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Will the world have to become vegetarian by 2050?

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  • #46
    Would it not be more economical and ethical to focus on space exploration as a means of population control?

    Exploration would include settling and terraforming
    Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
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    • #47
      quelsen is correct. Population is self regulating in nature. If we really start getting too overcrowded, a plague or something will pop up that puts this back in to order. The focus in America at least needs to be on getting our government to stop subsidizing out of wedlock/underclass births. I read an article today about a guy with 30 children from 11 different women suing to get his monthly child support (which currently amounts to a dollar and something in change per child) reduced even further because he's in prison. Nature would have killed off a good number of this man's future hoodlums if we lived in a perfect world, but they'll all grow up just fine in our modern society because the state is going to intervene and pay for their upbringing. With the reproduction rate of the productive classes at barely reaching replacement rate, this is setting up a demographic nightmare for the future.

      The solution to our problems are simple- just get out of the way and let nature run its course. But will our politicians ever let that happen is the question.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by JWBooth View Post
        quelsen is correct. Population is self regulating in nature. If we really start getting too overcrowded, a plague or something will pop up that puts this back in to order. The focus in America at least needs to be on getting our government to stop subsidizing out of wedlock/underclass births. I read an article today about a guy with 30 children from 11 different women suing to get his monthly child support (which currently amounts to a dollar and something in change per child) reduced even further because he's in prison. Nature would have killed off a good number of this man's future hoodlums if we lived in a perfect world, but they'll all grow up just fine in our modern society because the state is going to intervene and pay for their upbringing. With the reproduction rate of the productive classes at barely reaching replacement rate, this is setting up a demographic nightmare for the future.

        The solution to our problems are simple- just get out of the way and let nature run its course. But will our politicians ever let that happen is the question.
        So what you're saying is that we should revert to a complete lack of government for a while so I can go out and kill all of the stupid people.
        In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Blackcatbone View Post
          Off the top of my head . . . widely available and free birth control to whoever wants it, offer incentives like those voluntarily sterilized without having children get a free college education, eliminate tax breaks after a certain number of children (after two you get taxed at a higher rate) and so on.
          The problem is not here in the developed world, but rather in the developing world- those sort of incentives do not work when college educations are a dream for even the elites
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          • #50
            So I take it the people on this thread wouldn't support my life goal of having 100 kids and then dying in a glorious battle that will be talked about for the next 1000 years?
            In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Alex Good View Post
              So I take it the people on this thread wouldn't support my life goal of having 100 kids and then dying in a glorious battle that will be talked about for the next 1000 years?
              You'd probably be talked about more... if you just killed yourself now and posted it to Youtube.
              Cause that shit is the most likely way to have ANYONE talk about it other than the 3 people you know.
              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Blackcatbone View Post
                I watched most of it and yes, I do still agree that incentives to reduce population growth are a good idea. Yes, they will likely have to be tailored to specifically fit different cultures. And no, I wasn't assuming every woman in African had twenty babies that died before they reached adulthood. I'm seeing more people around the world becoming more affluent, which often does reduce the number of offspring, but not enough. I'd like to see negative population growth, because it isn't about space, it's about resources. As people become more affluent they buy more stuff and that stuff requires resources, of which we have a finite amount. And America, being the largest consumer of stuff for its population really needs to cut back. And as much as the population growth may be slowing, it hasn't stopped. While we're currently at about 7 billion we're expected to be between 7.5 and 10 billion by 2050.
                But 10-11 billion is the peak projection, even going out to 2100. The reason the world's population is still growing is because the countries with the short life expectancy and large family size needs to stabilise it's population by having their children live. You CANNOT solve this issue without doing that first. There's no 'quick fix' to changing population demographics from one where nearly everyone is under 15 to one where the birth rate is at or below replacement level. You have to actually have those children grow up and live to old age. The fact that you are 'adding' middle and old aged people to the population means that you *have* to increase the population before it stabilises (typically the population triples across two generations, then is stable).

