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  • Also, in my google searches, I found some really interesting stories:

    Two Breastfeeding women save 30 men lost at sea.

    Breast milk given to severely ill adults to ease pain and symptoms. (it includes a story of a family using breastmilk 2x week for their 15 yr old son to ease the effects of Crohn's disease, as well as an adult who treated his prostate cancer with breastmilk).

    More about Cohen, who treated prostate cancer with breastmilk -- here it says he had a bottle a day at the start, and now has 2x week

    Breastmilk used to treat cancer, arthritis, diabetes, acne . . .

    Looks like humans probably should drink human milk throughout their lifetimes.

    After all, we drink other animal milks, why not our own? Particularly when it is "made for us, by us?"

    I never had any of my own and neither did my husband, but this is some *interesting* information.

    Comment


    • weird internet hiccup creates post double!
      Last edited by zoebird; 02-02-2013, 03:46 PM.

      Comment


      • Zoebird firstly let me profusely apologise for my glib comments. If you do not like my posts please I implore you – put me on ignore. And if I am that offensive to yourself or others I will unhappily sever my connection with MDA. Just say the word!


        Secondly I mistakenly thought that you were advocating feeding a child ONLY breast milk for up to 8 years. I thought that I made this quite clear in my posts – and I disagreed with it. However sorry I obviously got that wrong, you were not advocating this.


        Thirdly I am truly impressed with you and many others on these threads with your abilities to research and add information to your posts. Sorry but this old Gwamma is quite computer illiterate and really needs to do a course in computer studies, before I can understand this process!


        Anyway and finally – and I really mean finally,
        IMO breast is best as a sole food up until about 6 months of age, however if a mother chooses to continue breast feeding until the child is 1,2,8 or 15 – good on her and her family. That is their choice and who am I to judge ?? A lot of women cannot breast feed for a variety of reasons, and I do not knock them for that. There are some great formulas out there. It is a case of doing your homework.
        IMO a baby learns through putting things in its mouth. From birth - fingers, nipples, teats, toes etc…. all go into a babies mouth. This is exploratory play which a child bases his future learning on.
        IMO between the ages of 6-12 months solids should be introduced initially as a play/exploratory thing – but continues on to a macro/micro nutrient based food source.
        If a child is not tasting, playing and exploring new foods during this important developmental time, it can have negative effects on some children, and they can become picky eaters. I say can – not a definite here, it’s a possibility.
        So IMO we need to introduce solids to the child during this time.

        I do not disagree that breast milk could sustain sailors, or colostrum milk can boost athletic performance etc...... however I am repeating - my opinions are above
        "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

        ...small steps....

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NZ primal Gwamma View Post
          Zoebird firstly let me profusely apologise for my glib comments. If you do not like my posts please I implore you – put me on ignore. And if I am that offensive to yourself or others I will unhappily sever my connection with MDA. Just say the word!
          First, I accept your apology, but the rest is pure, needless melodrama.

          There is nothing wrong with mistakes, disagreements, or even frustration.

          Secondly I mistakenly thought that you were advocating feeding a child ONLY breast milk for up to 8 years. I thought that I made this quite clear in my posts – and I disagreed with it. However sorry I obviously got that wrong, you were not advocating this.
          It was very clear in your posts that you thought I was advocating that -- which is confusing because in now 5 posts I have advocated against that.

          Instead, I clearly advocated for baby-led weaning.

          Short of that, I also asserted that there were several methods of food introduction.

          Thirdly I am truly impressed with you and many others on these threads with your abilities to research and add information to your posts. Sorry but this old Gwamma is quite computer illiterate and really needs to do a course in computer studies, before I can understand this process!
          It's not hard. Google.com, then put words into the search box. This provides a list of links. Click on the one that looks like it's waht you're looking for. Keep goig until you find it and/or you've given over too much time to it. When you find one, you basically copy the address from the browser and then paste it into a thread. you don't even ahve to to do the link creation.

          Classes are worthless. It just atkes a little autodidactic effort.

          Anyway and finally – and I really mean finally,
          IMO breast is best as a sole food up until about 6 months of age, however if a mother chooses to continue breast feeding until the child is 1,2,8 or 15 – good on her and her family. That is their choice and who am I to judge ?? A lot of women cannot breast feed for a variety of reasons, and I do not knock them for that. There are some great formulas out there. It is a case of doing your homework.
          According to the science, less than 5% of women are unable for biological reasons, and most people can't due to social pressures. This is why information and support is really important.

