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Small victory in convincing BF, advice needed please!

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  • Small victory in convincing BF, advice needed please!



    After watching me shamelessly eat fat for nearly a month and experimenting for a few weeks with lower carb on his own, my boyfriend is finally coming around to PB. Last night, he said to me 'So on this diet of yours, you can really eat bacon?' YUP! And, after a month of begging him, 'baby, please eat a egg yolk' (strangely, he'll eat 12-18 egg whites at a time and still be hungry LOL) I made him cheesy eggs with 6 whole omega-3 eggs!


    So, now that I have his attention, I really need to know what to tell him.


    He's very tall and muscular - 6'5", 260 lbs, estimated 12% bodyfat. He works out 4 or 5 days a week, first thing in the morning, usually has coffee and some Kashi cereal before hitting the gym (but has commented recently that he feels sick after eating dry cereal - yay!) Since he has a fantastic amount of muscle, he'd like to keep that and focus on getting leaner.


    I know there are a ton of resources on MDA and a ton of experienced PBers in the forum, I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction for him. Specific focus would be on workout nutrition. Hope that makes sense, any questions, please ask, and thank you!!!

    "One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well." -- Virginia Woolf

  • #2
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    Anyone? :-/

    "One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well." -- Virginia Woolf

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    • #3
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      I'm not really sure what you mean by "specific focus would be on workout nutrition."

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      • #4
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        I guess I'm not clear what you're asking. Is there some reason he shouldn't just focus on eating to satiety on primal foods?


        It's possible (but by no means certain) that he'll need a few extra grams of primal carbs per day to fuel his workouts. That's something he'll have to experiment with.


        With continued, appropriate (not overzealous) workouts and plenty of protein (1g/lb of bodyweight according to Rob Wolff), sufficient calories (bump them up with extra fat if necessary) and the right amount of carbs for his goals (see Mark's carb curve), he should be off to a good start.


        The rest is details. He'll need to observe and tweak over time according to how he looks, feels, and performs.

        Nightlife ~ Chronicles of Less Urban Living, Fresh from In the Night Farm ~ Idaho's Primal Farm! http://inthenightlife.wordpress.com/

        Latest post: Stop Being Stupid

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        • #5
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          Sorry, I mean I don't know what he should be eating before or after his workouts.


          He's been eating mostly very lean proteins, with some grains-based carbs around his work out, the rest of his food is usually more lean protein and a BAS. Since he needs to eat so much (3600 calories or so to maintain), I want to be sure I'm steering him in the right direction. What range of carbs should he be aiming for?

          "One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well." -- Virginia Woolf

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          • #6
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            What kind of workouts is he doing?

            Nightlife ~ Chronicles of Less Urban Living, Fresh from In the Night Farm ~ Idaho's Primal Farm! http://inthenightlife.wordpress.com/

            Latest post: Stop Being Stupid

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            • #7
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              I'm sorry for the confusion and for not really knowing how to ask things! He does some light cardio to warm up then lots of heaving lifting, usually a different area/body part each day.


              He seems to be very sensitive to grain-based carbs and is starting to get carb-phobic. A few days ago, he told me he had some cereal before going to the gym and felt so jittery and sick from it that he couldn't do his leg workout. I don't know if I should suggest having a banana or sweet potato instead or if eating nothing would be better. Because it's early morning, waking up eating then waiting isn't much of an option.

              "One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well." -- Virginia Woolf

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              • #8
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                Well, there seems to be various approaches to eating habits when it comes to primal, so its just a matter of him working out what works for him. Since he works out quite a lot make sure he eats enough calories to support it. Reducing carbs gradually might be a good idea so his body gets time to adjust and he won't get burned out when his glucose stores are suddenly depleted (can imagine it could scare him off if his performance suffers). Be sure to get him hooked on some primal treats :P (you mentioned bacon yourself).

                As a specific reply to "workout nutrition", i don't know if it's CW that a post-workout shake boosts gains and recovery, but they can be pretty primal AND tasty so it's a win/win either way; if he's into shakes let him continue with em. Personally L O V E making shakes with whey/coconut milk/fruit/(honey/cocoa powder). Hope I said something useful

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                • #9
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                  I agree with Panda that a gradual shift to lower carbs (but an immediate shift to all-primal carbs) will help with the performance dip that typically accompanies the low-carb transition in athletes. Also, be sure he's aware that his performance will almost certainly suffer for 2-4 weeks, after which it will go back to normal and possibly better.


