30, with an 11 yr old child and medical issues that meant I SHOULD NOT have any more children because of extremely high risk, the Gyn doctors gave me a huge hassle about wanting to get myself sterilized. I would have to sigh waivers, they wanted me to have a waiting period. The doctors were down right rude. My husband was appalled that I was treated as if I was incapable of making up my own mind on matters of my own reproductive health. This is actually pretty common. I've spoken to many women who were treated the same way... all by different doctors. It seems to be standard practice.
      It's ridiculous. And this is even though it's easier to reverse a female tubal ligation. Or at least create a pregnancy via implantation later. Not that big a deal these days.
      There is a huge issue with double standards in the medical community on this issue.
      Husband had zero children, same age, and they had the paperwork and prescriptions already filled out when he showed up to be examined for his consultation. He came back one week later and *poof* vasectomy.
      I never thought about it this way, but this is totally true. I've mentioned at various gyno appts over the years that I was interested in getting a tubal ligation (the only thing holding me back was being worried about messing with my body too much, same reason I stopped taking hormonal BC), and they were always talking me out of it, saying things like, 'oh, you never know, someday you might change your mind...' regardless of what I said.

      Well actually, I do know that I will never change my mind about this thing. But a dude who wants a vasectomy, I doubt doctors try to talk them out of it the same way. Man, there's always one more thing to get outraged by!

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      • #33
        But a dude who wants a vasectomy, I doubt doctors try to talk them out of it the same way.
        Your assumption is incorrect. I have a buddy who's single, has no interest in children or marriage and around age 40 attempted to get a vasectomy. You can't believe the shit they put him through. He had to go to several docs before he could find one that would perform the procedure.

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        • #34
          I've seen this discussed before and it always strikes me how women seem to get quite defensive and angry at the idea of men having reliable birth control that doesn't mean killing the fun with condoms.

          Why the defensiveness and anger?



          AC

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          • #35
            Originally posted by AlanC View Post
            I've seen this discussed before and it always strikes me how women seem to get quite defensive and angry at the idea of men having reliable birth control that doesn't mean killing the fun with condoms.

            Why the defensiveness and anger?
            What defensiveness and anger? The only thing I can see is women not trusting that the man would A: be telling the truth or B: taking it seriously enough if it wasn't a permanent solution in a long term relationship. As long as women are the ones getting pregnant they do need to be that careful about contraceptive methods. My boyfriend had a vasectomy long before I met him and I couldn't be happier about it. Not only do I not have to worry about getting pregnant but he never wanted children (nor do I) and he never accidentally had any, meaning I don't have to deal with his kids. Win/win.
            Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by AlanC View Post
              I've seen this discussed before and it always strikes me how women seem to get quite defensive and angry at the idea of men having reliable birth control that doesn't mean killing the fun with condoms.

              Why the defensiveness and anger?



              AC
              Not sure where you got that from considering the number of women on this thread who've said it sounds like a great option for guys to have.

              Have you not realized that condoms kind of suck for us too? It's not just men's pleasure that they affect. I was delighted when my relationship reached the point that we felt comfortable ditching condoms in favour of other birth control methods.

              However, I'd rather have condoms than an STI, and if you don't have a monogamous partner who's clean and who you trust not to bring anything home, then wrapping it up is just common sense. Reminding people that preventing pregnancy doesn't necessarily prevent syphilis, HPV, chlamydia, HIV, gonorrhea, herpes...yeah, that's not defensive and angry, that's just plain common sense.

              I have worked as a sexual health educator, and looking at the stats, if I was a single person (male or female) out having sex with multiple partners, you can bet I'd be concerned about more than just pregnancy. We have a syphilis epidemic in this city, and while yes, it's treatable, I think it's smarter not to catch the disease in the first place.
              “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

              Owly's Journal

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              • #37
                Well, just skimming the previous page, three different women chip in to assure us how they'd never (ever) trust us men with birth control, even one that's permanent until deliberately reversed.

                I really, honestly, cannot imagine a bunch of men diving into a thread about a new form of women's birth control, declaring how they wouldn't trust the women to use it?

                Just so you know -- I would never trust a male who tells me that he's got birth control covered.
                Exactly.
                I totally agree with this.
                Of course we can all agree that one should take responsibility too, without relying on the person you trust enough to have sex with - yet isn't that the entire point of this new contraceptive option for men?

                That they could USE it, and therefore TAKE that responsibility?

                Yet your first response is to tell men you wouldn't trust them? Well thanks for that, but I guess us men will use it just the same.



                Sheesh.



                AC

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by mikebike View Post
                  Your assumption is incorrect. I have a buddy who's single, has no interest in children or marriage and around age 40 attempted to get a vasectomy. You can't believe the shit they put him through. He had to go to several docs before he could find one that would perform the procedure.
                  I think doctors just let the whole God-thing turn them into contrary assholes. I've known both sides, i.e., women who wanted to get their tubes tied but were discouraged, and women who felt they'd been rushed into hysterectomies before alternatives were tried. And now I see they pull this crap on men.

