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Is it time to put a muzzle on free speech?

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  • Originally posted by Nady View Post
    You really just don't get it, do you. The rest of the world is not populated by Americans! To expect them to adhere to our laws, freedoms, habits, morals, values instead of their own is damned arrogant. No wonder we have such a poor image on the world stage.
    To expect people to want to embrace liberty based ideals is arrogant?
    Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
    Starting Weight: 294 pounds
    Current Weight: 235 pounds
    Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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    • Sure, we should muzzle free speech. And take away everyone's guns. Make arbitrary decisions on what drugs are legal (alcohol) and what aren't (just about every other drug). Tell people what kind of food their kids should eat. Ban books. Require driver's licenses to vote. Tax the "sins" we haven't outlawed yet.

      Because as God as my witness, I know elected officials are smarter than I am and the laws they pass are for my own good.
      "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

      B*tch-lite

      Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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      • Originally posted by Nady View Post
        You're making a judgement based on your values, your upbringing regarding words. How do you know how other cultures react to critical words? What if what you think is a silly name, they think it's a smear on their honor? To say *words will never hurt me* isn't even true here in America. Ask anyone that's been called 'fat' all their lives.
        Yes, clearly at some point you have to draw a moral line and say that it is not acceptable to react to words with violence. If your culture says differently, then your culture is wrong.

        Just think, for 10 seconds, about the two alternate worlds we're describing. In one of them, it's considered acceptable to respond violently to insults. In another, it's not, and such outbursts are discouraged and punished. Which one of these worlds is preferable? Unless you enjoy risking your safety whenever you interact with anyone whose personality and sensibilities you don't know well (anything you say could plausibly be offensive to someone, including not speaking at all), clearly the latter is the better situation.

        You have to apply your principles equally, to everyone, otherwise you're engaging in special pleading. You can't say that it's incumbent on Americans to avoid offending middle-eastern Muslims because they have special magical feelings and their culture makes it so that they can't control their violent impulses. Bullshit. You know how often theocratic Muslims say incredibly, unbelievably offensive things about Jews, the West, and everyone they don't like? Every. Single. Day. They even make extremely offensive propaganda movies, just like this asshole did. Does that mean that if I decide to get offended and go defend my honor by shooting a bunch of Muslims, it's their fault I killed them? FUCK NO. It's mine.

        The correct reaction is condemn them verbally, and ridicule their insanity, and hope to convince more and more people over time that their way of thinking is backwards and violent and perpetuating barbarity. And stop blaming non-violent people for the violence of others.
        Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

        My Primal Journal

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        • Originally posted by Nady View Post
          You really just don't get it, do you. The rest of the world is not populated by Americans! To expect them to adhere to our laws, freedoms, habits, morals, values instead of their own is damned arrogant. No wonder we have such a poor image on the world stage.
          Ok... I'm sorry...
          But to expect us to adhere to a different set of habits, morals, and values based on the reactions of a few fundamentalists is ridiculous.

          Should we also change the way we behave in order to not get certain American fundamentalist in a fuss too?

          There are hundreds of fundamentalist groups... all with VERY different expectations of behavior.
          The behavior expected by one group could actually offend another.
          Then what?
          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Nady View Post
            You really just don't get it, do you. The rest of the world is not populated by Americans! To expect them to adhere to our laws, freedoms, habits, morals, values instead of their own is damned arrogant. No wonder we have such a poor image on the world stage.
            You are the only one who doesn't get it. Yes, I believe that extending universal and equal rights to all people, and promoting a world where violence is condemned and discouraged, where people can express their opinions without fearing for their lives, regardless of whose fee-fees might get hurt, is a WAY BETTER FUCKING WORLD than one where we systematically hand over every scrap of freedom we've achieved to appease the superstitious, violent barbarians who would as soon behead you as spit on you. The ideas of freedom of religion, expression, and association, and of freedom from violence and oppression, are ideas to be fought for, ideas to die for if necessary. It's not arrogance to condemn violence irrespective of culture. Universal, equal human rights is the only sane way to live in a global world, full stop.
            Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

            My Primal Journal

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Nady View Post
              Yeah~ but you don't live in one of those countries where honor is more important than life.
              Actually, important point here... I have a vagina.
              Therefore I have no honor... and may be killed to restore a man's "honor" in the society of which you speak...
              (Yikes, I think you do too.)

              So, forgive me if I don't rush to defend the "honor" of those men...
              Last edited by cori93437; 09-27-2012, 01:08 PM.
              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                ...I believe that extending universal and equal rights to all people, and promoting a world where violence is condemned and discouraged, where people can express their opinions without fearing for their lives, regardless of whose fee-fees might get hurt, is a WAY BETTER FUCKING WORLD than one where we systematically hand over every scrap of freedom we've achieved to appease the superstitious, violent barbarians who would as soon behead you as spit on you. The ideas of freedom of religion, expression, and association, and of freedom from violence and oppression, are ideas to be fought for, ideas to die for if necessary. It's not arrogance to condemn violence irrespective of culture. Universal, equal human rights is the only sane way to live in a global world, full stop.
                This has nothing to do with any god... but...