                  Basically, he can construct his macros thus, if you want to take the nerdy route, which is quite unnecessary in most cases:


                  How many carbs should he consume to fuel his activity and meet his goals? Say he needs 100g. At 4 calories per gram, that's 400 calories in carbs.


                  How much protein does he need? If we go with Wolff's recommendation (for both fat loss and muscle building), he needs 1g per pound of total bodyweight, so that's 260 grams. At 4 calories per gram, that's 1040 calories in protein.


                  We're now at 1440 calories. You say he typically maintains on 3600 calories, so that leaves another 2160 calories he'll need to get from fat (2160 cals at 9 cals/gram = 240 grams).


                  Obviously, that's really really generalized and rough, fails to take into account all the specifics of his metabolism, etc. Paradoxically, it's also way too specific for most people's needs. Almost everyone can eat to satiety on quality, primal foods and do just fine. But it's a place to start.


                  Depending on who you ask, he'll need to drop the cals a bit to lower bodyfat via creating an energy deficit. Others say the hormonal effect of going low-carb will change his body composition all by itself. I say it's mostly the latter...unless he is the kind of eater who doesn't stop with "enough" and instead packs in loads and loads of extra food.

                  Nightlife ~ Chronicles of Less Urban Living, Fresh from In the Night Farm ~ Idaho's Primal Farm! http://inthenightlife.wordpress.com/

                  Latest post: Stop Being Stupid

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                  • #10
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                    Tell him his recovery rate will improve dramatically.


                    The only thing that might turn him off is the loss of all the water weight and bloat in muscles... his muscles will "deflate" a bit but will be much harder and denser.


                    Post workout eat a piece of fruit and a protien (a shake would be ok I guess if he's bb'ing) then a half hour later eat a meal of meat and veggies.

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                    • #11
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                      I believe that for an athlete it's 1g of protein per lb of LBM (lean body mass.) Which, for him, would be 228.8g of protein a day. Just wanted to clarify.


                      Going over this page might help him/you:

                      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/defin...l-eating-plan/

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                      • #12
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                        Yes, many sources say 1g protein per pound of LBM. I was citing Rob Wolff, who recommends 1g per pound of TOTAL bodyweight.


                        I used that number because it appears the OP's SO works out quite hard and is very concerned about losing muscle mass.


                        If, however, fat loss matters most to him, he could certainly go with the lower protein recommendation.


                        Either is likely to work pretty well, and only he can fine-tune it.

                        Nightlife ~ Chronicles of Less Urban Living, Fresh from In the Night Farm ~ Idaho's Primal Farm! http://inthenightlife.wordpress.com/

                        Latest post: Stop Being Stupid

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                        • #13
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                          I don't think he's the right guy for you. Imo you should break it off before it's too late.

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                          • #14
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                            Pandadude that shake sounds delicious, I may have to try it!


                            Arthurb999 ~ Thanks for the tips!


                            Hes been trying lowering his carbs and is noticing the difference. Unfortunately, hes not replacing them with fat as much as he should


                            BarbeyGirl ~ Thank you for your detailed response. From my own limited experience, I agree the content of the food rather than the calories tends to have the biggest influence. (That said, I'm still a geek who loves numbers.)


                            Since he's more comfortable eating higher levels of protein, Rob Wolff's recommendation is probably best for now, especially since hes used to aiming for a minimum of 300 gram/day.


                            I'm unclear on if should fat be included in pre/post workout nutrition? I've not worried about this for myself as I haven't tackled weights in a long time, but in the past, I've avoided fat post workout in favor of lean protein and simple carbs. Maybe this is a silly question, but, is it dangerous to have for example fruit & lean protein w/o fat? Or should he have some sort of fat with it?


                            Also, what, if anything, is recommended for him to eat before working out?


                            Again, my apologies for being so neurotic, but after working hard to convince him of so much CW b.s., I want to be sure I give him the best information I can.

                            "One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well." -- Virginia Woolf

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