                  Maybe the trick is to go to the doc and say, "Please don't sterilize me, anything but that!" and see what happens.
                  "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                  B*tch-lite

                  Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by AlanC View Post
                    I really, honestly, cannot imagine a bunch of men diving into a thread about a new form of women's birth control, declaring how they wouldn't trust the women to use it?
                    Well, I would be the first man to say I wouldn't take a woman's word for it. If it was someone I was in a committed relationship then fine, but some random chick on the street? Hell no. You'd be a fool to believe her. And as others have said, I don't care if you have a note from 3 doctors saying you are on some kind of birthcontrol, unless the same notes also state you are STD free I'm putting a condom on. As for hating condoms, well, I think I would hate fire shooting out of my dick more than wearing a condom.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by AlanC View Post
                      Well, just skimming the previous page, three different women chip in to assure us how they'd never (ever) trust us men with birth control, even one that's permanent until deliberately reversed.

                      I really, honestly, cannot imagine a bunch of men diving into a thread about a new form of women's birth control, declaring how they wouldn't trust the women to use it?







                      Of course we can all agree that one should take responsibility too, without relying on the person you trust enough to have sex with - yet isn't that the entire point of this new contraceptive option for men?

                      That they could USE it, and therefore TAKE that responsibility?

                      Yet your first response is to tell men you wouldn't trust them? Well thanks for that, but I guess us men will use it just the same.



                      Sheesh.
                      But it's STILL women who would get pregnant if something went wrong. If it's a semi/permanent form in a committed relationship then I think most women are quite comfortable with that option. I'd love to see a show of hands from the women who've been with a guy who's said something along the lines of "Come on baby, I hate condoms, I promise to pull out on time" or any other excuse that is a pretty good indicator that a whole lot of men are less serious about their contraceptive methods when the opportunity for sex arises.* What if it's a pill they take daily and forget a day or two? What if they lie? If men want to protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies, great, I think that's a fantastic thing, but outside of a committed relationship where both parties trust each other I see it as a recipe for disaster for many women.


                      *By no means do I think all men are like this nor that all women would fall for it.
                      Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                      • #41
                        Canio, thanks for confirming something.

                        What if it's a pill they take daily and forget a day or two?
                        But we're not talking about anything like that, we're talking about something that lasts until the man deliberately goes to the doc and makes an appointment for it to be removed.

                        Besides which I still don't see, and don't think there ever was a time, when men would go out of their way to assure women they would not be trusted to take pills.

                        In fairness the only issue here on this forum was the immediate lack of trust, which is good compared to what I've seen before.

                        I'm not sure if this "lining" thing is the same but a few years ago in India that had a thing called a "shug", a rice-grain sized thing injected and which could be left there for years, completely reversible by removing it. Back then I was on a number of forums and the anger and hissy-fits over it were incredible.

                        While idly toying with the idea of providing some links, here's one of the first results:

                        A male birth control pill? New drug shows promise - Health - Men's health | NBC News

                        And instantly and immediately below it, we get this:

                        "Would you trust a man to take a birth control pill?"

                        As for the "It's the woman that gets pregnant" thing, yes. And it's the woman that can choose to:

                        Take the "morning after" pill
                        Abort the pregnancy later
                        Have the child and put it up for adoption
                        Have the child and dump it at a 'dropping off point'
                        Have the child and raise it, regardless if the 'father' doesn't want to be a parent (but forcing him to pay for her choice)
                        Have the child and raise it, excluding the 'father' if he DOES want to be a parent (and still forcing him to pay for her choice)
                        Have the child and raise it, including the father

                        Now if men had THOSE choices THEN I would find it less offensive if immediately told I'm untrustworthy to use contraception...

                        This should be something that both sexes embrace with glee, yet so often it seems to spark nasty arguments. It really does seem to me that women cling to this as "their" area and get positively snarky at the idea of MEN actually having control of their own parenthood.

                        Jus' an observation.



                        AC

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Blackcatbone View Post
                          I'd love to see a show of hands from the women who've been with a guy who's said something along the lines of "Come on baby, I hate condoms, I promise to pull out on time" or any other excuse that is a pretty good indicator that a whole lot of men are less serious about their contraceptive methods when the opportunity for sex arises.
                          *raises hand*

                          At sixteen. Yeah, good times.

                          Also, abortion, adoption, parenting...yes, those are all just super-duper awesome and are totally good alternatives to asking a dude to wrap it up if you're not sure he's being honest about whether he's had a shot/snip. Retroactive actions are always so much better than preventing the problem to begin with. And access to the morning-after pill is not exactly reliable. I was once in a situation in my 20s when it was a holiday and only a couple of pharmacies in town were open, and the one I went to had a pharmacist who exercised his right to "conscience" to refuse to sell me Plan B. I had to drive 45 minutes to get it--thankfully I owned a car or I might have been SOL.

