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Is it time to put a muzzle on free speech?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by parakeet View Post
    First of all, I do not believe for one second that this had anything to do with a video. This was a coordinated attack on the anniversary of 9/11. The propaganda that is being spun by the media is ridiculous. Really, what makes more sense? A video that was released 6 mo. ago by an Isreali citizen living in the US, or an attack on the anniversary of the biggest terrorist event ever?
    Which, by the way, I also believe we will see similar attacks in the future if we continue to make excuses and allow these heathens to carry out their will on us.

    Again I ask, Nady, where does it end? Where do we draw the line in the sand and send a message that we will not tolerate the harm or murder of American citizens?
    This video wasn't released by an Israeli citizen. Actually there is no Jew in sight. The main "actors" are two Egyptian-American Coptic Christians and American Christian fundamentalist/neo-Nazi?
    Last edited by anna5; 09-15-2012, 08:28 AM.

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    • #62
      Maybe those other countries should just ban youtube. Or maybe they need some free speech of their own.
      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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      • #63
        Put a muzzle on free speech? More like time to ratchet up a few notches..
        If these folks are going to go off in such a dizzy anytime someone makes fun of them, let's light em up.

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        • #64
          FFS we had riots today in SYDNEY, other side of the world. Who the f#ck was their audience meant to be? Some friends of mine in the emergency services were injured. Who were they angry at? A private citizen posting a video any citizen is entitled to post, half a world away? Aggression for the sake of aggression. Nonsense. If you hate our culture here so much you feel the need to hold up the city and attack our police over what someone did a world away, go back to your own culture. Then you can froth as much as you want about a youtube clip. Morons.

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          • #65
            A little OT, I know, but there does seem to be some hypocracy with the super-religious violent extremists. After the fact, it came out that one or more of the planning meetings for 9/11 was held here in my town. Not too weird until you realize I live in freaking Las Vegas.

            Seriously?

            There's honestly nothing here, save for gambling, 24/7 alcohol and chicks with hardly any (or no) clothes. That's where you stay to plan your assault on those sinful Americans in other parts of the country??? I'm calling BS.

            Okay, back to topic.
            Durp.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by kenn View Post
              Playing the victim card now?
              because I want to discuss? I don't deserve to be called names for seeking information. I've learned a lot over the last 45 years and most of that was from people willing to exchange ideas without judging.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Nady View Post
                because I want to discuss? I don't deserve to be called names for seeking information. I've learned a lot over the last 45 years and most of that was from people willing to exchange ideas without judging.
                Few people are name calling, they (majority) are calling you on your bs, you think it's name calling, however, it isn't. (

                You want to discuss with people that agree with you it seems. Everyone judges the sooner you accept it, the sooner you can actually debate things in an open environment that exchanges ideas (a step up from discussing), not having various viewpoints in agreement with yours.

                Hopefully you'll be more open to debating things here in the future. It is an eclectic mix of people that does offer interesting viewpoints whether you agree with them or not.
                Last edited by kenn; 09-15-2012, 08:47 AM.
                Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                Current Weight: 235 pounds
                Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by kenn View Post
                  Few people are name calling, they (majority) are calling you on your bs, you think it's name calling, however, it isn't. (

                  You want to discuss with people that agree with you it seems. Everyone judges the sooner you accept it, the sooner you can actually debate things in an open environment that exchanges ideas (a step up from discussing), not having various viewpoints in agreement with yours.

                  Hopefully you'll be more open to debating things here in the future. It is an eclectic mix of people that does offer interesting viewpoints whether you agree with them or not.
                  You don't even know what I think~ you're just guessing based on what I've posted. It wouldn't be much of a discussion if everybody agreed, would it? As far as a 'debate', not really interested, debating suggests there's a winner position and that's not appropriate to this topic.

                  I firmly believe in free speech as well as personal responsibility. I have observed, unfortunately, that they don't necessarily go hand in hand.

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                  • #69
                    I have the right to say whatever I want to whoever I want. If any organization tries to put any form of limit on that, I will gladly defend my right by any means, including violence. I am a living being, not a subject of government. The idea that you need the government to tell you what you can and can't say is ridiculous.
                    "All of God's creatures have a natural habitat... my dinner plate." -Me

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                    • #70
                      If I want to draw a picture of Mohammed, it's my pen. If I want to burn a copy of the Quran, well... I bought the damn thing. If I want to shout from the hilltop (or post a video on youtube) that "Islam is an evil religion!", it's my inherited right as a living being.
                      "All of God's creatures have a natural habitat... my dinner plate." -Me

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Nady View Post
                        You don't even know what I think~ you're just guessing based on what I've posted. It wouldn't be much of a discussion if everybody agreed, would it? As far as a 'debate', not really interested, debating suggests there's a winner position and that's not appropriate to this topic.

                        I firmly believe in free speech as well as personal responsibility. I have observed, unfortunately, that they don't necessarily go hand in hand.
                        I'm going on what you said and the words you chose to communicate your thoughts. Say what you mean not mean what you say.
                        Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                        Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                        Current Weight: 235 pounds
                        Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by kenn View Post
                          . Say what you mean
                          Not sure I can put things in words~ right now, I'm troubled. I believe in our freedoms and rights. They are what makes America great. BY THE PEOPLE. I don't believe government should monitor the Internet even if it were possible.

                          But I wonder what's the resistance for intelligent people monitoring themselves? Personal responsibility. Everything written is global now. Facebook, blogs, even this forum/thread. Anyone, anywhere can read it. And take offense. Yes, that would be their responsibility, but we're talking about people who believe names do hurt, cultures where honor is more important than life. Having a right and bashing people over the head with it are not the same thing.

                          Was the video just an excuse? Of course! I'm sure some thing are universal, finding a justification for doing something you wanted to do anyway, just didn't want to be blamed. Like none of us have ever played the *look what you made me do* card.

                          I don't have any answers. The world has changed so much since I was a kid~ we didn't even have color TV! The last 20 years have just exploded with technology~ how do we handle these changes? Should we set an example of discretion? If you can't say something nice? I wish I knew.

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                          • #73
                            I am replying to the last comment of Nady. I don't like the timing of his questions, but he is right about asking them.
                            There are reasons to be concerned about the demagoguery of absolute freedom of speech and European countries correctly have some limitations. After all Europe had a different experience and who knows maybe, maybe, maybe some, many (how many? millions?) paid with their lives for American insistence of accepting hate speech. Yes, I have negative eugenics and Henry Ford, for example, in mind.
                            There is a book by Jeremy Waldron's "The Harm in Hate Speech" which I intend to read.

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                            • #74
                              The problem we now, in time of global technology, are facing is serious. In countless countries of the world there is official, promoted by clerical/secular power 24/7 hate propaganda against others ethnic, religious or national groups. The same powers silence any individual who in a far away corner isn't careful.
                              I still don't understand why there is silence about this woman illustrator in Seattle (!!!!) who drew Mohammed in support of a fellow artist in Denmark (?) and had to be swiftly carried away (with a new identity, cut off contacts) by security forces.
                              Last edited by anna5; 09-15-2012, 02:26 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Who decides what is "hate speech" and what is just uncomfortable truth?

                                When is speech against the government allowed and when is it against the common good and therefore should be banned?

                                If I say the USDA is biased and doesn't have the population's best interests at heart, is that hate speech? Is it inciting people to anarchy?

                                As much as I absolutely despise racist, sexist or discriminatory speech of any kind, it HAS to be allowed or you lose dissenting opinions of all types, and that's never good.
                                Durp.

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