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Is there really a nutritional need for fruits and vegetables?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
    I'm on the fence
    Wow, off the fence already!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
      Wow, off the fence already!
      lol! So this thread has inspired me to go back zero carb. Will start after my last 2 gallons of raw milk are gone and gives me time to finish that jar of peanut butter and the dark chocolate bars. Read my latest journal entry if your interested. I'm not cutting dairy out however, keeping my beloved kerrygold butter, will be eating cheese and drinking heavy whipping cream. I need to maintain my calcium levels
      Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
      Before and after pics
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
      Primal Sucess Story
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
      Primal Journal
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

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      • #33
        In all seriousness, though, humans evolved across a wide spectrum of habitats, so it seems a bit naive to assume that they had access only to what is available in a very specific part of the northern hemisphere.

        Also, there is a big difference between surviving and thriving. Sure, small groups of isolated humans survived eating diets solely of animals foods, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have benefitted from a greater variety in their diet if it was available to them.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
          In all seriousness, though, humans evolved across a wide spectrum of habitats, so it seems a bit naive to assume that they had access only to what is available in a very specific part of the northern hemisphere.

          Also, there is a big difference between surviving and thriving. Sure, small groups of isolated humans survived eating diets solely of animals foods, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have benefitted from a greater variety in their diet if it was available to them.
          I absolutely agree with everything you said except the need for variety, although they would eat what was available. The inuit are a prime example of thriving group on a minimalist diet. I don't know if you read the recent study about the genetic mutation that allowed the people in Africa to branch out and eat vegetable, but it cause serious inflammation for them.
          Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
          Before and after pics
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
          Primal Sucess Story
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
          Primal Journal
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
            In all seriousness, though, humans evolved across a wide spectrum of habitats.
            Oh really? I am happy. At least one of the "militants" (the right word? or better "inverted vegans"?) graduated during the last hour from kindergarten.
            Last edited by anna5; 09-23-2012, 10:23 AM.

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            • #36
              This is from the same article I mentioned earlier:

              b. A Sailorís Rations


              A sailorís rations were made up of the supplies brought on board the ship in port. A typical weekly ration for a sailor included[317] :

              1 lb. of biscuit (hardtack) daily

              2 lbs. of salted beef twice weekly

              1 lb. of salted pork twice weekly

              2 oz. of salted fish three times weekly

              2 oz. butter three times weekly

              4 oz. cheese three times weekly

              8 oz. dried peas four times weekly

              1 gal. of beer daily


              In addition, sailor rations were sometimes augmented by raisins, dried pears, dried apples, and barley meal.[318] In all, a sailorís rations were in excess of 4000 calories per day.[319] However, the combination of a lack of fresh fruits and vegetables, onion, potatoes, etc. left the diet almost completely void of vitamin C.[320] However, experts have noted that sailors often ate better than what they would have if they had been ashore.[321] This was cause by a combination of the regular supply of meet, access to foreign fruits and vegetables, and the relative poverty of most of the sailors in the navy.[322]

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              • #37
                Originally posted by anna5 View Post
                Oh really? I am happy. At least one of the "militants" (the right word? or better "inverted vegans"?) graduated during the last hour from kindergarten.
                Militant in what way? And what on earth is an inverted vegan? A vegan doing a handstand? I'm not vegan, nor can I do handstands, terrible sense of balance.

                Your attempts at unprovoked insults continue to make no sense. Keep them coming, they're a riot!!!

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                • #38
                  Sorry, I was wrong. I am out. Let me know when this graduation takes place.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BennettC View Post
                    I absolutely agree with everything you said except the need for variety, although they would eat what was available. The inuit are a prime example of thriving group on a minimalist diet.
                    they are also consuming animals that are not available to most people, and they consume parts of the animal that extend way beyond the typical muscle meat that most people have access to and consume.

                    From wikipedia:
                    "In particular, he found that adequate vitamin C could be obtained from items in their traditional diet of raw meat such as Ringed Seal liver and whale skin (muktuk).

                    I seriously doubt you are planning to supplement your vegetable+fruit-free diet with generous servings of raw whale skin, and I have no idea how the nutritional profile of raw Ringed Seal liver compares to the standard factory-raised cow liver (or pastured liver, if you're lucky enough to have access to it), but I'd bet that it's not the same. Plus, it's important to note that since vitamin C is detroyed when heated, you would have to be consuming whatever your source of vitamin C is raw.

                    I'm definitely not an expert on the inuit diet, but from my cursory research of it, I've gathered that just because they don't cultivate plants, they do traditionally gather and preserve berries, tubers, grasses and seaweed, which indicates that there IS a need for some non-animal foods in their diets, and it seems they take advantage of these non-animal foods as much as possible.
                    Last edited by BestBetter; 09-23-2012, 11:20 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Steffanson notes in the book that wild berries were plentiful in summer months. They didn't even eat them, only the white men did
                      Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
                      Before and after pics
                      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
                      Primal Sucess Story
                      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
                      Primal Journal
                      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I feel better when I eat veggies vs. when I don't. I eat vlc almost all the time now, but when I tried zero carb, I didn't feel as good as I do on even my extremely small amount of carbs. Is it the carbs, or the nutrients I'm getting? Hard to know, but there is definitely a correlation to veggie consumption and me feeling better.
                        "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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                        • #42
                          eat zero carb for a while. go all stefansson. then eat fruits and vegetables and tubers for a while. decide which makes you feel happier and better, and perform happier and better. eat that way. i think i'm giving up on trying to convince people that carbs and fruits are fine and delicious and not a detriment to health. go ahead and live life both ways, and do what you like! i have a feeling you'll meet a piece of fruit again, some time down the road.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by jakey View Post
                            eat zero carb for a while. go all stefansson. then eat fruits and vegetables and tubers for a while. decide which makes you feel happier and better, and perform happier and better. eat that way. i think i'm giving up on trying to convince people that carbs and fruits are fine and delicious and not a detriment to health. go ahead and live life both ways, and do what you like! i have a feeling you'll meet a piece of fruit again, some time down the road.
                            glucose and fructose are both deadly. ive eaten my fair share of fruits, vegetables, and tubers. particularly when I first went paleo on leren cordain's version because I was told to. Fruit and tubers make me feel like shit, why would I eat something that I know can so rapidly laid down as body fat, forming glycated proteins while I eat it? vegetables, well I don't like those and they irritate my digestive tract. meat and fat make me feel good, getting back to basics is what this about for me. lately ive reintroduced a few things to my diet, I can feel insulin rising and my hunger goes up. I never feel better after eating a huge ribeye slathered in butter
                            Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
                            Before and after pics
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
                            Primal Sucess Story
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
                            Primal Journal
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I will say my goals happen to be much different than most peoples on here though.
                              Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
                              Before and after pics
                              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
                              Primal Sucess Story
                              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
                              Primal Journal
                              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by BennettC View Post
                                glucose and fructose are both deadly.
                                Bennet, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you are wrong here. Glucose is a fairly benign energy source for people who are not metabolically deranged (i.e. on the path to diabetes-ville). A healthy body is not damaged ingesting glucose. Furctose is worse, but even there I think that cellular fructose (i.e. fruit) is fine to eat in moderation.

                                Also, reading between the lines of your posts, when you cut out carbs you seem to be replacing them with protein. Don't do that. Replace the carbs with fats.
                                Last edited by magicmerl; 09-23-2012, 03:13 PM.
                                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                                Griff's cholesterol primer
                                5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                                Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                                TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                                bloodorchid is always right

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