                          Seriously, you want to avoid getting a woman pregnant, cool, get the shot. Do you trust every woman to be telling the truth when she says she's on the pill? I would be the answer is no given your rant about women's list of choices (the statement that women force men to do things around parenting is telling as to your ideas about women's trustworthiness around reproductive choices). If you don't want some woman to force you to pay for child support, then get the shot, but if she wants you to wrap it up too, then grow the fuck up and wear a condom. You don't trust her, that's obvious from your statements, so why do you expect women to just trust you?

                          I'm in the fortunate position to have a partner that I can trust, and we make reproductive choices together, but people don't always have sex with monogamous partners they trust on that level, and in those circumstances, believing someone when they say "I'm on the pill/have had the shot/am sterile/don't have any STIs" is just plain stupid regardless of gender.

                          So nope, I don't trust that all men will be honest about this stuff. I don't trust that all women will be either. If you do, then you're pretty naive about human nature.
                          “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                          Owly's Journal

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                          • #43
                            Let's go back to the original comment that got you riled up.

                            Just so you know -- I would never trust a male who tells me that he's got birth control covered. So long as I'm the one getting pregnant -- I'll take responsibility for myself, thank you. You can take whatever pills, shot, surgery you like, I'll always look after myself and never trust another.
                            I'm going to assume that this is a more casual relationship than anything longer term, because if you aren't having honest conversations with your long term partner about this kind of thing you have bigger issues than who's responsible for birth control. As for women agreeing with it, hell yes, I agree. And I agree with Canio as well, any man in a casual relationship who takes a woman's word that she's using BC is an idiot. Doesn't necessarily mean either party is being malicious, but people can get stupid when it comes to sex.

                            This should be something that both sexes embrace with glee, yet so often it seems to spark nasty arguments. It really does seem to me that women cling to this as "their" area and get positively snarky at the idea of MEN actually having control of their own parenthood.
                            And you seem to be completely misinterpreting women's aversion to male BC. It has NOTHING to do with men controlling their own parenthood (except for maybe in a few neurotic women) and everything to do with being able to trust that it will work and the man that they're sleeping with has done everything correctly and is telling the truth. Let's say, just for argument's sake, the male implant is available, you have it done and a month or two later have sex with a woman you either just met or don't know all that well. You tell her that you have the implant and don't need to worry about birth control. Should she trust you? Now reverse the roles, should you trust her if she says the same? If you answer yes to either scenario then you're an idiot. Now let's say you're in a long term/committed relationship and you both decide that the implant is the best method of contraception. You have it done, she knows you've had it done, maybe you even had it done before you met, but you know each other well enough to believe each other. Should she trust it as a form of birth control? Yes, I think she should, if she agrees that it's effective enough. But that's the thing, it's a matter of trust, and people who had out their trust too easily get burned.
                            Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                            • #44
                              See, that's exactly the abusive and defensive mind-set I mentioned.

                              Also, abortion, adoption, parenting...yes, those are all just super-duper awesome and are totally good alternatives to asking a dude to wrap it up
                              No, those are super-duper awesome alternatives to 16-20 years of child support, the emotional drain of thinking about a child you (statistically likely) are not allowed to see (hard to forget when still paying for them for years) and the crippling effect losing such a chunk of your future income can have on having children later that you DO want.

                              I've seen it happen to too many guys.

                              Likewise this is something I noticed before - whenever a guy speaks up in favor, he gets attacked as though HE is somehow the problem, can't get laid, hates women or some other such slur. In other words, you attack the messenger?

                              Ironic.

                              My "rant" about women's choices was simply pointing out the disparity in those choices, considering the man's choice is "Go along with whatever the woman chooses, by law".

                              Before you spout any more offensive insults towards me, I'm happily married, have been for over 8 years now and we're actively hoping for children, but hey, whack me around the head with some more stereotypes while you're at it?

                              Like I said, sheesh.



                              AC

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by AlanC View Post
                                Now if men had THOSE choices THEN I would find it less offensive if immediately told I'm untrustworthy to use contraception...
                                I agree with you but despite all those options available to women all a man has to do is move across statelines and yay, no child support, no responsibility, no worries...at least for him. That said, for the very reason that men are denied what I call 'second choice' I support men taking care of their own contraception. Both sexes get first choice 'Do I want to sleep with this person." Only women get second choice "Huh, wtf do I do now that I am pregnant?" Men are denied that. All the more reason for a dude to be sure he wont impregnate anyone he doesn't want to.

                                As for trust, eh, yeah, it blows that as a guy women won't trust us. Perhaps there is a good reason for that. I'll be honest, when it comes to sex, I trust women about as far as I can throw them. If you have seen one dude trapped into fatherhood you have seen too many (I am not saying this happens all the time or often, but seeing it once was enough for me). So Sally McBarChick doesn't believe I had the contraceptive polymer stuff? Fine, I don't trust that she isn't carry Gonaherpasyphalitis. Also, I am sure as heck not going to believe her when she says, "Sure, I took the pill, uh, yeah, every day." Screw that noise.

                                tl;dr sex has far too many expensive complications to take anyone's word for their contraceptive use - outside of a longterm, committed relationship.

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