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  • Detox

    Communication is a two way street. the only way we ever communicate includes making certain we agree on terms.

    de·tox·i·fi·ca·tion   [dee-tok-suh-fi-key-shuhn]
    noun
    1.Biochemistry . the metabolic process by which toxins are changed into less toxic or more readily excretable substances.
    2.the act of detoxifying.
    3.the state of being detoxified.
    4.a period of medical treatment, usually including counseling, during which a person is helped to overcome physical and psychological dependence on alcohol or drugs.

    There is a lot of talk about belief in "detox". Well belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof) is an emotional state and that tells a lot about how you view something.

    by definition number 1 we as human organisms detox any toxin that we excrete... period... if it came out (tears, sweat, piss, shit, breath) it was at some point toxic to our bodies. we also have a limit on the rate of excretion as well as the ability to excrete.

    What i am curious about is what are the definitions that skeptics attribute to the word detox.

    i am fully skeptical of the pseudo-medical use of the word detox as mush as i am the methods used to "encourage" detoxification.

    i think the common man or woman on the street somehow marries the concept of definition number 4 with number 1 and thinks they required some "snake oil" to make them clean as a whistle... bullshit except in certain cases.

    so lets the games begin. lets debunk detox
    Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

    Predator not Prey
    Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

    CW 315 | SW 506
    Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


    Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

  • #2
    I'm not sure the water in my tears was ever toxic, but yeah, detox is probably bandied about a little too often as an explanation of other kinds of adjustments the body has to make to changes.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by quelsen View Post
      Communication is a two way street. the only way we ever communicate includes making certain we agree on terms.

      de·tox·i·fi·ca·tion   [dee-tok-suh-fi-key-shuhn]
      noun
      1.Biochemistry . the metabolic process by which toxins are changed into less toxic or more readily excretable substances.
      2.the act of detoxifying.
      3.the state of being detoxified.
      4.a period of medical treatment, usually including counseling, during which a person is helped to overcome physical and psychological dependence on alcohol or drugs.

      There is a lot of talk about belief in "detox". Well belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof) is an emotional state and that tells a lot about how you view something.

      by definition number 1 we as human organisms detox any toxin that we excrete... period... if it came out (tears, sweat, piss, shit, breath) it was at some point toxic to our bodies. we also have a limit on the rate of excretion as well as the ability to excrete.

      What i am curious about is what are the definitions that skeptics attribute to the word detox.

      i am fully skeptical of the pseudo-medical use of the word detox as mush as i am the methods used to "encourage" detoxification.

      i think the common man or woman on the street somehow marries the concept of definition number 4 with number 1 and thinks they required some "snake oil" to make them clean as a whistle... bullshit except in certain cases.

      so lets the games begin. lets debunk detox
      Lucky you, if you don't have to detox to get healthy. What's your excuse for poor health?
      F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
        Lucky you, if you don't have to detox to get healthy. What's your excuse for poor health?
        Can you explain your comment?
        Last edited by quelsen; 09-14-2012, 06:13 AM.
        Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

        Predator not Prey
        Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

        CW 315 | SW 506
        Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


        Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

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        • #5
          I think there are a lot of pseudo-sci peddlers of potions out there who will sell you something toxic and then tell you that the reaction you are having to it is a "normal detox reaction". Examples, mega does of iodine, clear symptoms of iodine poisoning explained away as bromine detox. Also there is a guy on the net selling something called MMS or Miracle Mineral Supplement purported to cure everything from herpes to hangnails to cancer. It is pool disinfectant. (Not making this up.) So you take this stuff and, surprise surprise, end up in the bathroom puking and pooping your guts out. But this is good. It is "detoxifying". Yeahright.

          This is the kind of nonsense that comes to mind when the term "detox" gets tossed around.

          I do think that there are toxins that are stored by our bodies in our fat cells that may be released as we lose weight. If someone lost a LOT of weight in a VERY short amount of time, as you did Honey Badger, I can see that there might be some detox symptoms as you have described. I don't deny that those experiences are real. I just think that they are not something that is going to be experienced by the average person looking to lose 30 pounds on Primal. There would not be a big enough quantity of toxins hitting the metabolism all at once to be a problem.

          There would probably also be some variation from person to person in this depending on the health of the liver involved.

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          • #6
            I think when people hear "detox", they think laxative/diuretic based "herbal blends" that "purify" the body and "increases physical, mental, and spiritual energy". Bunch of pseudo medical woo.

            In terms of substance use, abstaining from use until the body is no longer influenced by the said substance... I agree, but this is dependent on your original biological process: metabolizing compounds and excreting them though waste products while repairing affected cells.

            I guess my point is, I agree... ...?
            "All of God's creatures have a natural habitat... my dinner plate." -Me

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            • #7
              Originally posted by joelwlcx View Post
              I think when people hear "detox", they think laxative/diuretic based "herbal blends" that "purify" the body and "increases physical, mental, and spiritual energy". Bunch of pseudo medical woo.

              In terms of substance use, abstaining from use until the body is no longer influenced by the said substance... I agree, but this is dependent on your original biological process: metabolizing compounds and excreting them though waste products while repairing affected cells.

              I guess my point is, I agree... ...?
              Don't forget the coffee enemas
              You're right, detoxing is a normal natural process that the body is fully capable of doing on its own if you just quit putting the toxic junk in.

