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Polyamoruous Love Sickness: Can This Be Primal?

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  • #61
    Been there, done that. Realized after the damage was done that it was because I was unhappy.

    The emotional affair turned 'love affair' left me dried up and even worse off than before. It took me a long time to come to terms with 1. ruining my first marriage (even though things were not good by any means) and 2. being used up - used up to make someone else who was unhappy make themselves feel better about themselves.

    Sure it's love? Not just lust? Not just because something is lacking in your marriage? Sure her attraction isn't because she needs someone to make her feel better?

    Get counseling, or better yet, start some meditation and serious introspection as to what's going on in your head/life/marriage to make you feel this way.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by jpatti View Post
      You were hoping though. And that she says her feelings are similar means... you are playing with fire here.

      You are posting to a bunch of strangers, and telling us that you've got kindling spread throughout your living room, and you soaked it in gasoline, and you've lit a match, but you would NEVER actually burn your house down.

      This is teenage girl stuff: that the feelings are overwhelming and you're just "swept away" by it all. You can't help yourself. I can see the same drama on an episode of the Vampire Diaries.

      And just like a teenage girl who gets "swept away" by her feelings, you're in serious danger of ruining your life.

      You will badly hurt your wife, you will hurt your children, you will hurt the OW's children and you'll wind up alone anyways. Cause if the OW has a lick of sense, she doesn't want another cheating bastard in her life, so starting a relationship there is pretty much going to doom it.

      So... put the damned matches down... or let yourself be swept away because you couldn't help it.
      I was all ready to get all indignant on OP's behalf, and then I thought about it some more, and remembered some girls I knew in high school and college, and then I thought some more about the story the OP is telling, and then I realized that this person named jpatti seems like she is pretty smart and might understand pretty well what is going on here...
      Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

      My Primal Journal

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      • #63
        good god, "odds and ends" is turning into a real soap opera lately.

        you know that we endeavor to eat like cavemen, not act, look or justify our lives by them?
        Here to eat and move like a caveman, not look or stink like one

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
          I was all ready to get all indignant on OP's behalf, and then I thought about it some more, and remembered some girls I knew in high school and college, and then I thought some more about the story the OP is telling, and then I realized that this person named jpatti seems like she is pretty smart and might understand pretty well what is going on here...
          Maybe. Maybe very, very accurate. But also we should remember how amazingly awesome it was to feel ALIVE and passionate and have FEELINGS when we were teenagers. I think to gain back some of that intensity in an otherwise humdrum existence would be pretty intoxicating and addictive. Perhaps I'm projecting, but I feel sympathy for the OP. He's trying to be ethical and respectful in a situation where his emotions are driving the bus. It feels real, hyper-real to him.
          I like badgers, books and booze, more or less in that order.

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          • #65
            OK, in an effort to make this less of a soap opera and more relevant to MDA, I'm wondering why, if the seed-spreading theory is the primal motivator here, why all the emotional baggage?

            There are many women I could screw with no strings attached. Really, hooking up is effortless these days and the most attractive women seem the most eager. If sex with OW were the destination, I'm sure taking the long way around.

            So assuming I'm not that unique, what, in a primal/tribal setting, would be the reason for such strong feelings of attachment for multiple women? If there's not a "reason" for a man to have these feelings, they wouldn't exist.

            There is an update to the soap opera part as well. Turns out wife has known all along and understands more than I expected.

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            • #66
              There is an update to the soap opera part as well. Turns out wife has known all along and understands more than I expected.
              Your wife is great to be so understanding.

              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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              • #67
                Originally posted by LordPistacchio View Post
                So assuming I'm not that unique, what, in a primal/tribal setting, would be the reason for such strong feelings of attachment for multiple women? If there's not a "reason" for a man to have these feelings, they wouldn't exist.
                I don't know that it makes sense to try to figure out all logical reasons for the vast array of human emotions.. but I'll take a shot here. This woman, being such close friends with you and your wife, is part of your tribe/your family. Part of the love you feel for her is the natural extension of your caring and concern. But there is a romantic element here too.. because she is attractive (i assume) and a woman and this sort of thing often stems from being in close interactions over time with the opposite sex.

                I don't think anything here is really surprising. Very dangerous to your longterm happiness though. Don't assume this won't destroy your marriage, even if you do not have sex with this woman.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                  I think that that is a meme that serves to minimise female sexuality.

                  It may or may not be true. I don't think it is.
                  Originally posted by Chaohinon View Post
                  Word. It's simultaneously insulting to women that they have lesser sexdrives and/or that having a slower sex-drive is necessarily a good thing.

                  It's also insulting to men that we'd be stupid enough to believe it.
                  I don't want to turn this thread into a debate or an argument, however, i do need to clarify that I NEVER implied that women have lower sex drives. In fact, I've posted multiple times on other threads that I, personally, have an incredibly high sex drive. However, I personally am not driven to satiate that desire with multiple partners, as is MORE COMMON for men.

                  I've read quite a few scientific papers over the years on the differences in reproductive and sexual psychology between men and women (something I'm really interested in). This isn't me plucking an idea out of my ass, it's a pretty well researched and studied area. No, not ALL women or ALL women fit this pattern, but it is a generality that applies to many.

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                  • #69
                    I don't think humans are gorillas.

                    Sex at Dawn | Melissa McEwen on food anthropology, economics, and culture

                    And we seem to have some biological reasons for monogamy: Semen during pregnancy | Melissa McEwen on food anthropology, economics, and culture

                    In other words, I don't really believe the whole "men are made to be promiscuous and women aren't" argument. It may be biologically feasible, but we're searching for optimal, and what our ancestors found out to be the best through a long time of trial and error.

