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  • #16
    Originally posted by justyouraveragecavemen View Post
    Don't get me wrong, unions helped make our country what it is today.
    Yep, unions have caused more unemployment and the bankruptcy of more companies and industries than any social group in the history of mankind.

    Unions have completely destroyed this country, and you're right, unions helped turn our country into a third world nation of impoverished and bankrupt citizens.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
      A statement from the company states it's the union's fault. I wonder what an independent audit of the financials and internal documents would prove.
      It would prove that it's the unions fault.

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      • #18
        72% of Obama Job Creation in Right To Work States

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        • #19
          "Right to work" states are another idea that I can't wrap my head around. I've heard people say it's an attack on democracy to be a right to work state. What's undemocratic about allowing folks to not join a union? Isn't a RTW state more democratic that a...what's the opposite of a right to work state? What do you call that?
          If I just said LOL, I lied. Do or do not. There is no try.

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          • #20
            Its really sad that they couldn't have diversified and started producing healthy products instead of having a ton of people lose there jobs.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by justyouraveragecavemen View Post
              "Right to work" states are another idea that I can't wrap my head around. I've heard people say it's an attack on democracy to be a right to work state. What's undemocratic about allowing folks to not join a union? Isn't a RTW state more democratic that a...what's the opposite of a right to work state? What do you call that?
              I think you meant to say "what's democratic about allowing folks to not join a union?"

              Right to work doesn't prevent you from joining a union, it simply means that the state can't force you into joining a union.

              In states that are not right-to-work, if you work in a unionized profession you are required by law to join that union and pay union dues.

              In a right-to-work state you are free to join unions and are free to have union protests etc., the only difference is that there is no force of government used to force workers into the unions.

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              • #22
                The flip side is right to slave states. First off, when there is a union in a given industry, even "non union shops" benefit as the wages they have to pay are higher. Secondly, where is the power balance when workers don't have the right to come together as a group to balance the power in labor negotiations?

                Even Ayn Rand, if you read her stuff with a clear mind rather than a biased one, believed in unions, just not unions that made unrealistic demands. If you've got a $20-100M CEO and CFO who've done nothing to improve the business, blaming unions is bullshit pure and simple.
                "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                B*tch-lite

                Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                  The flip side is right to slave states. First off, when there is a union in a given industry, even "non union shops" benefit as the wages they have to pay are higher. Secondly, where is the power balance when workers don't have the right to come together as a group to balance the power in labor negotiations?

                  Even Ayn Rand, if you read her stuff with a clear mind rather than a biased one, believed in unions, just not unions that made unrealistic demands. If you've got a $20-100M CEO and CFO who've done nothing to improve the business, blaming unions is bullshit pure and simple.
                  Nobody is arguing against the right to unionize, that's basic free speech.

                  The problem lies with the government using force to compel people to join unions and pay union dues.

                  Where is the morality in using violence?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                    If you've got a $20-100M CEO and CFO who've done nothing to improve the business, blaming unions is bullshit pure and simple.
                    It turns out 4 out of the 5 top executives were being paid $1/yr.

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                    • #25
                      If you believe in the corporate hierarchy, I'm surely not going to change your mind. $1 executives are rarely getting $1 once you factor in bonuses, stock options, etc.

                      As to unions, the unions in this country have been so de-balled since Reagan that I'm surprised any even exist anymore.

                      This company has already filed for bankruptcy twice. You won't change my mind that it's because workers want more money.

                      And that's fine. Sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don't. No big and it's all good.
                      "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                      B*tch-lite

                      Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by sed777 View Post
                        Its really sad that they couldn't have diversified and started producing healthy products instead of having a ton of people lose there jobs.
                        You mean come up with a reasonable solution to a problem? Be rational and try to fix the problem? Don't be ridiculous. It is so much more fun to point fingers and complain about the other guy. And regardless of how healthy it is, it is horrible for those people who lost their jobs. People suck sometimes.
                        You know all those things you wanted to do: You should go do them.

                        Age 48
                        height 5'3
                        SW 215 lbs
                        CW 180 lbs (whole foods/primal eating)
                        LW 172 lbs
                        GW 125ish lbs

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                        • #27
                          This also won't put a stop to the Twinkies and all the other rot either. Some other purveyor of fine junk food will by the brands and keep the crap rolling out.
                          http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Daemonized View Post
                            This also won't put a stop to the Twinkies and all the other rot either. Some other purveyor of fine junk food will by the brands and keep the crap rolling out.
                            Yeah, it will be cheaper to make them in China and ship them overseas then it will be to pay American unionized labor.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Grok View Post
                              Yeah, it will be cheaper to make them in China and ship them overseas then it will be to pay American unionized labor.
                              And they will be able to slip in some mislabeled toxic waste that they have lying around as an added bonus.
                              http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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                              • #30
                                I heard they are going to put the Twinkie recipe up for sale? We should gather our change together, buy it, and burn it.

                                I'm not sure a real Twinkie would burn, but the paper copy of the recipe will.
                                sigpic
                                Age 48
                                Start date: 7-5-12
                                5'3"
                                121lbs
                                GOAL: to live to be a healthy and active 100


                                "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
                                Henri Frederic Amiel

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