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              • #8
                That is not what this thread is about. this thread is about finding a definition of the work Detox that we can all agree to.



                solutions for smokers are down the hall to the left. :-)
                Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                Predator not Prey
                Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                CW 315 | SW 506
                Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

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                • #9
                  I have been oil pulling for over a year...daily 20 minute swishing sessions of sesame oil. This is often touted as a detox program. I never believed the detoxification claims, but it has made my mouth (teeth and gums) healthier as confirmed by regular dental checkups.

                  Now, in the grand scheme of things, oral health correlates pretty closely with whole-body health, so maybe reducing toxins in the mouth can be called 'detoxification' when used in this context. But to think that the sesame oil is pulling toxins from the bloodstream and concentrating them in the oil to be spit out is kinda crazy.

                  Hope this helps.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have tried everything from fasting, to oil pulling, to aloe vera juice, to epsom salt baths, to activated charcoal and D. earth. I guess that means I drink the detox Koolaid. I think our body holds onto lots of toxins in lots of different ways and clean eating and avoiding modern-day poisons is the best way to be healthy, but how to rid the body of those toxins? I'm not sure what's best. How long, for example, does gluten stick around after an exposure? Do you have to "start over" when eating clean and having a cheat?

                    This is a discussion I hope others chime in on. What works? What doesn't? Is there any real way to detox the body?

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                    • #11
                      Quelson - I agree with your conclusion. As organisms we are pretty good at bad stuff in, bad stuff out. I am not sure that drinking aloe vera or the likes is going to rush this along. I must say that I haven't always felt this way - after a health battle and the surgeries I had, I did the hydrocolonic thing to rid myself of the meds. That said, didn't feel any different than before (I guess my wallet was a little lighter). Maybe this is something for Dr. Attia at NuSci?
                      Height - 5'8"
                      SW - 191
                      CW - 162
                      GW - 155

                      Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        Don't forget the coffee enemas
                        OMG! A new way to ingest coffee!
                        "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                        B*tch-lite

                        Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by quelsen View Post
                          That is not what this thread is about. this thread is about finding a definition of the work Detox that we can all agree to.
                          solutions for smokers are down the hall to the left. :-)
                          I think that was a bot gotcha there Honey Badger. see sig.

                          Originally posted by PaleoCowgirl View Post
                          I have tried everything from fasting, to oil pulling, to aloe vera juice, to epsom salt baths, to activated charcoal and D. earth. I guess that means I drink the detox Koolaid. I think our body holds onto lots of toxins in lots of different ways and clean eating and avoiding modern-day poisons is the best way to be healthy, but how to rid the body of those toxins? I'm not sure what's best. How long, for example, does gluten stick around after an exposure? Do you have to "start over" when eating clean and having a cheat?

                          This is a discussion I hope others chime in on. What works? What doesn't? Is there any real way to detox the body?
                          The body will detox itself all by itself if we just get out of our own way and stop ingesting poisons as much as is possible.

                          Originally posted by catholicchick View Post
                          Quelson - I agree with your conclusion. As organisms we are pretty good at bad stuff in, bad stuff out. I am not sure that drinking aloe vera or the likes is going to rush this along. I must say that I haven't always felt this way - after a health battle and the surgeries I had, I did the hydrocolonic thing to rid myself of the meds. That said, didn't feel any different than before (I guess my wallet was a little lighter). Maybe this is something for Dr. Attia at NuSci?
                          I think Peter is busy studying things like VLC for athletes at NuSI. That's here in SD. I wish I could go volunteer there or something.

                          Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                          OMG! A new way to ingest coffee!
                          HEHEHE. You could also set up a mainline drip.

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                          • #14
                            In my experience there are ways to unplug the drain, and ways to flush the contents thru it faster. However most of the time what i hear from the "gurus" out there who are simply attempting to differentiate themselves from the pack so as to make a quick buck is that ONE thing applied topically will cure ALL your ills ( pads on the feet etc )

                            I think what gets people is that they can SEE instant results. Anything that opens your pores will allow, theoretically, more excretion of what was at the surface anyway. Catch that on an absorbent pad or in a container of fluid and viola, instant proof that it is working.

                            However the real toxins are not in the skin per se but in the cells. the body's primary natural pathway for garbage disposal is the liver followed by the lungs. This means that the lymph is the most important pathway followed by the circulatory system.

                            Here is something to think about. the heart pumps the blood, but it is the lungs and muscles that pump the lymph. in fact the most important lymph nodes are just behind the stomach along the spine meaning that ONLY deep rhythmic breathing stimulates them....

                            SO

                            Deep breathing exercises as an adjust to your own natural detox system.... discuss
                            Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                            Predator not Prey
                            Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                            CW 315 | SW 506
                            Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                            Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

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                            • #15
                              When I was 17 or 18, my mom was into the popular detoxing method of the time. It was cheap & available. It was a day a week of fasting (or multiple days of fasting) following by an enema filled with your own urine. The guru told you that you have been clean once the beets or similar coloring substances stopped coloring your urine. Urine was supposed to be the perfect thing for enema since it has its own salts & is compatible with your body. I think the really advanced cleansers ingested it too.

                              So, whenever they say detox, I always recall that mother-daughter experience, the jars of urine in the bathroom, the enemas...

                              and I kinnda like eating clean, pooping naturally, sweating when running and going to the steam room to relax and sweat approach better.

                              EDIT: I have nothing against deep breathing either, particularly in the great outdoors.
                              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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