                I definitely agree with your bolded bit though. America consumes a disproportianate amount of the worlds resources, and needs to live more modestly. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 50 years.
                Last edited by magicmerl; 08-28-2012, 09:58 PM.
                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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                5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
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                • #53
                  Originally posted by SCruz Carter View Post
                  The problem is not here in the developed world, but rather in the developing world- those sort of incentives do not work when college educations are a dream for even the elites
                  But that illustrates another problem with this whole theory- the world is segregated in to different cultures and populations living in different countries and continents. If India and China are driving all the population growth, then maybe India and China will have to revert to vegetarianism full time, but it won't have any effect on the rest of us.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                    You'd probably be talked about more... if you just killed yourself now and posted it to Youtube.
                    Cause that shit is the most likely way to have ANYONE talk about it other than the 3 people you know.
                    Did you not read the 100 kids part? Assuming 75% of them reproduce and there is an average of 2 kids per reproducing child then that means 150 grandchildren will hear about awesome old me fighting an eternal battle against a demonic horde in some far off realm.
                    Because, you know, the story will develop into something like that by the time the grandkids are made.
                    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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                    • #55
                      Show me 25... then I'll start listening.
                      You haven't even managed 1... you're behind the curve boy!
                      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                      • #56
                        If JP Morgan didnt stand in Tesla's way we'd all have free and unlimited energy. It's all around us. The universe IS energy. We're simply not trying hard enough to harness it for various reasons.
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                        “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                        • #57
                          Have a look at the Fukushima thread in this forum - perhaps the beginning of the end for many is on its way.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                            But 10-11 billion is the peak projection, even going out to 2100. The reason the world's population is still growing is because the countries with the short life expectancy and large family size needs to stabilise it's population by having their children live. You CANNOT solve this issue without doing that first. There's no 'quick fix' to changing population demographics from one where nearly everyone is under 15 to one where the birth rate is at or below replacement level. You have to actually have those children grow up and live to old age. The fact that you are 'adding' middle and old aged people to the population means that you *have* to increase the population before it stabilises (typically the population triples across two generations, then is stable).

                            I definitely agree with your bolded bit though. America consumes a disproportianate amount of the worlds resources, and needs to live more modestly. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 50 years.
                            I agree, absolutely. The off the top of my head post was, admittedly, referencing western cultures. Education and opportunity is probably the best way to speed the process of limiting family size and having more of them survive to adulthood. The number one thing I would do is get the church out of these places. Then allow the people themselves to figure out what they need in terms of survival and figuring out ways of assisting them.

                            How to get western cultures to cut back and live more sustainably is probably the biggest problem. The US in particular is such a throw away culture, we love our cheap/disposable goods. The idea of spending more for higher quality that will last much longer is anathema to most and our economy is based on this. The amount of pollution and waste created by clothing alone is pretty horrendous.
                            Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                            • #59
                              I hate cheap disposable goods. And I hate it that I can't put my bones and meat waste into the compost pile. And it bugs the hell out of me that meat products come wrapped in way too much plastic. Even the damn butcher wraps it in plastic and THEN in paper. WTF??? And I'm sure I'm about to be miffed as hell when my Amazon.com book arrives with one of those plastic pillows in it. Seriously? Newsflash: You can put a book in the mail and it won't break.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                              • #60
                                Oh hell yeah....

                                I used to work next door to a distribution center for Rite Aid. They had 5 or 6 enormous dumpsters for "damaged goods" that were guarded by armed guards. My co-workers were friends with some of the guards and allowed to "dumpster dive" on occasion. Here are things that got thrown out: ONE leaky laundry soap? The whole palette to the dumpster. Cases of candy, for seemingly no reason, not out of date. Entire case of toothpaste that got a crush on one end. Occasional things like cases of stuff like head phones and random electronics. Food was pretty frequent- one dented can, the whole case goes. So 90% of the stuff was usable and saleable. But it went off to the landfill after being written off as a loss. Yeah, we waste stuff.

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