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Hooray!!!! Hostess Brands closing for good

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  • #46
    First off, when there is a union in a given industry, even "non union shops" benefit as the wages they have to pay are higher.
    That just means the price of the product goes up, meaning more people will shift towards other products or classes of products. You see the problem isn't if the union does or doesn't have enough power to force management to pay them more, the problem is that they cannot force or threaten the consumer into paying more.

    So saying 'Even if only some are in the union, prices go up' is NOT a positive.

    Secondly, where is the power balance when workers don't have the right to come together as a group to balance the power in labor negotiations?
    I'm not sure I see the "balance" when dozen, hundreds or even thousands of workers gang up on the owner or management team?

    You also seem to be confusing the real world with some kind of kindergarten 'fairness' factor. Again, consumers don't care. Where's the "balance" between a little tiny company like Hostess, and the human population of Planet Earth?

    It's about pleasing that population, ie the consumers, not just your secondary school teacher.

    I'm sure the unions did a great job of convincing the workers that the company was bluffing, things weren't really that bad, the company was only closing down a dozen plants because... what? They were "greedy"?

    Still, what a victory brothers and sistas, y'all closed down the company and lost your jobs in the middle of a recession. Way to go unions! That learn it them!

    United (and unemployed) forever!



    AC

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Lynna View Post
      And another
      BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.
      But that's o.k......
      It's the union's fault.
      Let's not cloud the issue with facts.
      Great posts Lynna.

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      • #48
        People talking about upper management raises fail to understand it is a drop in the bucket compared to the half billion paid to union employees.
        Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
        Starting Weight: 294 pounds
        Current Weight: 235 pounds
        Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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        • #49
          Well, I will say there's nothing cool about 18,500 families potentially losing a breadwinner right before the holidays. Unions are dying a slow death, while fat F#$%s like Trumpka keep rollin' in dough. The dues payers suffer when it all blows up, not the top guys. They'll still be dining at the White house. When enough business has fled mandatory union States they'll drop those laws as well, the Feds can only subsidize unionized industry for so long. Oh, and the NLRB can suck a fat baby's D!6K...... if there was ever a waste of a bureaucratic organization that was it. Talk about perpetuating the corporatist BS....
          Went Primal: 20 DEC 2011
          Starting: 6'1" 220 lbs
          Starting Energy: "bleh...."
          Current: 183 lbs @ 8.33% BF (Jackson/Pollock 4 caliper method)
          Current Energy: "WOOHOO!" See my journal HERE.

          "Paleo? Try it, but be wary of the cult mentality that comes with it. Paleovangelists are everywhere and a bit scary."

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          • #50
            I am just bummed there won't be another chance to have one of those raspberry coconut ball things. I think I only had one one time. They were always hard to find. And sad no more fruit pies and ding dongs. Must learn to make primal versions of these things.

            P.S. I think Bimbo Bakery can take up the slack with their knock-offs.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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            • #51
              1.) Hostess products likely aren't going anywhere if they liquidate, sell the recipes or the entire company is bought out and moved to Mexico, Canada, China, etc. Don't rejoice or mourn just yet.

              2.) This quote is in regards to taxation, but you can replace taxation with wages, benefits, etc. from employers and it's still relevant:


              In view of what they hear from the experts, the people cannot be blamed for their ignorance and their helpless confusion. If an average housewife struggles with her incomprehensibly shrinking budget and sees a tycoon in a resplendent limousine, she might well think that just one of his diamond cuff links would solve all her problems. She has no way of knowing that if all the personal luxuries of all the tycoons were expropriated, it would not feed her family—and millions of other, similar families—for one week; and that the entire country would starve on the first morning of the week to follow .*.*.*. How would she know it, if all the voices she hears are telling her that we must soak the rich?

              No one tells her that higher taxes imposed on the rich (and the semi-rich) will not come out of their consumption expenditures, but out of their investment capital (i.e., their savings); that such taxes will mean less investment, i.e., less production, fewer jobs, higher prices for scarcer goods; and that by the time the rich have to lower their standard of living, hers will be gone, along with her savings and her husband’s job—and no power in the world (no economic power) will be able to revive the dead industries (there will be no such power left)." -- Ayn Rand

              3.) Of course Ayn Rand would support the right to (voluntarily) unionize, but any true Objectivist would never condone the government enforcing arbitrary demands by regulation, force, or violence, nor would they agree with the state forcing you to participate in a union membership. To the dismay of many, employers do not owe you a thing. I know, shocking. You voluntarily enter in to an agreement for compensation for your labor. If the wage isn't enough, or the working conditions are unbearable, it's your right to reject the offer as it's the right of the employer to reject your demands. Let's not confuse voluntary relationships with forced labor.

