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If Odds & Ends was a country

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
    I'm trying to figure out what I think by writing down my thoughts and examining people's responses to them.
    This is one of the smartest things I have "heard" anyone say in a long time.
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

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    • #92
      If Odds and Ends were a country I would renounce my citizenship in it and emigrate to somewhere, anywhere else.

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      • #93


        A new, 18-minute mini-documentary follows the journey of Irina, a 23-year-old liberal, Jewish New Yorker who voted for Obama in 2008. Yet as her connection to Israel has grown, and she has learned more about the President's policies across the Middle East and towards Israel in particular, Irina has come to realize that "when the chips are down," the President may not "have Israel's back" as he says.
        Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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        • #94
          And why should one terrorist country be supported over another?
          In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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          • #95
            Central banks <3 war.
            | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

            “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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            • #96
              Quote by James Carville: Ideologies aren't all that important. What's im...
              Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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              • #97
                Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                Yes. This. He's confusing anarcho-communism (and dozens of other things, apparently) with voluntaryism.
                Actually, if we're definining terms, what you're calling "anarcho-communism" is the real anarchism formulated by people like Bakunin and Goldman.

                A lot of it has been appropriated by right-wing think tanks to roll back democratic checks on money power.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                  Actually, if we're definining terms, what you're calling "anarcho-communism" is the real anarchism formulated by people like Bakunin and Goldman.

                  A lot of it has been appropriated by right-wing think tanks to roll back democratic checks on money power.
                  to roll back democratic checks on money power? I have a challenge for you, read the book "Throw Them All Out"
                  Throw Them All Out: Peter Schweizer: 9780547573144: Amazon.com: Books


                  Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                    Actually, if we're definining terms, what you're calling "anarcho-communism" is the real anarchism formulated by people like Bakunin and Goldman.

                    A lot of it has been appropriated by right-wing think tanks to roll back democratic checks on money power.
                    Nature invented anarchism. People didn't evolve with collectivism (enslavement) in their DNA, that was learned behavior over thousands of years. Anarchy is the most natural state known to existence. I know some will argue that tribalism is natural to humans, but the difference is whether it's a voluntary community for survival and companionship and family or compulsory and against the will of those in the tribe, which is unnatural and stressful.
                    | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                    • Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                      Nature invented anarchism. People didn't evolve with collectivism (enslavement) in their DNA, that was learned behavior over thousands of years. Anarchy is the most natural state known to existence. I know some will argue that tribalism is natural to humans, but the difference is whether it's a voluntary community for survival and companionship and family or compulsory and against the will of those in the tribe, which is unnatural and stressful.
                      I guess you should go let all those New Guinea highlander hunter-gatherers know that they're totally not paleo because they subjugate their women into doing all the manual labor and live in a perpetual state of warfare with neighboring tribes, each of whom will murder any member of the other on sight if caught outside their territory. Oh yeah, and they can't leave and go "pick another tribe" or "start their own tribe", because all of the usable territory is already occupied by people who will murder them if they try to leave, and the only way to be part of a different in-group is to be born into it. Or possibly to be traded into it as a wife (probably not by choice!) during highly ritualized inter-tribe meetings. What an awesome, totally voluntarist society, amirite?

                      This notion that hunter-gatherer societies don't "naturally" have rules and laws, enforced (sometimes violently) by authorities, or that they are ruggedly individualistic rather than communalist, etc. is made up. There's plenty of injustice, prejudice, xenophobia, violence, coercion and lack of freedom in a "paleo" society. This doesn't make them a whole lot better or worse than modern societies, socially speaking (although our in-groups tend to be much bigger and include a lot more territory we can freely move about in). Which shouldn't be too surprising, since we're all pretty much the same in instincts and mental abilities, so why shouldn't we behave similarly towards each other?