                A-fucking-men!
                “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                  Yes, I believe that extending universal and equal rights to all people, and promoting a world where violence is condemned and discouraged, where people can express their opinions without fearing for their lives, regardless of whose fee-fees might get hurt, is a WAY BETTER FUCKING WORLD than one where we systematically hand over every scrap of freedom we've achieved to appease the superstitious, violent barbarians who would as soon behead you as spit on you. The ideas of freedom of religion, expression, and association, and of freedom from violence and oppression, are ideas to be fought for, ideas to die for if necessary. It's not arrogance to condemn violence irrespective of culture. Universal, equal human rights is the only sane way to live in a global world, full stop.
                  Sounds good~ now, how are you going to make that happen? Oh, and do you think that's what other people/countries want and would appreciate?

                  Comment


                  • First, yes people do die from guns fired into the air. It happens here all the time because we have a large population that comes from a culture where that's normal. And people die from it.

                    Second, I don't give in to people who use violence to get what they want. Since I live in a country where freedome of speech is not only allowed but celebrated (maybe just in my circles? Apparently not everywhere), I will continue to speak truth when and where I want to. I choose not to go places where I don't have that freedom.

                    Third, I do believe that we should speak responsibly, but the minute you say that, you have to start making judgment calls as to what is responsible and what is irresponsible. We've already made some decisions that most of us can agree on, like when it comes to slander, but I don't think "upsetting others" is ever going to make the cut, and I see that as a good thing. I would hate to see restrictions on speech regarding others' rights or protests against government (ours or others). Frankly, I feel the fact that other countries' more violent citizens act out at the slightest remark is a good reason in and of itself to speak out, since their own compatriots surely cannot without worse retaliation.
                    Durp.

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                    • Originally posted by Nady View Post
                      Sounds good~ now, how are you going to make that happen? Oh, and do you think that's what other people/countries want and would appreciate?
                      Actually, they may struggle against it for a while... but much research shows that globalization via technology and such is happening and there really isn't anything that can be done to stop it.

                      The spread of ideas and more universal governing/equality is almost inevitable.

                      Besides, this whole thing really isn't about an entire people/country.
                      It's about a small fundamentalist terrorist group within a country...

                      You know... barring a full on WW where most of the world dies.
                      And those cultures don't "win" in that game either... hell, they'll be the first to be completely leveled... because they are small.
                      Last edited by cori93437; 09-27-2012, 12:43 PM.
                      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                      Comment


                      • "I will continue to speak truth"
                        Well, what if YOUR truth is only "truth" in your eyes and a dangerous , big lie in reality? I tend to run fast, very fast from those who praise their speaking of truth.

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                        • Originally posted by kenn View Post
                          To expect people to want to embrace liberty based ideals is arrogant?
                          What liberty are you talking? Liberty to be slave? Liberty to be sterilized? Why don't you check history? Liberty to be a wage slave? Always in fashion. People spend 70-80 hours a week without any ability to open their mouth and spend the rest of their time recovering - again without any ability to open their mouth (no energy). What are talking about?

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                          • Originally posted by anna5 View Post
                            What liberty are you talking? Liberty to be slave? Liberty to be sterilized? Why don't you check history? Liberty to be a wage slave? Always in fashion. People spend 70-80 hours a week without any ability to open their mouth and spend the rest of their time recovering - again without any ability to open their mouth (no energy). What are talking about?
                            What?
                            Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                            Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                            Current Weight: 235 pounds
                            Goal Weight: 195 pounds

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kenn View Post
                              To expect people to want to embrace liberty based ideals is arrogant?
                              For one thing, any country that has religion as the backbone of it's government is not going to view liberty as good. Remember, there is no 'freedom' in religion. Second, not every country in the rest of word is in the middle east~ and many have long histories of their own, including what they already consider freedoms and rights. Thinking our way is the right (only) way is arrogant. It works for us, it remains to be seen if it works for others.

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                              • Originally posted by cori93437
                                C'mon Kenn...
                                You remember "Dr. Anna" don't you?
                                From the circumcision thread...

                                Someone... accidently wrote the word "muslim" and she found us again. **
                                Because she is a troll who googles for forum threads that mention that word (Or the word Jew)all day
                                And then incoherently responds.

                                **I'm embarrassed to admit it was me.
                                But I figured she had crawled back under her dirty little bridge and disappeared.
                                I just wish there was more consistency in her persona
                                Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                                Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                                Current Weight: 235 pounds
                                Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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