              4.) The majority of Union bosses are making fortunes while workers are used as pawns in a game that only they can lose. Unions are proxies to use bullying tactics on employers. Unions are essentially legal gangs of thugs. Much like government, which they collude with to monopolize industries. Why do people believe it's their right to essentially shake down their employer? That's immoral. Oh, your boss is immoral? That's why there's other jobs or becoming your own boss.

              5.) Ever stop and think about WHY we constantly need to increase our wages/earnings? Why our cost of living is going up rapidly but our incomes aren't? I suggest you educate yourself about The Federal Reserve, inflation (the silent tax), and stop supporting (voting for your enslavement) a system that is designed to use the people as pawns in a wicked game of monopoly. You can shake down your employer until they close up shop, but know about your cream before you make cheddar.
              | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

              “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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              • #52
                Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                I suggest you educate yourself about The Federal Reserve, inflation (the silent tax), and stop supporting (voting for your enslavement) a system that is designed to use the people as pawns in a wicked game of monopoly.
                This is basically it in a nutshell.

                People need to be blaming The Fed for their poverty and not their employers.

                If it weren't for The Fed, an entire family could live off of the income of a single person earning a minimum wage, and live well.

                The only reason people are feeling squeezed and need to protest for higher wages is because The Fed is actively destroying the value of those wages in order to pay off fat cat bankers and corrupted politicians.

                I should also mention the lack of competition for big business thanks to their partnership with government.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Grok View Post
                  Originally posted by Grok View Post
                  those were beautiful tributes

                  i just wanted you to know that
                  beautiful
                  yeah you are

                  Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                  lol

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                  • #54
                    Its quite hilarious how a thread about _twinkies_ turned into a bunch of libertarian retards talking nonsense again <3

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Nekron View Post
                      Its quite hilarious how a thread about _twinkies_ turned into a bunch of libertarian retards talking nonsense again <3
                      When you can't refute points; demean and insult the posters
                      Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                      Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                      Current Weight: 235 pounds
                      Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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                      • #56
                        Implying there is a point to refute.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Lynna View Post
                          It wasn't necessarily over the workers demanding more money.


                          The contract Hostess wanted to impose on BCTGM workers includes:

                          -- An immediate 8 percent wage cut.

                          -- Shifting 20 percent more of health care costs onto the workers (for some workers, this would mean an increased cost of $240 a month for medical insurance).

                          -- Eliminating retiree Medigap insurance, which covers gaps in Medicare.

                          -- Eliminating Pension Supplement to pay health and funeral costs.

                          -- Closing an undisclosed 10 to 12 plants.

                          -- Eliminating the eight-hour day, which would mean no time-and-a-half pay after eight hours per day.

                          In addition, the company illegally froze pension contributions mandated under the contract for all of 2012, in violation of federal law. This is still being contested before the National Labor Relations Board.

                          Also Hostess went through 7 CEOs in the last decade, some executives got raises up to 80% in 2011.
                          Bingo! Had nothing to do with the unions and everything to do with vulture capitalism. Companies "invested" in Hostess, saddled them with that debt then sucked out as much capital as they could, making sure they got paid, then left Hostess to pay the bill. Same way Romney made his money.
                          Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                          • #58
                            beautiful
                            yeah you are

                            Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                            lol

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Nekron View Post
                              Its quite hilarious how a thread about _twinkies_ turned into a bunch of libertarian retards talking nonsense again <3
                              I don't find anything comical about the brutality statists impose on other human beings.
                              | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                              “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Grok View Post
                                This is basically it in a nutshell.

                                People need to be blaming The Fed for their poverty and not their employers.

                                If it weren't for The Fed, an entire family could live off of the income of a single person earning a minimum wage, and live well.

                                The only reason people are feeling squeezed and need to protest for higher wages is because The Fed is actively destroying the value of those wages in order to pay off fat cat bankers and corrupted politicians.

                                I should also mention the lack of competition for big business thanks to their partnership with government.
                                +1
                                Live your life and love your life. It's the only one you get.

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