                      Now, I'm certainly not claiming that these people are unhappy living this way--quite the contrary, I think. This is the way they have learned is the correct way to live, and who am I to say otherwise? But having been brought up in a modern nation-state with very little worry about being shot in the back with an arrow while out hunting for birds' eggs for breakfast, I think I'll keep my place in this horrible, oppressively violent modern democracy where my actual risk of dying violently or at a young age due to disease or injury is orders of magnitude lower than it would be living in the primitive state. And I'll keep modeling my life on my ideals of non-violence, freedom, rational discourse and application of scientific principles, and hope that's enough to shift the world a little closer to what I'd like it to be in my lifetime, rather than advocating throwing away all the progress we've made over grueling centuries of incremental improvements--along with our fair share of setbacks and blunders--in favor of any kind of utopia, socialist, anarchist, or otherwise.
                      Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                      My Primal Journal

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                      • Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                        Nature invented anarchism. People didn't evolve with collectivism (enslavement) in their DNA, that was learned behavior over thousands of years. Anarchy is the most natural state known to existence. I know some will argue that tribalism is natural to humans, but the difference is whether it's a voluntary community for survival and companionship and family or compulsory and against the will of those in the tribe, which is unnatural and stressful.
                        "Anarchy" means "no state". Yes "the state" is something that grew over time. But anarchists were largely collectivists who wanted to dismantle the state. That didn't mean they wanted no government, they saw a distinction that I think you're missing.

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                        • Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                          "Anarchy" means "no state". Yes "the state" is something that grew over time. But anarchists were largely collectivists who wanted to dismantle the state. That didn't mean they wanted no government, they saw a distinction that I think you're missing.
                          Well technically it means "no ruler" but it amounts to pretty much the same thing.
                          Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                          My Primal Journal

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                          • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                            I think I'll keep my place in this horrible, oppressively violent modern democracy where my actual risk of dying violently or at a young age due to disease or injury is orders of magnitude lower than it would be living in the primitive state. And I'll keep modeling my life on my ideals of non-violence
                            Unfortunately you contradict yourself here.

                            Your "oppressively violent modem democracy" that you give credit for your low risk of dying violently, comes at the expense of all the countries your government is waging war on. The thing is, its not even necessary to kill all those people halfway across the world to maintain and lengthen your life expectancy. It's simply all you know and you can't be bothered to think about peaceful ways to exist, accepting the violent status quo is just convenient for you.

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                            • Originally posted by DamienMaddox View Post
                              Unfortunately you contradict yourself here.

                              Your "oppressively violent modem democracy" that you give credit for your low risk of dying violently, comes at the expense of all the countries your government is waging war on. The thing is, its not even necessary to kill all those people halfway across the world to maintain and lengthen your life expectancy. It's simply all you know and you can't be bothered to think about peaceful ways to exist, accepting the violent status quo is just convenient for you.
                              You, you, you...


                              Games the government idiots play... I don't think Uncephalized has any control over.
                              Do you think he should go stop them, all by himself?

                              Perhaps YOU should...
                              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                              • Originally posted by DamienMaddox View Post
                                Unfortunately you contradict yourself here.

                                Your "oppressively violent modem democracy" that you give credit for your low risk of dying violently, comes at the expense of all the countries your government is waging war on. The thing is, its not even necessary to kill all those people halfway across the world to maintain and lengthen your life expectancy. It's simply all you know and you can't be bothered to think about peaceful ways to exist, accepting the violent alternative is just convenient for you.
                                Or maybe I have thought about it, quite a bit, and would prefer to work on not committing international acts of violence, or oppressing our own citizens at home, while still maintaining the general structure of law and democracy? The fact (and I do believe it's a fact) that we can have an advanced, wealthy and non-violent society at home, without waging offensive war abroad, is what gives me hope for further improvement in future.

                                There are a hell of a lot of things I would change about the way our system works if someone gave me access to the levers of power, don't get me wrong. Waging any kind of offensive or preemptive warfare is probably the biggest one, followed closely by our horrible local practice of prosecuting people for "crimes" that are non-violent and/or victimless. Throwing away the whole idea of government and law, however, is not one of the changes I would make--I think that would end up being a trade most people would regret.

                                I would also whole-heartedly support experimentation in radical changes, though. I'd love to carve several big, geographically-diverse chunks of North America off and let volunteers go try and build a purely voluntarist society there (the current inhabitants might not appreciate it, though). If it turned out to work well I'd even more there in a heartbeat. But I'm not willing to risk the whole enchilada to find out, KWIM? If the experiment went badly we would lose so much ground it might take millennia to recover socially.
                                Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                                My Primal Journal

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