          In the US, only 17% of babies are exclusively (sole) breastfed to 6 months. And only 40% for the first 3 months. (source)

          To me, this is really telling. It is not that 60-83% of women are physically incapable of providing breastmilk for their babies -- but rather that there are many other pressures at play that inhibit their ability to do so.

          Also, asserting this isn't judgment. It's just a clear picture of the situation that women face due to myths, misinformation, and the lack of support that many mothers experience -- particularly when they are struggling with breast feeding and/or pumping.

          As such, I find it vitally important at this point for me to find the best method to support women as they are navigating this information. It's not about "perfection" or "everyone must be the same" but realizing that there is a health crisis for women and children in terms of this issue. In fact, it is a cultural crisis.

          When misinformation about the nutritional value of breastmilk past six months is posted, this only further entrenches this cultural situation. I think it's only fair to stand up and assert facts on the matter, rather than just opinions.

          Don't you think that is fair?

          IMO a baby learns through putting things in its mouth. From birth - fingers, nipples, teats, toes etc…. all go into a babies mouth. This is exploratory play which a child bases his future learning on.
          I agree. I never argued anything about this point, and it has nothing to do with the nutritional profile of breastmilk after 6 months, which was your statement.

          IMO between the ages of 6-12 months solids should be introduced initially as a play/exploratory thing – but continues on to a macro/micro nutrient based food source.
          If a child is not tasting, playing and exploring new foods during this important developmental time, it can have negative effects on some children, and they can become picky eaters. I say can – not a definite here, it’s a possibility.
          So IMO we need to introduce solids to the child during this time.
          This is fine, too, as it stands to logical reason (inference). It may not be all supported, but it's fair enough.

          But, it might also be noted that nothing in these statements says anything about the nutritional value of breast milk, does it? All that it states is that it can be healthy for children to experiment with food for flavor/taste development as opposed to nutrition at this age. This is no different than what I asserted in all of my posts (particularly the ones about baby-led weaning).

          My only contention is your statement that breast milk looses nutrition after 6 months so you must feed a baby from then onwards. The reality is that breast milk doesn't loose it's nutrition then (or ever for that matter), and can be used by humans through adulthood (according to the funny ones cropping up from the google search).

          Likewise, instead of an arbitrary month -- "6 months" -- I assert that we should look to readiness signs. Some children will demonstrate those signs early (6-8 months) and others late (after 12 months). But I'd much rather have it be individual-child process as opposed to a single number/date.

          And those were my problems with your statement (breast milk looses nutrition after 6 months; babies must be fed at 6 months).
          Last edited by zoebird; 02-02-2013, 06:04 PM.

          Comment


          • I am not sure why I am continuing with this but - just sometimes I will make a stand.

            Zoebird, in THE thread you attacked my original post and said……… "I hate to say it -- as much as I love Gwamma -- but she is woefully misinformed abotu breastmilk. In fact, her statement is utter nonsense and absolutely unsupported by major health organizations and science."

            Part of my original statement read……..”IMO when a child gets to about 6 months of age, to continue to grow at an optimal level, you must introduce solid foods, and this must form a major part of their diet. I am led to believe that up until about 6 months of age breast milk has all the goodies to sustain and nurture said babe, however beyond this point we need to introduce the nutrients that a child needs to survive optimally.”

            I haven’t stated that breast milk loses its quality !

            I have said that we need to introduce nutrients so the child can survive optimally.

            the thread bounced about for a bit, backwards and forwards, and now I read


            Originally posted by zoebird View Post
            My only contention is your statement that breast milk looses nutrition after 6 months so you must feed a baby from then onwards. The reality is that breast milk doesn't loose it's nutrition then (or ever for that matter), and can be used by humans through adulthood (according to the funny ones cropping up from the google search).

            Likewise, instead of an arbitrary month -- "6 months" -- I assert that we should look to readiness signs. Some children will demonstrate those signs early (6-8 months) and others late (after 12 months). But I'd much rather have it be individual-child process as opposed to a single number/date.