                    I still think you're scaring yourself too much. Have you never been "just friends" with a girl before in your life?

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Pebbles67
                      Holy Crap! You told her? Brave man.

                      Just know, I totally "get" where you are coming from.
                      Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                      Your wife is great to be so understanding.
                      I think because the focus has been on the relationship with OW I've failed to convey what a wonderful relationship I have with my wife. We have almost no friends left who are still in their first marriage and know all too well how much damage poor communication causes.

                      So when I told her that I was thinking of seeing my counselor again and she asked why...I couldn't lie. She would have seen through it anyway. I was worried it would hurt her, not that I'd be in the doghouse. I just had to promise to keep it in my pants and work on getting my head straight. And avoid getting liquored-up in front of the fire with our cute friend.

                      And, Pebbles, I think you do "get it", and it's a comfort to not be alone.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Jer37208 View Post
                        good god, "odds and ends" is turning into a real soap opera lately.

                        you know that we endeavor to eat like cavemen, not act, look or justify our lives by them?
                        You know, there might be a soap opera flavor to some of this, but, besides sleep, one of the most neglected aspects of what is espoused as "Primal" is the social. Interpersonal relationships are damn complicated and when they go wrong can be painful and damaging on several levels. I honestly think that addressing issues like this is far more beneficial from a Primal perspective than how many eggs someone has for breakfast.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                          Well, if you know you are making really stupid generalizations... don't?

                          You are talking about individual personality differences not sex differences.
                          Fraid not. There are sex differences in how jealousy is typically manifested (it's robust and has been replicated--See David Buss on jealousy), and within each individual there's obviously variation.

                          So don't say "stupid generalisations" until you know what you're talking about

                          (prediction: you try to poison the well)

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Sabre View Post
                            Fraid not. There are sex differences in how jealousy is typically manifested (it's robust and has been replicated--See David Buss on jealousy), and within each individual there's obviously variation.

                            So don't say "stupid generalisations" until you know what you're talking about

                            (prediction: you try to poison the well)
                            Except that what you are talking about doesn't work across the board for all members of the same sex.
                            I've taken plenty of psych classes, and communicated with to plenty of psychologists on sex/gender issues for research...
                            My own cousin holds a PhD in psych... while generalizations can be handy (research, some analysis), they can also be dangerous (application to everyday life and expectations placed on real people). There is a reason for the saying "not all of the people, all of the time". There is a significant portion of the population that lies outside of the standard gender markers that they self identify with when it comes to matching sex.

                            Not all women respond with typical feminine responses.
                            Not all men respond with typical masculine responses.
                            There are responses that fall in between, and responses that occur opposite to sex.

                            Of course... there are always those that prefer reductionist theories.
                            I have seen work by both male and female researchers that falls victim to such confirmation bias.
                            Last edited by cori93437; 10-10-2012, 09:16 AM.
                            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by badgergirl View Post
                              Maybe. Maybe very, very accurate. But also we should remember how amazingly awesome it was to feel ALIVE and passionate and have FEELINGS when we were teenagers. I think to gain back some of that intensity in an otherwise humdrum existence would be pretty intoxicating and addictive. Perhaps I'm projecting, but I feel sympathy for the OP. He's trying to be ethical and respectful in a situation where his emotions are driving the bus. It feels real, hyper-real to him.
                              Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm sure OP's feelings are genuine, but in remembering past experiences I realized how incredibly easy it is to idealize and obsess over a woman--ESPECIALLY an unavailable woman--who isn't really deserving of the devotion, and who plays on your emotions for the attention/validation. It happened to me several times before I met my first serious girlfriend, who WAS deserving of such devotion, being generally awesome, and who, lo and behold, later became my lovely wife.

                              All I'm saying is the OW could easily be one of "those" women, but it's impossible for us to know given we are only getting a limited amount of information from one perspective, and certainly not a neutral one at that. I definitely empathize with the OP and wish him the least possible suffering in what I know is likely an intensely painful and gut-wrenching emotional trial.

                              OP, I'm glad to hear you chose "the straight and narrow" and are working things out with your wife. I hoped you would, and I'm very happy to hear that she is reacting well. Good luck!
                              Last edited by Uncephalized; 10-10-2012, 09:36 AM.
                              Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                              My Primal Journal

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by LordPistacchio View Post
                                The thought and energy that I put into my wife and children are the things that drew OW to me. I'm not sure she's really witnessed that from a man toward a woman before.
                                LordPistacchio--

                                To me, this quote is key to what might be going on here, to understanding what might be driving your attraction to the OW, and, ultimately, to resolving the issue.

                                Things we know:

                                (1) The OW picked a real jerk of a guy to get married to.

                                (2) You are not a jerk. OW is learning from you that not all guys are jerks. Some guys are rather nice.

                                (3) I might be going out on a limb with this one, but I'm going to say it: you like being held up as the non-jerk representative of the male gender, and this is a big part of what's in this for you.

                                Your wife on the other hand doesn't need your help to know that guys aren't all jerks. She already knows that. Knew that a long time ago. That's probably why she picked you--a good guy--in the first place. Your wife doesn't need you to rescue her from the less than savory aspects of the male gender. She's rescued herself. And that, clearly, is no fun. It makes your wife a great partner. It makes your wife someone whose genuinely capable of intimacy. It makes your relationship with your wife relatively drama free (look, you've survived being married all these years). But clearly you like the drama a little bit. If you want to really figure this out I'd look into that.

                                Meanwhile know this: women who need your shining example to show them all guys aren't jerks can be fun but they don't make great partners in the end. You deserve better, you deserve your wife.

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