            And those were my problems with your statement (breast milk looses nutrition after 6 months; babies must be fed at 6 months).
            so I repeat that I have never said that breastmilk loses its nutritional value after x time. I also believe that the child should be deciding when he/she eats solid food, however if you do not offer that child a chop, or a morsel off your plate, or a piece of apple etc.... how will that child be able to make an informed age appropriate choice ? - so often the pincer grip time in their life is a really age appropriate time to give them something to eat, suck, smear etc...

            anyway I am done, I am not forcing my views on anybody - I am defending my views because they haven't been interpreted as intended.
            "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

            ...small steps....

            Comment


            • G you so are not boring! i kinda realised how much my tastes have changed today. i was making some of that paleo sriracha off nom nom paleo Paleo Sriracha | Award-Winning Paleo Recipes | Nom Nom Paleo i used a few hot chillies and a red capsicum and did a half recipe. when i got to putting the fish sauce in, i smelled it and it smelt really yummy, so i drunk some and it tasted nice!!! lmao out the bottle. so yeah. practise and maybe eating some raw kina every now and then

              i have been swimming. the ocean was so warm it was primordial even. i only had my bikini on it was that hot still so i just swum around. did my best not to stalk a shag which was chilling out on the other side of the channel lol they only taste good before they fledge but i could have wrestled the flounder it was chowing down on off it. i am, as it so happens, feeling alot less aggro. still a bit wired but nowhere near as close to the edge. so we shall see what this coming week brings. i've been still carnivoring. i have no clue how to eat all the fat we're sposed to tho. that bit is eluding me as i need real food.

              Comment


              • On of the things that I've been working on in my life is understanding and stepping out of -- as well as not creating -- manipulation, relationship triangles. So foremost, I need to call attention to that.

                Now, onto your statement. You assert that I misinterpreted it and didn't take it as you intended. So, we'll start there.

                As you quoted yourself. . .

                ”IMO when a child gets to about 6 months of age, to continue to grow at an optimal level, you must introduce solid foods, and this must form a major part of their diet. I am led to believe that up until about 6 months of age breast milk has all the goodies to sustain and nurture said babe, however beyond this point we need to introduce the nutrients that a child needs to survive optimally.”
                This statement requires no difficult or extreme-reach inferences to come to my simple statement/conclusion.

                Your statement very clearly implies that breast milk cannot provide adequate nutrition (loses nutritional quality) for infants after 6 months of age. The next statement then says that their health absolutely requires solid food after this time for optimal growth.

                And notice your verbs: must, must, and need. It's a very a strong, prescriptive statement of what must, must, and needs to happen for optimal growth.

                And you might also notice the age that you asserted twice: about 6 months of age and up until about 6 months of age. This, again, is very clearly prescriptive in terms of timelines.

                As you can see, this is not misinterpretation or falsehood on my part. If you didn't mean this statement, then it's up to you to communicate what you *intend* not for me to divine it from such a strong, prescriptive statement.

                I also stand behind my assertion that this statement is "utter nonsense." I supported that strong assertion with evidence from major, mainstream medical and public health organizations as well as lesser known individuals and breastfeeding advocacy organizations.

                But then, you change the "meaning" of your statement. Instead of needing food as a major source of nutrition at about 6 months of age, you now state:

                I also believe that the child should be deciding when he/she eats solid food
                This is very different than that a child must be fed solid food at about 6 months because they need it to meet their nutritional needs.

                however if you do not offer that child a chop, or a morsel off your plate, or a piece of apple etc....
                This has two components:

                1. it doesn't have any mention of the child's nutritional needs being met by food (as your first statement does); and
                2. the whole question is largely stylistic -- different families are going to introduce solids differently.

                At the end of the day, if you intended to say "breast milk should be the primary nutrition of infants up to one year, and you should offer solids when the baby demonstrates readiness," then you should have stated so.

                But, the statement that you did make was patently false, and it was worth refuting *in that thread* because the topic was about a family who was introducing solids to their infant while simultaneously attempting to maintain and possibly increase breast-milk supply while pumping. It is certainly not inappropriate to refute false information that might inhibit a family's success at increasing and/or maintaining the supply that they *want* in order to continue to provide breastmilk as the primary nutrition for their child -- as every major organization suggests.

                Wouldn't you agree? That it's not a personal attack, but truly refuting false information so that a family can succeed at providing breast milk for their child, as they stated was their desire?
                Last edited by zoebird; 02-02-2013, 11:46 PM.

                Comment


                • Hehe Seas, picturing you wrestling a shag! Those are wiry old birds alright. The swim sounds lovely though. We're staying away from the beach this week apparently the blue bottles are out on force and I hate that. DS gets to swim everyday at school and we've been cooling off with a waterslide here at home, so we've not been missing out too bad, but I just love the beach in summer.

                  Had a busy weekend with my residents playing up. I was called at 9pm last night after one dear old thing tried to drive her car through her neighbours bedroom window. Thankfully no one was hurt, just frazzled nerves and lots of destruction. The car was towed away and I ended up clearing up the glass inside so that they could sleep in there (they insisted even though I offered them a motel). So back again today with a glazier to board it all up until we can sort insurance and the rebuild of the wall. So much for my restful weekfend.

                  On the plus side I've sold some more nappies on TM today, so my clear out is slowly progressing.

                  Comment


                  • LOL LL!! at least the old girl still has some get up and go! or was it accidental? we get common blue stinging jellyfish out in the ocean here. we saw a whole load of them floating by last time we were out fishing. they look like disembodied eye irises floating in the sea. they vary prob from about 6" - 12" dia. the other thing we find here i am sure are those little in the wind sailor jellies on the beach. exh always used to say they were bue bottles and run around screaming lol but i always thought they were too small. the little in the wind sailor jellies have sails which are real cool. i have yet to find some washed up to check once i worked out what i think they are. they are usually on the tourist beach so i havent been for a few weeks, other than in the dark on the full moon, as it gets overrun by foreigners and townies during the day. nothing better than swimming in the sea. funnily enuf the kids have always not been that good in the pool but are doing very well in the sea. my youngest can dive to the bottom in a wetsuit in 1.5m water and she worked out how to purge her snorkel all on her own. i have always maintained you need a practical application for a skill which interests you so this is working as i think we all need to swim. i also have to say, having been way out in a fishing boat in a storm, i can see why you hear about fishermen who cant swim as there is no point out there.

                    when are you due to leave LL?

                    Comment


                    • Had a nice swim, and bought a LOT of produce today. So delicious.

                      If juicing works well for us, we can phase out frozen veg pretty much altogether, which is great (it's one of our goals in that it's 1. more fresh produce, and 2. creates less waste).

                      Also, had some time in the water today. Loved it. Looking forward tot he pool tomorrow, too.

                      Comment


                      • LOL LL I think that poor old gwamma - she might need to borrow my zimmer frame ?????
                        and seas wrestling a shag - that poor wee thing................

                        have you ever seen that naughty naughty programme totally busted ????????
                        Good lord, some of the skits are truely naughty - but some are absolutely hilarious !!!! Not sure who taped them - but guess what Gwumpy Gwandad and Gorgeous Gwamma have been doing the last half hour................ no can't guess............. watching totally busted !!!!!!!
                        "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

                        ...small steps....

                        Comment


                        • and seas wrestling a shag - that poor wee thing................
                          they bite you know so i would prob be the poor wee thing lol

                          Comment


                          • oh sorry Seas wrestling a shag - poor wee seas !!!!!!!!

                            and really - what a bloody stupid thing to do - if they bite ...... hello............... does the lift go right up to the top floor ??????????

                            actually sorry Seas what a nasty old gwamma saying such a thing. I really do need to wash my mouth out..................... I might try red wine thou ! rather than soap ! Hope thats okay !!!
                            X
                            "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

                            ...small steps....

                            Comment


                            • my gwamma used to say about washing my mouth out with soap if i swore. BTDT. wine def would have tasted better. the trick or the challenge is to get the fish without being bitten. where is your sense of adventure G?! i looked btw and the bottle work sent me is white wine. a 2011 chardonnay from the wairarapa. once the whispering dies down in the kids room, i am off out for a smoke. and no i havent had one for over a week and then some. i am celebrating in advance for tomorrow lol

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seaweed View Post
                                my gwamma used to say about washing my mouth out with soap if i swore. BTDT. wine def would have tasted better. the trick or the challenge is to get the fish without being bitten. where is your sense of adventure G?! i looked btw and the bottle work sent me is white wine. a 2011 chardonnay from the wairarapa. once the whispering dies down in the kids room, i am off out for a smoke. and no i havent had one for over a week and then some. i am celebrating in advance for tomorrow lol
                                anything naughty in that ciggy Seas ????

                                you get them off to sleep and enjoy your celebrations.
                                I shall catch you on the morrow
                                G x
                                "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

                                ...small steps....

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